All Forum Posts by: Nate Marshall

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That is a fantastic question.

For more than 20 years and over 15,000 closings we had 3 wraps called due.  We fixed all three easily.

Then for the past approximate 3 years and numerous hundred closings, we have seen about 10 to 12 due on sale issues.  There are a few reasons for this: getting insurance in place improperly; inappropriate contact with the bank; one loan servicer that is looking for wraps; etc.  So, yes - there has been an increase in the percentage of wraps called due.  Still a very small percentage -- but an increase.

On each of the approximate dozen that have occurred, only 1 loan was paid off and that was voluntary since the balance was very low.  We have fixed all the rest.

I agree the due on sale clause is a risk in wraps.It is just a very small risk that can be fixed if needed.  And, all real estate transactions have risk.  Some more than others.  It is our job to manage the risk at the inception of the project.

Thanks for the info and comments.

Alan

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Good info.

I don't mean for you to talk out of class, but Pace Morby says in one of his recent videos that he is doing "table top" closings (closing outside of escrow)  "because he knows what he is doing". 

Since he, as the "leader of the pack" has announced that information, which of course influences large numbers of others to follow suit, people who don't want to spend the money for a proper close;

well . . . let me change my thought here, from asking a question to making a comment. The recklessness that trend represents and its implications are staggering.

No response necessary ;-) 

 This is a larger problem than people think. Many of the people paying

$8,800 to 12,000.00 to Pace are not even real estate investors. I have seen Pace pop up on You Tube seemingly like he wants inexperienced people. Too many people are being hurt and it is just a matter of time before a State AG or the DOJ gets involved. The "Morby Method" people have no business making a "big chunk" off of OPD (Other People's Deals)! 

I wonder how many deals Morty’s mentees actually close? 

Don I think they close quite a few  as Pace has a few things he teaches one is gater funding which is providing EM deposits for wholesalers and flippers.  Of course what could go wrong with that .. He also talks a lot about gap funding or seconds so those we know will blow up occasionally.  He has made millions personally  Just like any other national guru who hit it just right has the Utah based fulfillment companies coordinating his marketing. I suspect if I was guess he has made North of 50 mil personally and it could be closer to 100 mil over the last 5 or so years he has been doing this.. All the negative press he gets on Bp just water off of a very wealthy ducks back I am sure he could give a rip about what anyone says about him here on BP.   Guru done with right timing and right product like Sub to when rates rose is a total money maker for sure.. 

Ain't no way....Even Clayton Morris who had a much larger following than Pace grossed a fraction of that. Morris got paid $6,000 by Whalen for every house he sold. He sold about 500 so that's a gross of $3 million......No way Pace is pulling in $6,000 from his students who need $500 EMD loans.

ya I beg to differ Jim.. I worked with Armando Montelongo and Nick Vertucci and rich dad poor dad .. these guys made MILLIONS and I am very confident that Pace has made that kind of money Keep in mind he is not selling houses he is just selling information and subscriptions to his club.. Not defending him or his message .. But I know what kind of money is made in that business being a back end vendor and personal friends with  Nick and others in the industry I have also been to 2 of the different fulfillment companies in Utah These guys make so much money I know you probably dont beleive it.. But one of them had about 150 callers on their floor of their office and the other had about 600 employees.. Plus a 30 million dollar jet you dont buy those on CC and BS.  

its a fact those buying into Paces club for the 8 to 10k 90% will do nothing but Pace has retained the payments.. 

Also Rich Dad made bank I was a vendor for a few years at their monthly seminars were 100 or so investors paid 40k each to be there and that was monthly.. Now granted the cost to get the butts in the seats for the in person events was about 50% of revenue.. by the time you advertise do the first freebie event then then the 3 day work shop.. 

At Armondos and Nicks events which were 8 to 10 times a year they would have 500 folks which accounted to about 200 paying clients each at 40k.. do the math.. And then at the event they upsold them other educations and once they sold everything they could sell.. The students would come to the back of the room to buy rentals  and thats were I was at.. I would provide financing of the BRRR for their rentals.. SO we would make 25 to 40 sales in one day 8 to 10 times a month.. It was pretty wild.. Met a lot of interesting folks over the years. 

Not sure if Pace does big events like this but he certainly sells his info and his timing was perfect for SUB to  rates rose and it was a perfect pitch for him at the time.
Just like when I started in RE in 75 by 79 to 90 when rates sky rockets sub to or owner finance or wraps of our properties were 80% or more of the transactions.. One year we did 800 transactions this was buying our inventory and then selling so 400 properties.. we were in the land business this was all land.. And a ton of fun in the day.

I'm sure the guy is making money, but pulling in the kind of numbers Armando was pulling in back in the early 2,000's, no way no how. Armando was a legit mainstream household name with his show. Guy was like Property Brother's big. Today the media landscape is too saturated with all that stuff. It's been done by everyone and their brother and his following is way too small to be able to sell that many $8,000 courses to people who need a loan for an EMD.

 This https://thestrive.co/pace-morby-net-worth/ jumps into trying to sort out his actual income and net worth but even then, it's a big question mark. 

Given his history prior to all this, namely the ugly stuff in his history, I don't think there will ever be full clarity of it all because I am certain he is laser focused on obfuscating it as much as possible. 

And if in his shoes, yup, I'd do the exact same. 

Keep in mind James that if you made a "How-To-Sec8" success program, sold it for just $2,500..... You'd only have to sell 40k of those to hit $100million in gross sales. 

There is more then 1.3million sec8 rental units is US. That's selling a package to just 3% of units out there. 

Make it $5k and add a "monthly payment plan" now were talking only 20k sales to hit $100milliion..... 

Fruit for thought. 

 Yea but he ain't selling 40,000 $2,500 courses man. He's got like 300,000 YouTube subs. When you're selling paid info you're lucky to get 1/10th of a % of what people are gonna consume for free.  

And to be clear, I don't have any issue with people selling info. I just think the info he sells sucks and do not think he's made anywhere near $50M or $100M selling it.

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Don Konipol:

Quote from @Nate Marshall:

Quote from @Ken M.:

Quote from @T. Alan Ceshker:

That is a fantastic question.

For more than 20 years and over 15,000 closings we had 3 wraps called due.  We fixed all three easily.

Then for the past approximate 3 years and numerous hundred closings, we have seen about 10 to 12 due on sale issues.  There are a few reasons for this: getting insurance in place improperly; inappropriate contact with the bank; one loan servicer that is looking for wraps; etc.  So, yes - there has been an increase in the percentage of wraps called due.  Still a very small percentage -- but an increase.

On each of the approximate dozen that have occurred, only 1 loan was paid off and that was voluntary since the balance was very low.  We have fixed all the rest.

I agree the due on sale clause is a risk in wraps.It is just a very small risk that can be fixed if needed.  And, all real estate transactions have risk.  Some more than others.  It is our job to manage the risk at the inception of the project.

Thanks for the info and comments.

Alan

.
Good info.

I don't mean for you to talk out of class, but Pace Morby says in one of his recent videos that he is doing "table top" closings (closing outside of escrow)  "because he knows what he is doing". 

Since he, as the "leader of the pack" has announced that information, which of course influences large numbers of others to follow suit, people who don't want to spend the money for a proper close;

well . . . let me change my thought here, from asking a question to making a comment. The recklessness that trend represents and its implications are staggering.

No response necessary ;-) 

 This is a larger problem than people think. Many of the people paying

$8,800 to 12,000.00 to Pace are not even real estate investors. I have seen Pace pop up on You Tube seemingly like he wants inexperienced people. Too many people are being hurt and it is just a matter of time before a State AG or the DOJ gets involved. The "Morby Method" people have no business making a "big chunk" off of OPD (Other People's Deals)! 

I wonder how many deals Morty’s mentees actually close? 

Don I think they close quite a few  as Pace has a few things he teaches one is gater funding which is providing EM deposits for wholesalers and flippers.  Of course what could go wrong with that .. He also talks a lot about gap funding or seconds so those we know will blow up occasionally.  He has made millions personally  Just like any other national guru who hit it just right has the Utah based fulfillment companies coordinating his marketing. I suspect if I was guess he has made North of 50 mil personally and it could be closer to 100 mil over the last 5 or so years he has been doing this.. All the negative press he gets on Bp just water off of a very wealthy ducks back I am sure he could give a rip about what anyone says about him here on BP.   Guru done with right timing and right product like Sub to when rates rose is a total money maker for sure.. 

Ain't no way....Even Clayton Morris who had a much larger following than Pace grossed a fraction of that. Morris got paid $6,000 by Whalen for every house he sold. He sold about 500 so that's a gross of $3 million......No way Pace is pulling in $6,000 from his students who need $500 EMD loans.

Lol, they are doing "payment plans" for people...... Monthly payments. 

 I'll randomly get crap offers on my properties from idiots in his programs or whatever it is he's calling it. There are people who can't put two sentence together and he just let's um use a screen shot of one of his bank accounts. It's pretty weird. See below.

I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.

I have to agree. I was 20 when I thought I wanted to join and did join. I didn't even have $1000 saved at that time and I was really just thinking of going the regular route of going through the banks and just save up as much as I could for a down payment on my first investment home to rent out. I got the call from Pace's team and they made it really enticing to join, even for $10,000. So I put $1600 on a credit card for a down payment and then pay $500 a month until the full amount was paid off. I have yet to do my first deal, I know it takes hard work, but they made it seem easier and better than going the normal route and than what it actually takes to get your first deal or at least started. I didn't like the fact of calling up sellers just to offer sub to or seller financing. Not that those aren't great options just in case, but I just simply wanted to buy the house and rent it out on my own without jumping through hoops to get one while I am barely just starting and getting experience. A lot of the top people that help Pace, also are kind of rude when I asked questions in the group. I simply asked what questions to ask sellers and one of them commented for me to simply go look in the zoom vault and never offered which ones even. I also though people would be more helpful and such, but that is not really the case for me and have decided to go back to my original plan of just simply going through the banks and getting experience before I cold call again and door knock. I just feel like they market it in a way where it is the easiest thing in the world of real estate and the best thing and it is worth the price, but it really isn't. 

So it turns out you're a racist troll. I don't know why these people allow Something Like You on their platform

It sounds interesting but my concern is that this would be an unsecured loan to someone who may not be in a good financial position. I assume that if the wholesale deal falls through the earnest money is lost and the "Gator" lender would have to seek the money from the wholesaler who did not have the funding to begin with.

Am I misunderstanding?

You have no security in that type of loan however, if the deal falls through and the loanee loses the EMD you have to go to them to get money from them that they probably don't have.

Why do all these “guru” methods seem to rely on naive, uneducated, or desperate sellers?  I mean if a seller has any real estate knowledge at all isn’t he going to realize that earnest money that is returnable to the buyer for any reason at all at any time isn’t really earnest money?  And never being “at risk” is it even sufficient to legally bind a seller?  And won’t parties involved see red flags waived by all this “out of space” subterfuge?  

Also, I’ve noticed that the unknowledgeable persons who are most likely to be suckered into spending time and money on these “programs” all have a basic gullibility that leads to them making comments that have remained remarkably consistent over the last 40years.  They somehow think that for $197, or $1970, or $19700, they’ve somehow acquired some methodology, strategy, knowledge or “the secret sauce” that will ensure their investing or business success, and that the experienced, knowledgeable, and successful real estate investors who point out the obvious faults “just don’t get it”.  

Once someone has paid, what to them is a good deal of money, and invested a good deal of time, and become emotionally involved with a particular mentor and his program, they’ll fight like hell to defend it.  It’s as if pointing out any negatives about the guru, or his system, is a personal attack on themselves.  In 6 months they will be licking their wounds having given up on the system, now being that much further (by the amount spent, amount lost investing, wasted time, and emotional devastation) behind in realizing their goals and dreams