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Is my management company committing fraud
I think the property management company that manages my property is up to no good. Over a couple hours of googling I have found several fake addresses, fake LLCs, shell companies, several lawyers tied to several addresses. I have now found several properties that is ran by the main property company then branches off into 3 smaller company LLCs. All of the properties have the same reviews and same issues as my current property. What should I do?
what does your agreement say
- Head of Real Estate Investing at BiggerPockets
- Amsterdam, NL
- 768
- Votes |
- 210
- Posts
How do you know the LLCs and addresses are fake? Do they actually not exist, or are they just different from the ones on your agreement?
They wont give me a new agreement, I haven't had one in 5 years. My apt is ****ed up so I'm assuming that's why they wont. I found 9 different llcs all titled to the same person with address to suits that are being rented by social workers all the way to a staples in California. I finally found the actually company and owner out of Georgia. I know that my neighbor tried to have them served and they have fake mailing addresses for legal letters. A process servicer is the one who got me interested in what ever is going on here. I know fox Detroit and Lansing has interviewed different tenants about situations (like no heat, or mice, or city showing up condemning the properties).
- Head of Real Estate Investing at BiggerPockets
- Amsterdam, NL
- 768
- Votes |
- 210
- Posts
Its who I rent from :D From what I've read it is a federal offense to lie like that on forms. One office was rented under their Blight Attorney's Name but he's never been to the property. It's being rented by a social worker in Royal Oak
I have 4 LLCs, and have multiple other previous LLCs. I dont see how someone owning multiple LLCs would be indicative of fraud.
I don't want to move, I want them to follow the rules.
@Russell Brazil It's not the multiple LLCs, its the fake addresses. I'm going through reviews at different properties they own and no one can send legal letters to any of their offices. One address is a staples in California.
Quote from @Jason Stoner:
@Russell Brazil It's not the multiple LLCs, its the fake addresses. I'm going through reviews at different properties they own and no one can send legal letters to any of their offices. One address is a staples in California.
You know Staples owns Ipostal right? They are essentially an alternative service to having a PO Box at the Post Office. UPS has them too. I think Fedex might too.
Do all the fake addresses line up to Staples, Fedex, USPS and UPS? If they do, its just PO Boxes.
No, they're a couple suits in Detroit and traverse city that do not exist. I started looking into this because my neighbor had to hire a process server to find how to serve the Management Company. He had to go through 2 fake address. I know right now they are also in Blight court for a couple of they're properties. I also know that my apt complex is in a Turkish Fund for an investor.
The process server came back with the real name of the company and the other named used was just a shell company. After that I started googling
Quote from @Jason Stoner:
Here's the problem. You claim they are bad landlords, but you insist on staying. You want to keep paying cheap rent but get an A-class rental in exchange. Sorry, but if you want cheap rent you can expect cheap services.
If you're serious about investigating or filing charges, hire an attorney.
I'm not seeing the problem? Are you afraid that you're rent money is being stolen? Who collects the rent?
If you don't like the apartment or the management, why not just move. Would you keep going to a restaurant that messes up your order every time. I would just stop going there instead trying to track down the owners and analyzing their corporate structure.
#3 1031 Exchanges Contributor
- Investor
- Las Vegas, NV
It sounds like rents are so far below market there’s never any vacancies? Maybe you’ll get lucky and they’ll sell to a new buyer that will jack the rents up to market rates and supply new agreements. It definitely sounds like a property that would get lots of buyers. Care to share the address of the building? Someone on BP might solve both your problems (wanting more attention.) and the landlord’s problems. (Someone who’s “saving money” by not paying a PM to keep rents on track…)
Quote from @Jason Stoner:How do you pay rent? Is there a place to send a check indicated in the lease? If there is, I guarantee that is a real address.
No, they're a couple suits in Detroit and traverse city that do not exist. I started looking into this because my neighbor had to hire a process server to find how to serve the Management Company. He had to go through 2 fake address. I know right now they are also in Blight court for a couple of they're properties. I also know that my apt complex is in a Turkish Fund for an investor.
The process server came back with the real name of the company and the other named used was just a shell company. After that I started googling
by the way there is nothing illegal about making you hard to find. It is one of the purposes of LLCs.
cheap rent equates to less maintenance. This should not be crossing into the below legal standards. Do you have heat, water, stove/oven that work, a safe unit? Note paint, flooring, etc in most markets do not have minimum standards above safe.
if you want to live in a better maintained complex it will likely require paying higher rent. This is because keeping a property nice has associated costs. So you can obtain cheapest rent in lower maintained properties or pay more rent for better maintained properties. Your choice, but it is not reasonable to expect to pay lowest rent and living in above minimum maintained properties.
by the way I choose to maintain my properties in good shape, but my rents are not at bottom of market rate. They are closer to top of market rent.
good luck
I believe there are 6 condemned apartments in the complex that are unlivable. Everything is on faulty wiring and they are in Blight Court with my city. They will not give me an address to send a check. I have to pay a service fee and will only pay online (That started about a year ago) Ans part of the parking lot caved in
I know in my state, we have to accept cash payments. If you need a place to serve see if the state laws allow you to pay cash. With that said I find this whole thread confusing.
Jason,
I'm a broker and property manager here in Tampa. The unfortunate situation that many of my clients have faced prior to coming to me is that their smaller property manager was bought out by a larger corporation, and consequently their services were diminished.
Regarding your maintenance issues with your units, as your agent your property manager is responsible for reporting all issues to you and following your directions regarding repairs. If they are not showing you the obedience that you are owed with them as your agent, they are in breach of contract whether written or implied.
Another issue I've seen, which you should look into, is MANY property managers operating without being properly licensed by the state. Here in Florida, only a Licensed Real Estate Broker may serve as a property manager. Licensed Agents working for the Broker may also serve as property managers if the broker allows. You should definitely look into your PM's licensing and take up complaints with the appropriate state agency.
Lastly, I'm not sure why you would want to stick with a property manager that you are having this much difficulty with. Your life will always be much easier when you work with the right people.
Quote from @Stephen Dispensa:
Jason,
I'm a broker and property manager here in Tampa. The unfortunate situation that many of my clients have faced prior to coming to me is that their smaller property manager was bought out by a larger corporation, and consequently their services were diminished.
Regarding your maintenance issues with your units, as your agent your property manager is responsible for reporting all issues to you and following your directions regarding repairs. If they are not showing you the obedience that you are owed with them as your agent, they are in breach of contract whether written or implied.
Another issue I've seen, which you should look into, is MANY property managers operating without being properly licensed by the state. Here in Florida, only a Licensed Real Estate Broker may serve as a property manager. Licensed Agents working for the Broker may also serve as property managers if the broker allows. You should definitely look into your PM's licensing and take up complaints with the appropriate state agency.
Lastly, I'm not sure why you would want to stick with a property manager that you are having this much difficulty with. Your life will always be much easier when you work with the right people.
As I read this, he is a tenant trying to reach the property manager.
Quote from @Jason Stoner:
I think the property management company that manages my property is up to no good. Over a couple hours of googling I have found several fake addresses, fake LLCs, shell companies, several lawyers tied to several addresses. I have now found several properties that is ran by the main property company then branches off into 3 smaller company LLCs. All of the properties have the same reviews and same issues as my current property. What should I do?
If you wanna know my first take after reading your post here goes.
You asked the question (is your Property Management company up to no good?)
Several thoughts came to mind.
How is it fraud for them to have more than one company?
Why would you be accusing them of fraud over something just because you don’t understand the structure they chose to use?
If you don’t like or trust you’re Property Management company move on to a different one.
Why can’t the property management company structure there business the way they want?
What's your experience in LLC and asset protection?
Quote from @Jason Stoner:
I believe there are 6 condemned apartments in the complex that are unlivable. Everything is on faulty wiring and they are in Blight Court with my city. They will not give me an address to send a check. I have to pay a service fee and will only pay online (That started about a year ago) Ans part of the parking lot caved in
So (you believe) there are six condemned departments in the complex???
If it’s so bad, instead of playing detective or code officer, why not move?
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Jason Stoner:
Here's the problem. You claim they are bad landlords, but you insist on staying. You want to keep paying cheap rent but get an A-class rental in exchange. Sorry, but if you want cheap rent you can expect cheap services.
If you're serious about investigating or filing charges, hire an attorney.
He's a stoner, what do you expect?
