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Tax Overages
Anyone know if this tax Overages program with Rick Dawson and Bob Diamond is for real or legit? Thinking about adding this to my portfolio just want to make sure i'm not being scammed with this.
Thanks
Andre
It's good to get the answers on different guru programs that seem to look promising.. however I can't really tell if Bobs program is working for people or not? I am seriously considering it and my take is who cares about Florida or cali when you have plenty of other states to work this method of investing? I feel like most deals that you have to skip trace and jump through hoops to get done can be the most profitable ones. I am focusing on probate and I have been working this one probate deal taking it through court and getting 6 children to sign off...however I am looking at 200k in potential equity when I get the deal done.. so I want the hard stuff that nobody wants to spend the time on. It's called use a VA and skip tracing service done deal!!!
20 years ago, I was trying to help people who were owed refund from FHA PMI mortgage insurance premiums when they paid off or refinanced their home. My two biggest problems was skip tracing previous owner and dealing with the high competition from other finders.
This sounds like it would be the same challenge.
I agree with @Jeremy Hazelwood hire a professional skiptracer and work on the properties that fly under the radar. Huge rewards for those that solve BIG problems!
Any updates on the level of success in this overages business? I'm in California and wondering if this is worth while to add to my tool belt as an investor that wants to help out homeowners.
I think if someone is successful doing this work (helping people claim their tax deed overages), they don't really want to go shouting about it. Why create competition? Personally, I just spent many many long months deep in research of each counties tax deed auctions (in Florida only), court documents, claims put in, which were successful, which were not and I found it all to be the opposite of over-saturated. The counties do NOT make it easy on anyone - as you may or may not know, most counties keep the money from tax deed overages, so they're in no rush to help anyone claim any of it.
#5 Wholesaling Contributor
- Real Estate Broker
- Naples, FL
I don't think your post is accurate. BY LAW, overages go to the previous owner. To suggest the counties keep the money sounds a bit far fetched to me. Now, if someone has just disappeared, it would make sense that they don't devote time to hunting them down.
I guess my wording was off. If no one claims it, the money stays with some counties and other than the original notice of surplus that was mailed to the property that was auctioned off, the county does nothing further to find the person. Other counties turn it over to the state.
I can tell you that in Florida there are about a dozen companies already doing this. After the tax deed sale, the county mails out a form to those owners who are due a surplus along with a dozen other mailers from all these companies. The majority of owners don't need a company to fill out a form and take a 30% cut but they fall prey to the marketing mailers.
Some of these surplus cases actually do take extra legal work though. I bought one where the owners died many years ago without probate. The heirs were tracked down and they had to file probate first to be able to make a claim. All the heirs are out of state, and they probably were not even aware of their claim.
Also, I believe Florida statute dictates that any surplus not claimed after 6 months goes to the State. County employees do what they can with the info they have available to properly distribute the surplus. Their is no 'gain' to them to keep the money, as the state ultimately gets any unclaimed funds.
"the county mails out a form to those owners who are due a surplus along with a dozen other mailers from all these companies"
I understand that, but a lot of people have already moved on and the mail is returned, evidenced by the returned mail images I see in the research of the tax deed auctions.
There are thousands of tax deed auctions in 2016 alone where no one ever put in a claim and the surplus still sits there. Also, no one should just rely on any lists the county puts up on their webpage... most don't, you have to get creative (and sometimes VERY creative) with some counties to find the overbids.
All I am saying is that if you just go by a list the county puts up on their website and then think 'well there are a dozen companies already mailing this person, so forget it', then yes, THAT is over saturated.
So is anyone doing this in 2017 and what's the best program or way to learn how?
@Arroyo Aaron google: hooked on overages
@Arroyo Aaron, I am in Chatsworth GA and have been researching this lately. If you want to get together to try and figure this out let me know. I have 2 lists already of overages, Whitfield and Chatham County. I will continue to reach out for more every day. Just need to research the documents and process required and see if there is a 12% cap in GA or not to try and get the pipeline going!
@Stephen Turner, The Cap is not 12%. Actually, your finders fee can scale from 30 to 40%.
Only STATE funds are capped at 10% finders fee. For example: If a claim escheat to the STATE, then the cap would be 10%. As long as the funds are with the county, you can charge the 30 to 40% finders fee. Escheat defined: FUNDS THAT ARE TURNED OVER TO THE STATE. GEORGIA ESCHEATMENT PERIOD IS 5 YEARS. Therefore, if I were you, I wouldn't work any claims that are more than 5 years old (personal opinion).
NOTE*** You may find a county that spells out, that the finders fee is " XYZ". Look for this when you obtain your list.
Be careful with counties where you have to submit an interpleader - This may require an attorney.
However, before processing a claim, I would suggest you contact the county directly to inquire as to whether or not they work with 3rd parties.
Before processing a claim with a claimant -
You should get them to sign a contingency form. This protects your business agreement and alleviate the claimant from circumventing you as the Finder.
Fee agreement form - outlines the terms of your finders fee and the claimants portion.
A power of attorney - Allows you to cash or deposit the check.
People like to think that the arena for Overages is saturated.
To be honest, I've found that "it is" oversaturated with finders - "those who can't find".
In other words, most have been "unsuccessful ". You'll come across a lot of people who won't share success or unsuccessful stories, that's because they are afraid that you will come in and start making money. But, it's really enough for everybody. What makes a finder successful is their "Strategy". You have to have a strategy.
GOOD LUCK!
@Arroyo Aaron, Have you googled "Hooked on Overages"?
What did you think?
@Zee Brooke Thank You so much for all that info! All the documents was the part I was really trying to nail down to make sure everything is in place to protect both the client and myself. As with most things, with enough research and YouTube videos you can save yourself from having to pay crazy course fee's if you aren't scared to just get out there and do it! Once again, I really appreciate it and maybe one day we could get together and have lunch or something to see how we might be able to help each other out, I'm only about an hour and a half north of Atlanta!
@Zee Brooke yes I've looked at it and am familiar with the process already...Am assuming you all are saying that this is a very good way to get my feet wet in real estate...I do need to make some things happen within the next 30 days
@Stephen Turner sounds great although I do have a partner and we have discussed overages but we never came to any agreement about them...I myself like it and I actually wanted to begin with them..As you mentioned forms and agreements is where am having an issue with...sure I have come across some but which ones will be legal in Ga and which contingency clauses do I include if it's not already in the agreement I've found...no one actually provides a business in a box...there's gonna be something left out...
@Arroyo Aaron, I agree. Anyone that is having success in this field isn't likely to give away everything in a nice little package. I recently watched Bob Diamond's webinar with Rehab Valuator and that's what got me interested. I do not have a partner so I was considering getting his program since he claims to give you the following:
21 Day Quick Start Guide
12 Training Modules
Leads
Guide for the best states to work in
Telephone Scripts
Letters and Document Templates
While this seems nice, I don't think I want to spend the $1,500 when the only thing I need is the documents and with a little research and a few phone calls I can probably lock those down myself. And thanks to Zee Brooke I think we both got a better understanding of these items without having to fork over money to a "Guru". But if I get any more insight I will gladly get on here and post it for you, because like she said there is plenty to go around and once the forms are locked down it's just skip tracing the person to start helping people out and making some money!
I signed up and paid the cost of joining, but it has been a slow start. I have not closed my first deal and here is why:
The business instructs you to get a Power of Attorney so that you can cash funds payable to your client and then send them their pre-determined percentage based on papers they sign when you make contact.
The trick has been finding a bank that understands this. Customer support has merely sent me links about law, defining a POA. Reciting law to a bank teller, or even bank managers, is like speaking a foreign language. And many banks refuse to give out their legal department phone number unless you are already a client.
Only 1 bank employee had somewhat of an idea, and mentioned the necessary business account would function SIMILAR to (but not the same as) a I.O.L.T.A. (Interest on Lawyer Trust Account), in the sense that funds owed to third parties would be held briefly in there which you would not be taxed for.
Reports of POA problems with banks big and small are rampant. No solid solution seems to be available, based on what I've read. The general consensus suggests to be persistent. I would think with the number of businesses and individuals nationwide who use them for all sorts of reasons, banks would have a much more solid approach for this.
Today I asked customer support of Overages Blueprint to send me the name and number of at least ONE bank employee who understands this business and has successfully executed a deposit using a POA. We'll see if they send me such a simple referral. If not, I may be forced to demand a refund.
@Stephen Turner
Just an FYI - all of the things you listed are provided EXCEPT leads. I had to go find my own leads, which as many previous posts confirmed, are limited by the states that allow lists to be provided for commercial use.
@Arroyo Aaron I wouldn't necessarily refer to overages as a good way to get your feet wet in terms of real estate. However, it's definitely a way to establish a journey to investing in real estate. You have to understand that working overages is not a "GET RICH Quick" concept. There's hard work, sweat and tears (smile), that you have to put in. If you work a claim and score, give or take, the payout could be from 2 weeks - 1 year or more. It depends on the complexity of the claim. First you have to locate the claimant (Skip trace), get them to believe (believe in the fact that money is awaiting), and get them to officially sign (agreements and such). It's up to you as the Recovery Agent to do your due diligence in checking into the claimants background. In example; making sure the claimant is the rightful owner, no judgments, no liens and any debt that could acquire the overage. DO REMEMBER: Claimants aren't entitled to give you their background history. When they sign your forms, they're just looking to collect. (I've been there and done that - for example: I worked a claim all the way to the end, followed it through until it was paid out, but couldn't understand where the check or monies had gone. I actually thought the claimant had skipped out on me. lol Come to find out, that I didn't do my due diligence. The claimant was a small business owner, who had acquired debt in the business and had been reluctant to pay. The debtor placed a lien on the property in which the overages was owed. Once I completed the request, it triggered the debtor collection lien.) There you have it - Work done for nothing. But, in this business you win some and lose some. You just have to be patient and willing to work the program. If you work it successfully, you can then take the proceeds and invest in real estate.
Good Luck
@Nate Hananger @Stephen Turner
Seriously - I've been there and done that. You don't have to spend money for these programs.
I'm sharing this with you because no one shared it with me. I dug and dug and dug for information and the process just wasn't clear! Until I just broke down and paid for online training , in addition to a live face to face. I found that the online program was outdated and missing pieces, as well the recorded contents were from 2007, 2010. How did I know this? I'm a very analytical person, when I was reviewing the screenshots in the program, they were time and date stamped. However, outside of the outdated contents, the legal forms appeared to have been updated over the years. I decided to attend a live training in hopes of gaining a greater understanding and the ability to interact with program directors. The live training was really a flute too. There was hardly anything different from the online training.
Really the program owners just sit and enjoy the fruits of their labor. They don't provide 1x1 support, unless you enter into a joint business venture with them or become a researcher. Joint business ventures requires additional capital other than what you've invested in the program. Researchers are pretty much like "runners". They run to the court house pick up paper work, do research, while the company contact the claimants and close the deal on the backend. The researcher don't even get near a quarter of the proceeds. (This is solely my opinion.)
It's my belief that program owners are able to market and sell these programs over and over, because people tend to look for the missing pieces in these programs. As well Overages Program owners and Real Estate Gurus work together to market their businesses. One will tell you about how the other can help you with investing and such. With this being said, it's really a lucrative business for them. (my opinion)
The Overages Program requires that, one should be familiar with some real estate terminology such as; FIFA, Grantor, Grantee, tax sale, tax lein, escheat, and etc).
It's also critical to know a little about:
Title searching
Deeds of records (county or online)
Tax Commissioners office
Tax Accessors office
Laws involving heirs (of the deceased claimants)
*NOTE: Most large counties included over 40% of deceased claimants
These are some of the details that the programs don't reveal. They are needed and essential to being successful. In the Overages business you can never have enough tools to cross reference.
Good Luck
Hey Nate -
I think you are thinking too hard into the POA. Financial POA's are established every day. Keep in mind that all the documents the claimant will be signing, needs to and will be notarized. The "Notary" is your witness to the execution of the POA.
See - the idea is not to call and ask the Bank -"may I cash a check for Ms. Jane Doe?" You have to remember, you are a "BUSINESS". Nor should you ask - "Can I deposit my claimant check into my account?" This is not the idea.
The idea is for you to establish your business bank account. When you receive the check in the mail (If it's not in your companies name), as the POA, you can sign and write on the back of the check: Pay to the order of "XYZ Recovery Agency" and deposit the check. Companies conduct business of this such every day. Granted you shouldn't immediately send the funds to the claimant. The funds should be held in your account at least 30 days. The terms of the hold should be spelled out in your disbursement letter to the claimant.
If you're not comfortable with just walking in the bank depositing the check into your account. Partner with an attorney who can manage these transactions. The attorney could use his/her escrow account.
Good Luck
@Zee Brooke
Your response is quite similar to the support team from Overages Blueprint, as a matter of fact.
I completely agree and fully understand the process. It is bank employees I speak with that do not. This is not a hypothetical problem. I had 3 different banks reject this today alone, including one from a compliance department. I did not even tell them it was something to do in the distant future. I said I had a check in hand just to create urgency in the matter.
Still no dice. No solid explanation from the banks. Just a vague, "We cannot help you" or "We don't handle that sort of business."
There's something very odd about a common practice like POA's being such an unknown factor to banks.
If you Google the matter of Power of Attorney and add a common bank name (Wells Fargo, Citibank, BofA, etc), you will see the others who've had even worse experiences.
So again, I hear you loud and clear. I just need at least one active bank employee on the phone for five minutes who is on the same page.