What Do You Think Of All Of The Reverse Trolling in the Forums?

[Jonathan Greene]

First, let me define what I mean by reverse trolling. Reverse trolling is posing a vague question in your practice area to allegedly spur discussion, but it's always to get business. 

It's technically avoidant of advertising or self-promotion, but it always is blatant self-promotion opportunity. It's a way to skirt the rules IMO.

Is it responder beware (and technically in compliance) or just trash?

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Here are some examples:

Real estate agent in Topeka - "Anyone have thoughts on the Topeka real estate market?"

Lender - "What kind of rates are you guys seeing on DSCR lately?"

Software developer - "What things do you look for in a CRM?" (owns a CRM company)

Wholesaler in Akron - "What types of homes do you usually look for when you are looking off-market in Akron?"

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I am curious about the general feelings out there because I can be a bit hypervigilant, and posts like these drive me nuts.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

Meritocracy...require a minimum vote ratio to post.  Quality over quantity.

that would be an interesting exercise for BP super computer who has the most votes to post ratio I bet Mike D is right at the top.. then on the inverse you would have the least votes for the most posts those would be those folks that just post the same thing over and over I suspect.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

Meritocracy...require a minimum vote ratio to post.  Quality over quantity.

that would be an interesting exercise for BP super computer who has the most votes to post ratio I bet Mike D is right at the top.. then on the inverse you would have the least votes for the most posts those would be those folks that just post the same thing over and over I suspect.

I always tell people to look at posts vs. votes ratio. I think it's really important.

[JD Martin]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

Meritocracy...require a minimum vote ratio to post.  Quality over quantity.

that would be an interesting exercise for BP super computer who has the most votes to post ratio I bet Mike D is right at the top.. then on the inverse you would have the least votes for the most posts those would be those folks that just post the same thing over and over I suspect.

Mike's the EF Hutton of BP 😀

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

Meritocracy...require a minimum vote ratio to post.  Quality over quantity.

that would be an interesting exercise for BP super computer who has the most votes to post ratio I bet Mike D is right at the top.. then on the inverse you would have the least votes for the most posts those would be those folks that just post the same thing over and over I suspect.

Mike's the EF Hutton of BP 😀

hey you stole my line  I suspect half of bp has no clue who Ef hutton is or what we are talking about. 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

But I've seen some great posts with valuable info from newbies.......?

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Scott Trench:

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

I really think that this is not necessary (with all due respect @Jonathan Greene)

The forum is great and works just fine IMO. The trolls are obvious to anyone with a little sense. The 'good guys' on here can help the newbies by pointing out the very obvious trolls......

Just my $0.02

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

I really think that this is not necessary (with all due respect @Jonathan Greene)

The forum is great and works just fine IMO. The trolls are obvious to anyone with a little sense. The 'good guys' on here can help the newbies by pointing out the very obvious trolls......

Just my $0.02

I think if we have active moderators and active community to help put them back in the bag it will be fine as well. It's not a giant burden right now, but with AI and duplication posts, it's becoming much easier to spam overall.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

I really think that this is not necessary (with all due respect @Jonathan Greene)

The forum is great and works just fine IMO. The trolls are obvious to anyone with a little sense. The 'good guys' on here can help the newbies by pointing out the very obvious trolls......

Just my $0.02

I think if we have active moderators and active community to help put them back in the bag it will be fine as well. It's not a giant burden right now, but with AI and duplication posts, it's becoming much easier to spam overall.

I still find the biggest 'issue' on the Forum is what we've already talked about - the failure of most new members to use the search feature before asking the same question that has been asked over and over again. How that gets fixed I have no idea, I'm sure it is a problem on every forum out there.....but it bogs down the Forum and wastes people's time more than anything else IMHO...

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

I really think that this is not necessary (with all due respect @Jonathan Greene)

The forum is great and works just fine IMO. The trolls are obvious to anyone with a little sense. The 'good guys' on here can help the newbies by pointing out the very obvious trolls......

Just my $0.02

I think if we have active moderators and active community to help put them back in the bag it will be fine as well. It's not a giant burden right now, but with AI and duplication posts, it's becoming much easier to spam overall.

I still find the biggest 'issue' on the Forum is what we've already talked about - the failure of most new members to use the search feature before asking the same question that has been asked over and over again. How that gets fixed I have no idea, I'm sure it is a problem on every forum out there.....but it bogs down the Forum and wastes people's time more than anything else IMHO...

Yes, this is a product of laziness on the part of the user base most of the time, but also because the actual search function is not that great. It's certainly easy to find the answer to should I create an LLC, but even searching people is kind of random sometimes.

[Henry Clark]

I think as BP evolves it will address these issues from an AI or automated approach or better lookup function.  

Would split the discussion between new posters asking either very simplistic, repetitive  or location specific questions.  Versus professionals drumming up business.  

New person.  A.  Do you know a good carpenter in town xyz?  This becomes a new product line for BP.  Or an auto message suggesting this post on a different sub forum.  B.  Can I 1031 my mother’s house I just inherited for a convenience store?  AI response.  BP posts are a huge data mine.  Not necessarily correct but a good starting point as an AI response.  This is already possible and has been demonstrated on BP.

Professionals drumming up business.   I don’t mind an AI generated post.  But I hate reading them and at the end is a what do you think question.  They should have the intellectual business strength to tell their personal thoughts and experiences.  

This post to me is a troll, but the OP has given his opinion, which I appreciate.  

Everyone go make a post on the last deal or issue they had and that will be value add versus troll posts.  

I’ll go update one of my Belize posts.  Paradise is 5 days of rain for the 7 days we will be here.  But finishing off planting 3,000 more teak seedlings.  Placing an order for 30,000 more for next year.  

Bridge is flooded 8 feet now so have stay on our side for 2 days.  

Placing order for 300 more self storage locks in case China gets shut down or tariffs come into play.  

Running numbers to build another storage location.  This would primarily be cargo containers which are at a 5 year low.  All new 1 trip containers come from China.  These prices doubled during COVID and would probably triple if tariffs or shutdown with China.  

Lumber prices went up right before Covid from a presidential tariff since Canada was price dumping into the U.S.  Same issue could occur again to housing costs.  Same issue for drywall.  Most of the material used comes from non U.S. friendly countries. 

Point is there are a lot of great topics out there to post on.  

BP feeds off of new investors and them being able to ask and answer on this forum like a quick burger at McDonald’s.  Takes responders like you or me to serve up the burger.  So these posts and the troll posts are part of the mix.  

[JD Martin]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

Meritocracy...require a minimum vote ratio to post.  Quality over quantity.

that would be an interesting exercise for BP super computer who has the most votes to post ratio I bet Mike D is right at the top.. then on the inverse you would have the least votes for the most posts those would be those folks that just post the same thing over and over I suspect.

Mike's the EF Hutton of BP 😀

hey you stole my line  I suspect half of bp has no clue who Ef hutton is or what we are talking about. 

 🤣 I suspect you are probably right...lucky Google is out there to help them when they do a search for it 😀

[Jason Hanson]

This is a great discussion. I really appreciate all the thoughtfulness and difference of opinion. I'm good either way, but I'm new and don't know the exact extent this takes place on this forum. I do know that most people hate click bait and so many of the real estate groups I'm a part of do similiar things to keep post engagement up and that drives me up a wall!

[James Hamling]

@Jonathan Greene I think it's all about intent. 

For example, if the guy with the CRM company is asking the CRM questions because he actually is seeking the info from the public, what they like, hate, need, want, so he can go back and use that info to better what he's doing, hey high-5.

Unfortunately, that's maybe what, 1:1,000.... 

Other than that, yeah, it's annoying. But, I bet-ya it's also effective.  

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

I really think that this is not necessary (with all due respect @Jonathan Greene)

The forum is great and works just fine IMO. The trolls are obvious to anyone with a little sense. The 'good guys' on here can help the newbies by pointing out the very obvious trolls......

Just my $0.02

I think if we have active moderators and active community to help put them back in the bag it will be fine as well. It's not a giant burden right now, but with AI and duplication posts, it's becoming much easier to spam overall.

I still find the biggest 'issue' on the Forum is what we've already talked about - the failure of most new members to use the search feature before asking the same question that has been asked over and over again. How that gets fixed I have no idea, I'm sure it is a problem on every forum out there.....but it bogs down the Forum and wastes people's time more than anything else IMHO...

It's people Bruce. 

Almost daily I get a phone call of: "Hey, I am calling on your property listed for rent (that they are obviously reading because that's how they got my #), I was wondering, is it available?". 

It's been years on end I have been doing this and still, to this day every time I get asked this question, I so desperately want to say "Nope! Not available. I just like to list places and keep them posted so I get a chance to talk to nice new people, like you. So, how's it going?" Lol. 

But I get it, plenty do keep places posted that are no longer available, so I am nice, I answer. But, then when they ask me the rent, the terms, available date...... I tell them it's one quarter inch away from where they looked at my #, READ THE LISTING. No, they don't almost never.     Because it's too much energy to take 2min to read it, instead they just read for a #, and call me to ask everything they just refused to read in looking for my #........ 

I assure that's what's happening here, it's a generational thing. 

I miss the good ole days, when you could tell an idiot there being an idiot.... 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @James Hamling:

I miss the good ole days, when you could tell an idiot there being an idiot.... 

Ya sure can't do that anymore....I love the newbies that ask for advice, and then when you give them your opinion, they get insulted and want to argue....about something they just said they know nothing about and want advice on... Go figure.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @James Hamling:

@Jonathan Greene I think it's all about intent. 

For example, if the guy with the CRM company is asking the CRM questions because he actually is seeking the info from the public, what they like, hate, need, want, so he can go back and use that info to better what he's doing, hey high-5.

Unfortunately, that's maybe what, 1:1,000.... 

Other than that, yeah, it's annoying. But, I bet-ya it's also effective.  

I completely agree with that and there is a way to phrase it when you are not trolling by saying, hey I own a CRM company and am honestly looking for feedback to make the product better (and then do not send DMs). That is smart business.

Most people, as you said, just fake it so poorly. A lender, "how about interest rates, wow." Ok buddy.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

I really think that this is not necessary (with all due respect @Jonathan Greene)

The forum is great and works just fine IMO. The trolls are obvious to anyone with a little sense. The 'good guys' on here can help the newbies by pointing out the very obvious trolls......

Just my $0.02

I think if we have active moderators and active community to help put them back in the bag it will be fine as well. It's not a giant burden right now, but with AI and duplication posts, it's becoming much easier to spam overall.

I still find the biggest 'issue' on the Forum is what we've already talked about - the failure of most new members to use the search feature before asking the same question that has been asked over and over again. How that gets fixed I have no idea, I'm sure it is a problem on every forum out there.....but it bogs down the Forum and wastes people's time more than anything else IMHO...

It's people Bruce. 

Almost daily I get a phone call of: "Hey, I am calling on your property listed for rent (that they are obviously reading because that's how they got my #), I was wondering, is it available?". 

It's been years on end I have been doing this and still, to this day every time I get asked this question, I so desperately want to say "Nope! Not available. I just like to list places and keep them posted so I get a chance to talk to nice new people, like you. So, how's it going?" Lol. 

But I get it, plenty do keep places posted that are no longer available, so I am nice, I answer. But, then when they ask me the rent, the terms, available date...... I tell them it's one quarter inch away from where they looked at my #, READ THE LISTING. No, they don't almost never.     Because it's too much energy to take 2min to read it, instead they just read for a #, and call me to ask everything they just refused to read in looking for my #........ 

I assure that's what's happening here, it's a generational thing. 

I miss the good ole days, when you could tell an idiot there being an idiot.... 

This is why I haven't answered my phone once, except from family, in the past eight years. They text me a question about the listing and I send them back the listing URL. I am not doing other people's reading for them. I have better things to do with my time (like never being on the phone unless it's a scheduled call).

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @James Hamling:

@Jonathan Greene I think it's all about intent. 

For example, if the guy with the CRM company is asking the CRM questions because he actually is seeking the info from the public, what they like, hate, need, want, so he can go back and use that info to better what he's doing, hey high-5.

Unfortunately, that's maybe what, 1:1,000.... 

Other than that, yeah, it's annoying. But, I bet-ya it's also effective.  

I completely agree with that and there is a way to phrase it when you are not trolling by saying, hey I own a CRM company and am honestly looking for feedback to make the product better (and then do not send DMs). That is smart business.

Most people, as you said, just fake it so poorly. A lender, "how about interest rates, wow." Ok buddy.

Yeah, 100% agree. 

And I'd hope people have enough wit's to figure if someone BS's their way to get "biz leads" there probably going to BS their way through/around anything/everything else.     

It's deceptive practice, plain n simple. 

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @James Hamling:

@Jonathan Greene I think it's all about intent. 

For example, if the guy with the CRM company is asking the CRM questions because he actually is seeking the info from the public, what they like, hate, need, want, so he can go back and use that info to better what he's doing, hey high-5.

Unfortunately, that's maybe what, 1:1,000.... 

Other than that, yeah, it's annoying. But, I bet-ya it's also effective.  

I completely agree with that and there is a way to phrase it when you are not trolling by saying, hey I own a CRM company and am honestly looking for feedback to make the product better (and then do not send DMs). That is smart business.

Most people, as you said, just fake it so poorly. A lender, "how about interest rates, wow." Ok buddy.

Yeah, 100% agree. 

And I'd hope people have enough wit's to figure if someone BS's their way to get "biz leads" there probably going to BS their way through/around anything/everything else.     

It's deceptive practice, plain n simple. 

You would be shocked (maybe you wouldn't) at how the posters who reverse troll try to make it like it was just a simple question (with bullet points and a soft call-to-action). My neck hurts from shaking my head so hard.

[Alex Craig]

Most can see through that. I am not a big fan and it sounds desperate, not to mention takes away from the purpose of what BP is. There are plenty of paid opportunities. The best way to grow your business is to help people and give solid advice in the forums. The rest just falls in place over time. 

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Alex Craig:

Most can see through that. I am not a big fan and it sounds desperate, not to mention takes away from the purpose of what BP is. There are plenty of paid opportunities. The best way to grow your business is to help people and give solid advice in the forums. The rest just falls in place over time. 

I think the people who do it are lazy or using VAs. As you said, it's a no-brainer that if you just spend time answering questions (without an ask), more people will reach out to you.

[Ed O.]

Quote from @Ned Carey:

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 Couldn't be said better. 

Additionally, it drives people away from the forums.