Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here

Join Over 3 Million Real Estate Investors

Create a free BiggerPockets account to comment, participate, and connect with over 3 million real estate investors.
Use your real name
By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions.
The community here is like my own little personal real estate army that I can depend upon to help me through ANY problems I come across.
Foreclosures
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

Updated 6 months ago, 06/28/2024

User Stats

444
Posts
303
Votes
Anastasia Jordan
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
303
Votes |
444
Posts

Counter Offer on Tax Sale Properties (Alabama & elsewhere)

Anastasia Jordan
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
Posted

One of my coworkers 96 year old grandfather had her go online and apply for a tax delinquent property in his neighborhood (North Birmingham). It has been empty for years. Story is the owners got old moved in with their kids and their kids had their own home and didn't want to be bothered with the house. It's a very large house too. 4 bedroom, 2 bath, den, just a big house.

Taxes on this home have not been paid since 2007.  The quote she received back via email was over $14,000!  She printed out the letter and gave it to her grandfather.  He submitted a hand written counter offer via postal mail.

They (Shelley Tice) emailed my coworker back. 

They accepted his counter offer of.....................$3000!!!! That's less than 22% of the taxes owed!!!!  WE BOTH WERE JUST ABSOLUTELY FLOORED!!!!!  He bought it! Almost 80% off!!!

*****************************************************************************************

Now y'all know with this information I'm about to step my game up!!! I'm gonna play a small hand and see if I can get a counter offer accepted for the 2 empty lots next to my personal home. The taxes on them have not been paid since 2009. As of today the county estimate for the back taxes is $1166.73 for one & $823.54 for the other.  I think $200 & $150 respectively should work.  I just submitted my apps today so I'm going to find out soon enough. 

>>>>>Questions for my seasoned investors................

Have you ever submitted a counter offer on an over-the-counter tax sale property?  

How many years delinquent was it? What was the condition of the property?

Was your offer accepted or rejected?

Did you submit your counter offer via email or postal mail? 

And how did you format your letter!?!?!? I want to be as professional & serious as possible, lol! 

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

@Rich Hill, for situations such as your's, I generally offer two years of taxes and no interest on a best price offer.

You can combine multiple properties in one quiet title lawsuit as long as they had the same prior owner.

Thanks for buying the book! My only order in the last several days was in the name of Erin Lucas, and that shipped out yesterday. Was that you?  If not, then there was some sort of issue with your order, because it's not showing up on my reports. Please contact me so we can straighten it out.

User Stats

17
Posts
3
Votes
Replied

@Denise Evans, Yes, that is my partner.  She is the brains of the operation and working on her MBA.  Thank you for your response!

NREIG  logo
NREIG
|
Sponsored
Customizable insurance coverage with a program that’s easy to use Add, edit, and remove properties from your account any time with no minimum-earned premiums.

User Stats

47
Posts
17
Votes
Ebony King
  • Birmingham, AL
17
Votes |
47
Posts
Ebony King
  • Birmingham, AL
Replied

Just wanted to add that your plan sounds great, but the state is not entertaining counter offers at the moment. They have just been inundated with so many requests lately that they are putting counter offer requests on the back burner and will entertain them at another time in the future. No one is really sure when they’ll start entertaining them again. If you really, really want the property, probably best to just buy it now. Make the counter offer, see what they say, but ultimately, if they tell you the same thing they’ve been telling almost everyone else, then my suggestion would be to just buy it. Good luck!

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

@Ebony King and @Rich Hill, I think they'll be back in business with counteroffers very shortly. They've been really busy with year-end internal stuff that has to be done, on top of all the wholesalers, so some things are just back burnered. Rich, go ahead and make your counter. It's raw land. It's not decreasing in value or deteriorating.

User Stats

186
Posts
82
Votes
Mario Am
  • Specialist
  • Nashville, TN
82
Votes |
186
Posts
Mario Am
  • Specialist
  • Nashville, TN
Replied

@Denise Evans they are really really slow, they say that it takes them 3-4 months to send a price quote, I have applied for many properties a year ago and haven’t got the quote on yet..

And its not the properties got redeemed or purchased by someone else they are still on their list.

Maybe they give low preference for out of state investors? Lol Idk what am I doing wrong.

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

@Mario Am, ADOR used to have a price request volume of 1,200 per month. Then the wholesalers started requesting many hundreds of quotes at a time, but rarely buying anything at all. The volume is now averaging 15,000 requests per month, with no additional personnel authorized because all the extra work does not result in increased sales. Everything just takes longer and longer. Plus it means that if you request a quote on something, there might be 40 people in line ahead of you, all wholesalers, none of whom will probably buy the property but each of whom will add an extra 30 days to the wait time until ADOR gets to your request. I am currently working with ADOR and some other parties for a solution to the problem.

User Stats

24
Posts
2
Votes
Thomas Kramer
  • Mobile, AL
2
Votes |
24
Posts
Thomas Kramer
  • Mobile, AL
Replied

@Denise Evans A solution would be highly appreciated! I'm in the same situation with up to 44 applicants ahead. For my past requests the average waiting time is 45 days with 3 days min. and 150 days max. And I was told they don't look at counter offers right now.

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

I’m working on it. Cannot discuss it yet. Please be patient a little longer, maybe February 2020. 

User Stats

444
Posts
303
Votes
Anastasia Jordan
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
303
Votes |
444
Posts
Anastasia Jordan
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
Replied
Originally posted by @Denise Evans:

@Mario Am, ADOR used to have a price request volume of 1,200 per month. Then the wholesalers started requesting many hundreds of quotes at a time, but rarely buying anything at all. The volume is now averaging 15,000 requests per month, with no additional personnel authorized because all the extra work does not result in increased sales. Everything just takes longer and longer. Plus it means that if you request a quote on something, there might be 40 people in line ahead of you, all wholesalers, none of whom will probably buy the property but each of whom will add an extra 30 days to the wait time until ADOR gets to your request. I am currently working with ADOR and some other parties for a solution to the problem.

 Would it be possible for ADOR to charge a nominal application fee? 

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

@Anastasia Jordan, yes it is possible. "Nominal" is relative. It will probably be in the $50 to $100 range per property.

User Stats

444
Posts
303
Votes
Anastasia Jordan
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
303
Votes |
444
Posts
Anastasia Jordan
  • Investor
  • Birmingham, AL
Replied
Originally posted by @Denise Evans:

@Anastasia Jordan, yes it is possible. "Nominal" is relative. It will probably be in the $50 to $100 range per property.

As long as they start the line over that would work! :) 

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

@Anastasia Jordan, they will probably start the line over.

BiggerPockets logo
BiggerPockets
|
Sponsored
Find an investor-friendly agent in your market TODAY Get matched with our network of trusted, local, investor friendly agents in under 2 minutes

User Stats

24
Posts
2
Votes
Thomas Kramer
  • Mobile, AL
2
Votes |
24
Posts
Thomas Kramer
  • Mobile, AL
Replied

@Denise Evans @Anastasia Jordan I think an application fee would hurt the small investors and limit their possibilities to invest. 7 of my applications are still pending, the fees for those applications can't be used to actually invest. And ADOR would have to refund the fees to applicants, who don't get a certificate (redeemed/sold). That requires more work/resources. A limitation system that actaully works would be a good choice. A well designed software can do the work and accept/decline applications in the first the place. What happend to the rule of 20 active applications per applicant, if they don't buy anything at all?

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

@Thomas Kramer, @Anastasia Jordan, the problem with a "well designed limitations system" is that people game the system with different company names, partners, strawmen, etc. That is why the old 20-property limitation system failed and was eventually abolished because it was not accomplishing anything.  ADOR has computers already that are very capable of keeping track of money and refunding money. That is kind of the business the Alabama Department of Revenue is in.

User Stats

24
Posts
2
Votes
Thomas Kramer
  • Mobile, AL
2
Votes |
24
Posts
Thomas Kramer
  • Mobile, AL
Replied
Originally posted by @Denise Evans:

That is kind of the business the Alabama Department of Revenue is in.

I'm sure it is. :)

A limitation system can use email addresses and there are possibilites to check if applications with different email addresses come from the same computer/device. There could be a limit for each email address used by an applicant (max. 40 active, 20 per month and 5 per day). I carefully decide which properties I'm applying for, I won't apply for more than 20 properties each month. Otherwise, I'd have to use a different email address.

Of course, you can have as many email addresses as you want. But managing/monitoring a lot of them isn't that much fun in the long run. And with a limit of 5 per day, it would take 4 days to reach that limit. That's certainly not a perfect way to prevent abuse, it would just make it harder for those people who want to flood the system.

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

@Thomas Kramer, I will pass your suggestions along. Thank you for a very thoughtful suggestion.

User Stats

17
Posts
3
Votes
Replied

Got my first response today from the State.  Pretty bizarre in that I have submitted about 40 requests in December from counties of Calhoun, Cherokee, and Etowah and the 5 that came back are in no particular order.  Only one of the 5 is more than 5 years old so I will submit a counter on that one.  I guess the exciting part is that I must have finally identified properties with no one in line ahead of me!

Upon further investigation it seems to me that another one has a quit claim deed from a few years ago that didn't get assessed in the new owner's name.  Should I inform someone?  The Tax Assessment Report under Grantee has "new owner's name (DEED REF ONLY-BD)".  What does "DEED REF ONLY-BD" mean?  My guess is Bond for Deed?

User Stats

107
Posts
15
Votes
Shimira Greene
  • Investor
  • Opelika, AL
15
Votes |
107
Posts
Shimira Greene
  • Investor
  • Opelika, AL
Replied

@Anastasia Jordan how did the negotiation go? Have you had any success with this method lately? Can I pay you for a copy of your counter letter?

User Stats

3
Posts
0
Votes
Replied
Quote from @Denise Evans:

@Anastasia Jordan, the property must be on the state inventory for at least five years. There is no formula.

Is there an email that would be used for the counter offer? 

User Stats

1,556
Posts
1,454
Votes
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
1,454
Votes |
1,556
Posts
Denise Evans
  • JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker
  • Tuscaloosa, AL
Replied

@Justice NA, you reply to the email that sent you the price quote.

User Stats

3
Posts
0
Votes
Replied
Quote from @Denise Evans:

@Justice NA, you reply to the email that sent you the price quote.


Thanks for your speedy reply!