Morris Invest - Update and/or Alternatives?

[Heather Johnston]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the real estate game and spoke with a Morris Invest representative yesterday.  While performing my due diligence, I found in-depth negative reviews of the company on here.  Between YouTube and stealth reading articles and forum posts, I've been lurking around the BiggerPockets 'verse for a while; the situation is prompting me to actually enter the chat.

The discussions I found were all dated, and the company seems to be doing things differently, so I'm reaching out in the hopes of getting an update.  I don't want to be a patsy in a Ponzi scheme, but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone. I'm a skittish newbie who really wants to get invested in real estate, and the kind of products Morris Invest purports to offer (full service, a mentorship-style walkthrough of the whole experience, and a tailored approach to use the resources the investor has available) is a really tempting way to get started.

Here are some things that have been different about my experience thus far (compared to the posts I found from pre-2020):
- Previous offerings: rehab units; current offerings: new builds
- Previous market: Indianapolis; current markets: Joplin, MO, Lubbock, TX and Odessa, TX
- Previous financing affiliate: Ocean Point; current financing affiliate: SDIRA Wealth
- Previous communication: bad (delayed, uninformative, and the like); my experience this week: ~10 minute delay in the scheduled phone call; very responsive via email (I received the follow-up mentioned on the call within twenty minutes of hanging up; I sent a reply with many detailed questions at lunchtime today [12:43 PM ET] and received a thorough response same day [8:05 PM], including a simplified pro forma example.)
- During our phone call yesterday, I was strongly encouraged to visit the development prior to purchase; none of the previous reviews mentioned this even as an option

Has anyone worked with the company recently, or has anyone heard of any recent engagement with Morris Invest?  Are there competitors (as in, other full service real estate investment companies) that you might recommend checking out instead?

Thank you!

- Heather

[Lane Kawaoka]

@Heather Johnston 

Back between 2012 to 2015, I was buying turnkey rentals. I intentionally steered clear of the big-name providers, you know, the ones with a massive online presence. From my research, it felt like you were just paying extra for the brand name (and implied reliability). Sometimes even an extra $5k to $20k compared to smaller turnkey providers (mom and pop house flippers).

I opted for providers who were the actual flippers, not just the marketers or brokers. This strategy got me better pricing, and I felt like I was being clever about it. Over time, I acquired five properties in Atlanta, four in Birmingham, and one in Indianapolis but it caught up with me as the real issue here is property management abuses OOS owners. I'm still on the side of having your PM not being under the roof of the TKP for a few reasons.

But as I grew and became an accredited investor, my perspective shifted. While turnkeys are a great starting point (especially for building your net worth), many accredited investors eventually transition to syndications and private placements where there is aligned interests with the GP but I would caution on working with those who have done at least 1B in assets.

Turnkey rentals are still a solid choice for starting out, especially if you're in an expensive market. I was in Seattle back then, and local properties just weren't feasible for me. Plus, with a demanding engineering job, I didn't want the hassle of managing everything hands-on and especially taking on the risk of BRRRR.

Your decision might depend on your current income and net worth. But... if you're looking to save a bit, maybe consider smaller providers over the big names. BUT if that $5k to $10k isn't a big deal for you, then go for a reputable brand for peace of mind.

[Bernard Joseph S.]

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the real estate game and spoke with a Morris Invest representative yesterday.  While performing my due diligence, I found in-depth negative reviews of the company on here.  Between YouTube and stealth reading articles and forum posts, I've been lurking around the BiggerPockets 'verse for a while; the situation is prompting me to actually enter the chat.

The discussions I found were all dated, and the company seems to be doing things differently, so I'm reaching out in the hopes of getting an update.  I don't want to be a patsy in a Ponzi scheme, but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone. I'm a skittish newbie who really wants to get invested in real estate, and the kind of products Morris Invest purports to offer (full service, a mentorship-style walkthrough of the whole experience, and a tailored approach to use the resources the investor has available) is a really tempting way to get started.

Here are some things that have been different about my experience thus far (compared to the posts I found from pre-2020):
- Previous offerings: rehab units; current offerings: new builds
- Previous market: Indianapolis; current markets: Joplin, MO, Lubbock, TX and Odessa, TX
- Previous financing affiliate: Ocean Point; current financing affiliate: SDIRA Wealth
- Previous communication: bad (delayed, uninformative, and the like); my experience this week: ~10 minute delay in the scheduled phone call; very responsive via email (I received the follow-up mentioned on the call within twenty minutes of hanging up; I sent a reply with many detailed questions at lunchtime today [12:43 PM ET] and received a thorough response same day [8:05 PM], including a simplified pro forma example.)
- During our phone call yesterday, I was strongly encouraged to visit the development prior to purchase; none of the previous reviews mentioned this even as an option

Has anyone worked with the company recently, or has anyone heard of any recent engagement with Morris Invest?  Are there competitors (as in, other full service real estate investment companies) that you might recommend checking out instead?

Thank you!

- Heather

 If you want to shop around, I highly recommend @Zach Lemaster and Rent To Retirement for turnkeys. Different markets than what you're currently looking at and reviews are consistently great. I've built a solid portfolio with them. They have everything from new builds to rehabs and offer creative ways to scale your portfolio. Feel free to reach out

[Nick Coble]

I would suggest speaking to people in the areas you want to invest. I’m in the Joplin area and could connect you with some great folks.

[Heather Johnston]

Thank you!  I hadn't looked into syndications as I thought they were only open to accredited investors (and didn't offer the same tax benefits).  I don't know what passes the muster for "sophistication," so I still may not be eligible yet; still, I'll look into that option!  Thank you for the idea!

[Chris Seveney]

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Thank you!  I hadn't looked into syndications as I thought they were only open to accredited investors (and didn't offer the same tax benefits).  I don't know what passes the muster for "sophistication," so I still may not be eligible yet; still, I'll look into that option!  Thank you for the idea!

 Heather

There are a significant number of funds and syndications that allow for non accredited investors. Most of them go through the SEC qualification process and get qualified under regulation a+. The other option is an exemption through SEC regulation d rule 506b but for those you need to have prior relationship

regulation a+ anyone over 18 can invest. 

[Heather Johnston]

Quote from @Joe S.:

If you are going to be buying a property at full market value, simply find a realtor and make offers on properties that are move-in ready. After you have your property in hand handoff the keys to a property manager that has a good reputation.

Where can I send you the discounted invoice? :-)

I'm really only interested in properties that come with some sort of warranty right now (the new constructions that I've found all have at least a one-year warranty: no maintenance costs for the first year).  This eases a lot of my fears about getting in, effectively lowering my emotional barrier to entry.  Move-in ready doesn't necessarily come with that sort of thing. 

Already having guidance for property managers lowers another barrier to entry for me.  I spent a few weeks dallying on the research of, "How to find a property manager?"  I spent another few weeks looking into how to vet them.  And that's not even counting the weeks I spent just wondering if the property management company that I rent through would be willing to take on an external contract.  (That idea I shot down because I live in a very landlord-hostile area.)  Wrapping that up into the one convenient package of full-service actually allowed me to move forward, and I've also been a lot more diligent because I haven't been fighting invisible walls.

I want to get there, but I'm not there yet.  Right now, I'm not looking for a home run, just looking for a start.  :-)

[Heather Johnston]

Quote from @Lane Kawaoka:

... house flippers

... property management abuses OOS owners.

While turnkeys are a great starting point ... many accredited investors eventually transition to syndications and private placements where there is aligned interests with the GP but I would caution on working with those who have done at least 1B in assets.

with a demanding engineering job, I didn't want the hassle of managing everything hands-on and especially taking on the risk of BRRRR.

Your decision might depend on your current income and net worth. But... if you're looking to save a bit, maybe consider smaller providers over the big names. BUT if that $5k to $10k isn't a big deal for you, then go for a reputable brand for peace of mind.

Re: flippers - 
My risk tolerance level for messing up a rental for someone depending on me (e.g., something breaks on the tenant and I can't fix it immediately) is pretty low.  I would rather spend an extra few thousand dollars to get the legal guarantee that something will be fine (e.g., new construction warranty) than worry about things going wrong.  (I worry more than I would like as it is.)

Re: PMs abusing OOS investors -
Good to know!  Thank you for the heads-up!

Re: syndications - 
@Jim Pfeifer mentioned them as well, and @Chris Seveney is pointing me towards how to get past the accreditation hurdle.  (Thank you, Chris!)  I'll have to dig more into it.  It's looking more and more inviting each time I see the word.

Re: demanding job and risk - 
Yes!  There's a reason I'm only on for short stints late at night, and I don't want my tenants to feel the brunt of that.  (I likely wouldn't; I'd be more likely to tell my boss I was taking a long lunch and would work extra late to make up for it.  ...  And no, I'm not saying that would be wise for my career.)  And BRRRRs sound phenomenal... but not for me where I'm at right now.

Re: small versus reputable - 
I'm setting pretty aggressive goals, so $5-10k adds up quickly, and I'm very aware of that.  (I also have a habit of keeping a relatively tight rein on my personal spending, so I would notice missing much less.)  However, my risk tolerance given my newness to these waters and other factors demands a bit more capital up front, and I've made peace with that.  Starting with slim margins is better than getting scared off from getting any margins at all.

I also think I'd be a bit less hesitant to go with small providers if I intended to invest nearby.  I don't.  (NYS is not exactly landlord friendly.)  Maybe after I get my feet wet.  For the time being, I don't want to be tempted to worry about the solidity of the deal.

[Steve K.]

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those? His wikipedia says he went to Portugal on a temporary visa amidst more than 2 dozen lawsuits from investors and one civil suit from the state of Indiana for violating Indiana's deceptive sales and home loan acts in real estate deals involving more than 150 properties in Marion County. This was in 2019-2020 as anyone on here from that time remembers. Anyone have any current events to share? Hard to believe that he's still just hiding out in Portugal and continuing to sell like nothing happened... strange world we live in.  

[V.G Jason]

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Quote from @V.G Jason:

Just stay out of turnkey investments. ... If you're not fit time wise to manage don't stretch yourself.

 Is your advice that if I don't have the time to manage properties myself, I should just stay out of real estate entirely?  That seems harsh.  Maybe* I need harsh, but I'd rather try (e.g., turnkey with property management support leading to thin margins) than not try and wonder if I could have made it work (e.g., not get in at all and have zero margins).

*As others in the thread have noted, I clearly do need harsh given the question I asked.  X-D

I am not trying to be harsh, I'm trying to be practical. This is PHYSICAL real estate, there's a reason banks don't want it on their balance sheet. It's not just a spreadsheet, there's tons of components to it. I would not invest in something where you are at the mercy of the people you work with; there is that to a degree in physical real estate but you can control that. In these turnkey, you have no flexibility. You're strapped. Don't play like that ever, in any realm let alone real estate. They can twist and turn anything to their favor, they sell you the house already with appreciation attached to it. Just understand the business model, you'll realize why you won't want to buy it. ****, ask them about investing in their model.

They literally make a lump sum of their money Day 1 from you, and from there can take bits & pieces. At their call- sound like a good deal? If you find 1 on you like, I'll beat it with a paper deal so you never have to worry about owning the physical risk. I'll take some cash from you, give you a 1-time interest rate, and then an APY. It's all subject to market, and conditions that are required to perform properly. Don't wait to sign up.

What you need to do is get properly assimilated-- funds, entities, market research-- then go in and research a good team there. Visit the area 1-2 times, find what fits your criteria and what you can manage afar. Not literally manage the house, but manage the people that manage your house. From there you build, maybe 1 house a year for every 1.5 years. in 6 years you'll have 4 houses. If you're leveraged, sell one 6-9 years later pay down the debts for the other 3. Have 3 debt free houses 15 years later. There's a lot work in between, but you need to commit. 

[Pam Brown]

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Quote from @Lane Kawaoka:

... house flippers

... property management abuses OOS owners.

While turnkeys are a great starting point ... many accredited investors eventually transition to syndications and private placements where there is aligned interests with the GP but I would caution on working with those who have done at least 1B in assets.

with a demanding engineering job, I didn't want the hassle of managing everything hands-on and especially taking on the risk of BRRRR.

Your decision might depend on your current income and net worth. But... if you're looking to save a bit, maybe consider smaller providers over the big names. BUT if that $5k to $10k isn't a big deal for you, then go for a reputable brand for peace of mind.

Re: flippers - 
My risk tolerance level for messing up a rental for someone depending on me (e.g., something breaks on the tenant and I can't fix it immediately) is pretty low.  I would rather spend an extra few thousand dollars to get the legal guarantee that something will be fine (e.g., new construction warranty) than worry about things going wrong.  (I worry more than I would like as it is.)

Re: PMs abusing OOS investors -
Good to know!  Thank you for the heads-up!

Re: syndications - 
@Jim Pfeifer mentioned them as well, and @Chris Seveney is pointing me towards how to get past the accreditation hurdle.  (Thank you, Chris!)  I'll have to dig more into it.  It's looking more and more inviting each time I see the word.

Re: demanding job and risk - 
Yes!  There's a reason I'm only on for short stints late at night, and I don't want my tenants to feel the brunt of that.  (I likely wouldn't; I'd be more likely to tell my boss I was taking a long lunch and would work extra late to make up for it.  ...  And no, I'm not saying that would be wise for my career.)  And BRRRRs sound phenomenal... but not for me where I'm at right now.

Re: small versus reputable - 
I'm setting pretty aggressive goals, so $5-10k adds up quickly, and I'm very aware of that.  (I also have a habit of keeping a relatively tight rein on my personal spending, so I would notice missing much less.)  However, my risk tolerance given my newness to these waters and other factors demands a bit more capital up front, and I've made peace with that.  Starting with slim margins is better than getting scared off from getting any margins at all.

I also think I'd be a bit less hesitant to go with small providers if I intended to invest nearby.  I don't.  (NYS is not exactly landlord friendly.)  Maybe after I get my feet wet.  For the time being, I don't want to be tempted to worry about the solidity of the deal.

Hi Heather.  It's going to take far more "than a few extra thousand dollars" to buy new construction and make any money. You would have a large negative cash flow (once the taxes were assessed) and have to wait years down the road to gain equity on a new build.  At least that is what my crystal ball shows combined with my experience.                                                   
Instead, you could get a good local Boots-On-The-Ground team, identify a property that looked to be in "good" move-in condition.  Get a full home inspection including a sewer scope. Then add on a Home Warranty for the big ticket items. That's my 2-cents worth :-) 

[Heather Johnston]

Quote from @Steve K.:

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those?

I dug around a bit and found there isn't much of an update (most recently updated article linked below): it seems that the Morris family is still in Portugal and purporting to be victims, some of the lawsuits have been dropped (or dismissed in part - the one I skimmed was partially dismissed because the claim didn't allege all of the elements of the asserted wrongdoings), and some of them seem to still be awaiting for Clayton to return to be able to serve him.

Clayton Morris And The Morris Invest Fraud Accusations
InvestFourMore
(Last Updated on February 17, 2022 by Mark Ferguson):
He still promotes buying out-of-state turnkey rental properties. He still lives in Portugal. He still claims innocence and shows no remorse.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Quote from @Steve K.:

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those?

I dug around a bit and found there isn't much of an update (most recently updated article linked below): it seems that the Morris family is still in Portugal and purporting to be victims, some of the lawsuits have been dropped (or dismissed in part - the one I skimmed was partially dismissed because the claim didn't allege all of the elements of the asserted wrongdoings), and some of them seem to still be awaiting for Clayton to return to be able to serve him.

Clayton Morris And The Morris Invest Fraud Accusations
InvestFourMore
(Last Updated on February 17, 2022 by Mark Ferguson):
He still promotes buying out-of-state turnkey rental properties. He still lives in Portugal. He still claims innocence and shows no remorse.

Clayton and especially his wife played the victim card from Day one.  if it was just a few properties I could understand or believe that but the scope of this , there is no way they did not know or have knowledge of what was going on and they kept on bringing new investors in that's my personal opinion. They were making millions and its hard to turn that money spigot off.  Selling everything you own and moving to Portugal is a pretty tell tail assessment of the situation and quite frankly a genius move on their part. The US investors will simply not have the time or money to chase him and if the feds or state are fine hanging his partner they probably get away with it..
there are just too many honest hardworking agents etc out there that would love to earn your business Give them a shot.

[Heather Johnston]

Quote from @Pam Brown:

Hi Heather.  It's going to take far more "than a few extra thousand dollars" to buy new construction and make any money.
...                                           
Instead, you could get a good local Boots-On-The-Ground team, identify a property that looked to be in "good" move-in condition.  Get a full home inspection including a sewer scope. Then add on a Home Warranty for the big ticket items. That's my 2-cents worth :-) 

I am running numbers, and you're right, a new construction is a fair bit more of an up-front investment than a rehab property.  The properties I'm looking at all require a 25% down payment (likely because it is a negative cash flow with anything less) and the appraisal values are higher (so I'm looking at ~$80k down payment for a new build rather than half that for a rehab), I will be visiting prior to closing and will have an inspection (preferably while I'm on site, and even though it's already "been done" and will be a duplicative cost), and I have a plan to go after the principal early to protect the cash flow later on.  I also have a long-term plan to integrate rehab properties into my portfolio; I recognize the amazing potential for returns there, I'm just not there yet.

I do want to get to the boots-on-the-ground-team level, but I recognize that I'm not there yet.  (In all honesty, I want to be on the ground level, but I'm not in an area where that's feasible, and I'm not in a position to move to where it is.)  If I don't jump soon, I likely won't at all, so I'm taking out as many barriers to entry as I can.  (I'm prone to the "jump or stagnate" issue, and I've been researching for long enough that I'm concerned my brain is starting to consider running numbers in spreadsheets progress in and of itself.)  Once I get started, I'm optimistic that I'll keep going, learning as I trip and figuring out how to do things like find good team members.  I'm still digging through the forums, so if there are any threads in particular you recommend that help me to ask the questions I wouldn't even know that I don't know to ask yet (for example, I would not have thought to ask for a sewer scope before your comment - thanks for that tip!), please share.  :-)  I appreciate the help!

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Quote from @Pam Brown:

Hi Heather.  It's going to take far more "than a few extra thousand dollars" to buy new construction and make any money.
...                                           
Instead, you could get a good local Boots-On-The-Ground team, identify a property that looked to be in "good" move-in condition.  Get a full home inspection including a sewer scope. Then add on a Home Warranty for the big ticket items. That's my 2-cents worth :-) 

I am running numbers, and you're right, a new construction is a fair bit more of an up-front investment than a rehab property.  The properties I'm looking at all require a 25% down payment (likely because it is a negative cash flow with anything less) and the appraisal values are higher (so I'm looking at ~$80k down payment for a new build rather than half that for a rehab), I will be visiting prior to closing and will have an inspection (preferably while I'm on site, and even though it's already "been done" and will be a duplicative cost), and I have a plan to go after the principal early to protect the cash flow later on.  I also have a long-term plan to integrate rehab properties into my portfolio; I recognize the amazing potential for returns there, I'm just not there yet.

I do want to get to the boots-on-the-ground-team level, but I recognize that I'm not there yet.  (In all honesty, I want to be on the ground level, but I'm not in an area where that's feasible, and I'm not in a position to move to where it is.)  If I don't jump soon, I likely won't at all, so I'm taking out as many barriers to entry as I can.  (I'm prone to the "jump or stagnate" issue, and I've been researching for long enough that I'm concerned my brain is starting to consider running numbers in spreadsheets progress in and of itself.)  Once I get started, I'm optimistic that I'll keep going, learning as I trip and figuring out how to do things like find good team members.  I'm still digging through the forums, so if there are any threads in particular you recommend that help me to ask the questions I wouldn't even know that I don't know to ask yet (for example, I would not have thought to ask for a sewer scope before your comment - thanks for that tip!), please share.  :-)  I appreciate the help!

any decent agent will suggest a sewer scope .. you need to be talking to veteran RE agents not those that represent only the seller.. but now you know.. Sewer scopes should also be done on new builds.. We have buyers in our new construction projects do them as a matter of course its cheap and then that is one less thing I have to worry about warranty wise.. I want to know as the owner builder if the sewer has a belly I call back my sub and they fix it.  on older homes its mandatory in my mind.

[Chris Clothier]

@Heather Johnston,

Wow, you jumped in with both feet and generated quite a bit of buzz for your questions!  I will leave the Morris Invest questions for the others.  I personally feel you and any one else can do better as far as picking a quality partner to work with, but that is a personal decision on your part.

As for buying a passive investment that is turnkey in terms of ease of entry, I think there are several very high quality providers in the industry including my families' company as @Jay Hinrichs pointed out.  However, I will point out that a lot of people use the word turnkey and describe it like it is a noun -encompassing and defining anyone using the word to describe their business.  That is simply not the case.  There is no definition of what Turnkey means.  It is just a popular term and generates a lot of interest. 

There are very good companies that market as turnkey providers and like any industry there are very poor performing companies as well.  There are also companies that never buy or sell anything - they simply promote and Jay mentioned several of them.  I'm not as big a fan of the promoter route as it adds financial stress to the deal, but they are obviously a needed resource in the investment community as evidenced by how much volume they do.  In the end, it comes down to how you personally connect with whomever you decide to do business with.  It does not matter if you are going the DIY route, using a provider offering a turnkey route or even invest in paper as @V.G Jason suggests.  

In the end, you need to invest in a way that makes you feel comfortable and with whomever makes you feel comfortable.   Then, when discussing it here on BP, you are going to get dozens of responses telling you how you are wrong and someone else has a better answer!  It is just part of the way the site has developed and it's been that way since 2008 when I first joined.

You have a lot of enthusiasm and are applying yourself to learn.  That is awesome.  Just be patient.  You don't need to have all of the answers on day one, but you need to fully understand the investment you are making and why before you pull the trigger.  

[Nate Marshall]

You would be better off investing in Bernard L Madoff Securities Investments. See also: Enron, WorldComm and Theranos. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Steve K.:

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those? His wikipedia says he went to Portugal on a temporary visa amidst more than 2 dozen lawsuits from investors and one civil suit from the state of Indiana for violating Indiana's deceptive sales and home loan acts in real estate deals involving more than 150 properties in Marion County. This was in 2019-2020 as anyone on here from that time remembers. Anyone have any current events to share? Hard to believe that he's still just hiding out in Portugal and continuing to sell like nothing happened... strange world we live in.  

WE are going to Portugal in November will see if we run into him :)

[Steve K.]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Steve K.:

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those? His wikipedia says he went to Portugal on a temporary visa amidst more than 2 dozen lawsuits from investors and one civil suit from the state of Indiana for violating Indiana's deceptive sales and home loan acts in real estate deals involving more than 150 properties in Marion County. This was in 2019-2020 as anyone on here from that time remembers. Anyone have any current events to share? Hard to believe that he's still just hiding out in Portugal and continuing to sell like nothing happened... strange world we live in.  

WE are going to Portugal in November will see if we run into him :)

 Give him a big hug for all of us! :)

[Account Closed]

Quote from @Steve K.:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Steve K.:

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those? His wikipedia says he went to Portugal on a temporary visa amidst more than 2 dozen lawsuits from investors and one civil suit from the state of Indiana for violating Indiana's deceptive sales and home loan acts in real estate deals involving more than 150 properties in Marion County. This was in 2019-2020 as anyone on here from that time remembers. Anyone have any current events to share? Hard to believe that he's still just hiding out in Portugal and continuing to sell like nothing happened... strange world we live in.  

WE are going to Portugal in November will see if we run into him :)

 Give him a big hug for all of us! :)

But keep you hand on your wallet while you do.

[Account Closed]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Steve K.:

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those? His wikipedia says he went to Portugal on a temporary visa amidst more than 2 dozen lawsuits from investors and one civil suit from the state of Indiana for violating Indiana's deceptive sales and home loan acts in real estate deals involving more than 150 properties in Marion County. This was in 2019-2020 as anyone on here from that time remembers. Anyone have any current events to share? Hard to believe that he's still just hiding out in Portugal and continuing to sell like nothing happened... strange world we live in.  

WE are going to Portugal in November will see if we run into him :)

@Jay Hinrichs: Someone from Portugal is very interested in your post. They clicked on your post through to my website. Since I don't have any students in Portugal, Maybe Morris Invest wants to have coffee with you?

[Nate Marshall]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Steve K.:

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those? His wikipedia says he went to Portugal on a temporary visa amidst more than 2 dozen lawsuits from investors and one civil suit from the state of Indiana for violating Indiana's deceptive sales and home loan acts in real estate deals involving more than 150 properties in Marion County. This was in 2019-2020 as anyone on here from that time remembers. Anyone have any current events to share? Hard to believe that he's still just hiding out in Portugal and continuing to sell like nothing happened... strange world we live in.  

WE are going to Portugal in November will see if we run into him :)

 I know his routine if you do want to say hi. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Nate Marshall:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Steve K.:

I thought this was going to be an update on the lawsuits. Anyone know what happened with those? His wikipedia says he went to Portugal on a temporary visa amidst more than 2 dozen lawsuits from investors and one civil suit from the state of Indiana for violating Indiana's deceptive sales and home loan acts in real estate deals involving more than 150 properties in Marion County. This was in 2019-2020 as anyone on here from that time remembers. Anyone have any current events to share? Hard to believe that he's still just hiding out in Portugal and continuing to sell like nothing happened... strange world we live in.  

WE are going to Portugal in November will see if we run into him :)

 I know his routine if you do want to say hi. 

 pass on that one..  I want to enjoy my trip not ruin it.. Got to hand it to him though he knew what he was doing to evade the long arm of civil law suits.