I'm looking for tenant quality maps of Cleveland, Akron, and Canton, OH

[Jeff G.]

I own some multifamily homes in Akron and Canton, OH, all MLS deals. I've read over James Wise's Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods but at 7 years old it's surely a bit dated. I haven't found similar resources — dated or otherwise — for the Akron or Canton, OH markets where I currently invest. Can someone point me in the direction of a similar resource for Akron and Canton? An up to date tenant quality map would really help me make better decisions as I expand; I'm 100% remote from several states away.

I plan on expanding my Akron and Canton holdings, but I might be convinced to start picking up properties in Cleveland too if the numbers work better with similar levels of managed risk. Thanks!

[Christian Styles]

Hey Jeff, we are working on an updated neighborhoods page for Cleveland right now actually. I'd be happy to send it over when it's completed! Do you have a specific neighborhood in Cleveland youre interested in? 

[Jeff G.]

Hey @Christian Styles, yes please!

I don't have an specific neighborhood of Cleveland in mind. To give you at least some context to work with: I can tell you I'm much more interested in multifamily than SFH. My existing portfolio definitely hews toward working poor, but in areas where the locals tend to keep their yards up and have at least a bit of self-respect. Some of my tenants are on various forms of assistance and others aren't. I don't much mind either way as long as the numbers work and the property is treated well.

I've had decent luck in West Akron — once I got through the rehab headaches — but I have no footprint in Cleveland at all. It just looks like I can command higher rents more consistently in Cleveland than Akron or Canton, hence my interest. I'm aware that might be an illusion that only exists on paper, so I want to tread carefully. Is that helpful?

[Ryan Arth]

@Jeff G. One thought is if what you are doing already is working why are you looking to move markets? Yes, you might get higher rents, but will you net significantly ahead? Even moving a half hour away will require new contractors, PM, agent, etc. It's starting over again. As I read once, try to have your business efforts be cumulative, so you are not always fresh on the learning curve, where the risk is highest. 

[Jeff G.]

I'm just trying to evaluate all of my options. Everything is a balance of looking for new opportunities and not getting shiny object syndrome. Also, since Akron and Canton are sort of downstream of Cleveland's market it's a good idea to keep an eye on it anyway, even if I don't have a presence there. 

[Jack Smith]

@Jeff G.

Just remember... NONE of the three cities you area talking about are LL friendly... Cleveland is the worst of the three with the lead laws, Akron is not far behind with source of income discriminations - I mean "protections"..., and Canton continues to step up the level with ridiculous housing requirements.  I can't speak to other parts of Ohio, but it's not the gravy train around here you may be hearing.  Get with some local investors to and boots on the ground to get some solid advice.  

[Ryan Arth]

That is true Jack, there is no free lunch. But you can avoid these things by investing outside of the city proper. I don't know what Jeff's investment thesis is. The relative affordability of these markets scales to the suburbs as well, so you can succeed here without going straight to the city. You can even get exposure to C class in some suburbs. 

[Jeff G.]

@Jack Smith, can you be more specific on the lead laws and income source protection issues?

I don't mind source of income protections, I don't actually care how tenants make rent as long as they do and it's more or less on time. What sort of problems have you run into with assistance programs? The worst I've had to deal with is payment delay the first month a tenant joins an assistance program. It's annoying, but it's not terrible. Generally speaking my tenants communicate so it's not usually a surprise either.

I do network with locals for local advice, which is why I'm genuinely curious about the lead issue and your experience with renter assistance programs causing problems. What's the backstory here?

@Ryan Arth, I'm interested in multifamily homes in C class neighborhoods or better that are at least economically stable. For now, I'm a cash flow investor first and an appreciation investor a distant second. That said, I buy in cash and then renovate appropriately for the area. As a consequence, I tend to force appreciation in any event. Demographically, very slow (sub 1%) population loss is fine, these things tend to rebound eventually. Also, no "company towns" like Flint, Michigan or Gary, Indiana where a single employer can pull up shop and the town no longer has an economic driver.

[Michael Smythe]

@Jeff G. we're currently working on an interactive map for Detroit. 

PM us if interested!

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @Jeff G.:

I own some multifamily homes in Akron and Canton, OH, all MLS deals. I've read over James Wise's Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods but at 7 years old it's surely a bit dated. I haven't found similar resources — dated or otherwise — for the Akron or Canton, OH markets where I currently invest. Can someone point me in the direction of a similar resource for Akron and Canton? An up to date tenant quality map would really help me make better decisions as I expand; I'm 100% remote from several states away.

I plan on expanding my Akron and Canton holdings, but I might be convinced to start picking up properties in Cleveland too if the numbers work better with similar levels of managed risk. Thanks!

 We used to get 25- 35% NET caps , all in pricing from about 25- 40k in the better areas of Clev, GH MH CH, WH, Lee Harvard Euclid. Now we still get 10% +++ these numbers are based on cash purchases. We buy everywhere, even parts of East Cleveland, where I just got 900 for a 1 br in my 7 unit. 

[Simon Ashbaugh]

Quote from @Jeff G.:

Hey @Christian Styles, yes please!

I don't have an specific neighborhood of Cleveland in mind. To give you at least some context to work with: I can tell you I'm much more interested in multifamily than SFH. My existing portfolio definitely hews toward working poor, but in areas where the locals tend to keep their yards up and have at least a bit of self-respect. Some of my tenants are on various forms of assistance and others aren't. I don't much mind either way as long as the numbers work and the property is treated well.

I've had decent luck in West Akron — once I got through the rehab headaches — but I have no footprint in Cleveland at all. It just looks like I can command higher rents more consistently in Cleveland than Akron or Canton, hence my interest. I'm aware that might be an illusion that only exists on paper, so I want to tread carefully. Is that helpful?

Hey Jeff, places like Lakewood, Old Brooklyn, Brooklyn Centre, Edgewater, Jefferson and West Boulevard are some places that are good to explore in Cleveland. I have the city mapped out by their neighborhood classes as well. Feel free to connect.

[Jack Smith]

Quote from @Jeff G.:

@Jack Smith, can you be more specific on the lead laws and income source protection issues?

I don't mind source of income protections, I don't actually care how tenants make rent as long as they do and it's more or less on time. What sort of problems have you run into with assistance programs? The worst I've had to deal with is payment delay the first month a tenant joins an assistance program. It's annoying, but it's not terrible. Generally speaking my tenants communicate so it's not usually a surprise either.

I do network with locals for local advice, which is why I'm genuinely curious about the lead issue and your experience with renter assistance programs causing problems. What's the backstory here?

Check with James Wise's site for his Cleveland LBP requirements summary, it's much more useful than what I can offer as I'm not in the Cleveland market. But our state association - Ohio REIA watches the local cities very closely on these topics so I see the updates. Toledo's regulations are actually much worse, with a number of investors from Toledo PIN suing the city over it.

Income source protection is a reality that continues to spread and I don't care fight windmills; much like the support animal nonsense.  It actually hasn't been an issue with my properties as the only S8 applicants I've received don't qualify anyways.  I really don't have an issue with the concept but I don't like being told I have to deal with the monstrously ineffective and arrogant bureaucracy that AMHA is.  Other area PHAs are much easier to deal with.  

The sum of my gripes are over how difficult some of these cities make it to invest in.  We are the ones coming in and returning dilapidated & distressed houses, some that have been vacant and sources of problems with drugs and squatters for many years, back into functioning homes to communities that desperately needs affordable housing... where we are actually resented by the cities, placing one barrier after the next in front of you... Annual registrations, point of sale inspections, turning a blind eye to the most awful owner occupied housing while being overly strict to investment properties, courts that continue to drag out the eviction process; excruciatingly slow, laborious, and expensive permit processes; evictions that continue to be granted one extension after the next... these are the difficulties you run into in those cities.  And I fully get it that other areas may be much worse than we have.  But when you deal with communities that are more LL friendly, it's like night and day to do business.  They want us there to improve their community, and it shows.  

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @Jeff G.:

I own some multifamily homes in Akron and Canton, OH, all MLS deals. I've read over James Wise's Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods but at 7 years old it's surely a bit dated. I haven't found similar resources — dated or otherwise — for the Akron or Canton, OH markets where I currently invest. Can someone point me in the direction of a similar resource for Akron and Canton? An up to date tenant quality map would really help me make better decisions as I expand; I'm 100% remote from several states away.

I plan on expanding my Akron and Canton holdings, but I might be convinced to start picking up properties in Cleveland too if the numbers work better with similar levels of managed risk. Thanks!

 " Tenant quality map" never heard of such a thing. Tenants are the easy part. We do mostly govt as they pay more and like clockwork, just screen property. We buy everywhere, even parts of East Cleveland. I just got 900 for a 1 BR in EC AND 1700 for a 4 BR in Lee Harvard, 

All the best  

[Jimmy Lieu]

Quote from @Jeff G.:

I own some multifamily homes in Akron and Canton, OH, all MLS deals. I've read over James Wise's Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods but at 7 years old it's surely a bit dated. I haven't found similar resources — dated or otherwise — for the Akron or Canton, OH markets where I currently invest. Can someone point me in the direction of a similar resource for Akron and Canton? An up to date tenant quality map would really help me make better decisions as I expand; I'm 100% remote from several states away.

I plan on expanding my Akron and Canton holdings, but I might be convinced to start picking up properties in Cleveland too if the numbers work better with similar levels of managed risk. Thanks!

Have you thought about taking a look at Columbus which is super close to those cities? There's still tons of positive cash flow and 1% rule deals here and the appreciation is amazing here!

[Regina Blake]

Hi, as you know you can always look it up online and you will receive information about investing in Ohio's (tenant). All of those areas are good markets to invest in real estate. A lot of my clients invest in those areas from all over the world. Come check it out and if you have any questions please reach out. Thanks!