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Help!!! My spouse doesn't want to house hack and I REALLY do!
What's your advice for convincing your spouse to get interested in House Hacking?
I love Scott Trench's Set for Life House Hacking mindset. Since 2009, I've owned a foreclosure-rehab turned house hack (5 BR 3 BA). I lived in 1 BR and rented out 4 BR to professional women. Every other time I've lived somewhere outside of home, I've shared with a roommate or rented a cheap bedroom in someone else's house (like $500-600/mo vs $1200+ for 1 BR 1 BA) and saved/invested the difference.
In 2016, I moved to a new state, married the love of my life and we're expecting our first baby in late May. Because his job is 1 year term-renewable, we leased a 1000 SF 1st floor 2 BR 2 BA condo for $1500 before we knew I was pregnant. I chose this larger apartment because I had initially planned to rent out the spare bed + bath for $700-800/mo, but he stopped me because he 'wanted to ensure our privacy.'
Anyway, I partnered with someone from my REIA on 2 flips and now I'm actively touring several properties a week to buy my family a rehab-fixer upper that we can live in as well as rent out part of it. (Goal: either we can sell in 2 years and get the free capital gains or we can keep the great primary residence financing and rent it anytime.)
I want to house hack. Where I live, duplexes are NOT common. Most are 'ancient' conversions of larger homes and are not very nice. When touring with investors, I have seen 0 suitable for my family. My strategy has been to look for 4+ BR 2+ BA houses in good neighborhoods that are fixer uppers / REO / foreclosures. I have found several with two entrances / split levels and a common laundry space such that I could rent 2-3 BR to another family or 2-3 professionals and earn $1500-2000/mo on a $200-250k purchase while living cheaply in the other 1000 SF of the house and having limited forced interaction with the roommates/tenants. Whenever I take my spouse to one of these 2000 SF houses, I can see money and potential, but he doesn't want me to buy. He imagines just us and our family. Why would he prefer a $1500/mo (150k-purchase cost) 2 BR 2 BA 1000 SF condo over a $250k 4 BR 2-3BA 2000 SF house where we rent out half and live for like $500/mo?
What tactics would you use with your spouse to get him or her interested in sharing a too-big house with nice people you choose that you may not even see frequently in order to pay a very low monthly net rent and maximize the ROI on your primary residence rehab? Thanks!
For him, it isn't about the money. "He imagines just us and our family." You haven't satisfied his "hot" button, whatever it may be. "he 'wanted to ensure our privacy.' " He has said what he wants and you haven't listened.
Wow, @Natalie Schanne, tough issue. I have had similar issues with getting my wife on board with investing in real estate. I doubt I could ever get her to agree to house hack. You probably need to have some pretty deep conversations on how you plan to get the things in life each of you want. Since I was the primary wage earner in our family I felt it was my duty to provide for the family especially retirement. As a result I did a lot of investing over the constant objections of my wife. I did see a lot of improvement in her attitude when I got a few lucky flip property returns. I got a $14K return once on a property I owned for less than 2 months, and on another I cleared almost $20K. It seems big fat checks help overcome some objections, but not all deals are big profits. I have been told that you cannot do this business unless your spouse is on board, but here I am with well over 20 years in investing and over 30 units and still doing it. I tried having her read Rich Dad Poor Dad, I tried explaining on paper, none of it seemed to work. There were more than a few strong disagreements. I guess I felt we had to have some deep conversations where I tried to explain how I believed it was neccesary for our eventual retirement. I showed how I figured cash flow like I would making a presentation to a banker. With time it has gotten better. My wife's fear was that something would go wrong and I would lose everything. My wife was raised to only put money in CDs or savings bonds. Never invest, never take a chance. Her father flew combat missions over Germany in WW2, and was very conservative in everything he did for his family.
There are quite a few threads on similar topics here.
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/103561-getting-spousal-or-significant-others-support,
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/62/topics/92088-spouse-support-for-investing
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/74982-unreceptive-spouse---how-to-get-them-on-board
OK I suck at linking hehe but try these links.
The end result is that things will not change if you do not take action, however you also have to listen. Why are they not on board? What do they fear or dislike about the idea? You must understand the reason for the opposition before you can address it in a meaningful way. You may end up having to partner with someone else or do the properties in your own name if they are not on board. I am sure there are things about your husbands life you found odd or unsettling, explain that real estate is also an important part of your life. It is part of your uniqueness that makes you who you are.
Please do not assume things will improve or try arguing, go deeper.
I wish you good luck,
Find a new spouse... kidding.
I too am looking to house-hack a MF near Princeton (you commented on my first post about it). Looking at what's out there in our market is discouraging.
Have you ever read "How to win friends and influence people"? Try to explain the opportunity to him in a way that makes him want it (I know that's easier said than done).
If all else fails, resort to "happy wife happy life". Good luck!
Natalie Vane Okay, it's Saturday night, I have a couple of long-shot ideas. And I really mean long-shots:
1.) In some markets you can find two free standing homes on the same lot. No shared walls (for privacy) but still multi-family to satisfy your house-hacking itch. If duplexes aren't prevalent this might be pie-in-the-sky but you never know.
2.) You have a baby on the way. Rent the other side of the duplex to a person you then employ as a full-time (or part-time) nanny. Any nanny will shatter the privacy barrier anyway. And it's definitely more private to have them in another duplex unit that a bedroom in your home.
Speaking as a married man with a 3 year old, the time to ask him to do something he's not onboard with (for privacy reasons) is NOT when a new bundle of joy arrives. He'll be working on 5 hours a sleep of night (if he's lucky) and you likely less. If a noisy neighbor through a shared wall stops him (or worse, your child) from getting their afternoon nap on Saturday...well...it won't be pretty :)
@Account Closed
I found a big 2200 SF+ split level house with two kitchens, two living rooms, and two entrances that would be 'effectively equivalent' to what we have now in a condo with a noisy family directly above us (that likely to hears our TV and bits of our conversations). Somehow he still thinks it's different. I'm left wondering if he can't see through the cosmetics of the ugly houses I've been showing him (like many retail buyers). This last one had a gutted upstairs kitchen area and damaged flooring, but that's why it's $50k+ less than the neighboring property sold for. As a flipper, I know how drastically a property can change with $30-50k of improvements in my area. He watches some flip shows with me but still gets disgusted by dirty carpet (even when I point out it's only a $2000 replacement expense). I've also been trying to convince him to buy a rehab house using the "Labrador puppy idea" he's been dreaming about for the past year because I'll be able to create a fenced yard for his current pug-beagle dog and the new puppy.
@Account Closed - Thank you. Good thoughts. 1st - I've only found two houses that were like this recently (two fully separate units). The first was near Princeton with a MIL suite/apartment above the garage worth maybe $1000-1500/mo for a 400k big house. This one would lead us to buying too much house for our needs since he'd never choose the MIL suite for us. The second was 2 houses on a lot (200k) in a quiet, pretty street in Trenton. At most we'd get $700-900/mo for the back 1 BR 1 BA unit. I believe this one is overpriced and won't appreciate much. Across the street, a foreclosure which is like the backyard cottage pre-rehab sold for $40k. Neither satisfied my goals of living with my family for near-free. 2nd - Good life lessons here. Obviously our marriage and our joint happiness is so much more important than becoming financially free a couple years earlier. I have no clue how sleep deprived I will be after baby comes! He's probably hoping all my investment dreams will fly out the window when I'm chasing around the little one. I have too many expensive degrees and this is the one way I imagine that I can really contribute to the family's finances because of my expertise in finance, engineering, construction, etc.
If the cosmetics thing continues to be an issue when we tour properties together, I am considering buying a 'rental-rehab BRRR' house (like the one I mentioned at the top of this post) using my above criteria with my independent investment money, fixing it by the time our lease is up in August, leasing half of it, and trying to convince him to move into it instead of re-renting the condo for $1500/mo. If he still isn't willing to consider moving into it, I can either sell it or lease the other half to get a reasonable return on my investment. I will just have to not ever vent about frustrations with this particular house flip (argh! crappy plumbing!) because he uses my complaints against me when I'm not truly upset given the discounted purchase price.
I've been married for 38 years.
I've stayed married by listening to my wife's needs. ;-)
Hi Natalie,
My husband is content to listen to my goals and okay with me using our mutual funds to acquire our first property, he was even okay with me continuing on this path after my first attempt at a duplex house hack fell through leaving us apartment hopping. He would not be okay in any situation or scenario renting out bedrooms in our home, especially since we have 2 toddlers. This comes down to figuring out where his limits are, which sounds like renting out part of your home, and where he's open to compromise. Have an honest conversation. I know my husband has zero interest in doing any hands on renovations on a flip property or a rental (though he acquired a lot of skills from our SFH we owned) , he only wants me looking at properties that I can afford to pay a contractor to renovate.
You sound like you are trying to house hack like a single professional, not as a married couple with children. Have you considered a 3 family or changing your property location to a nearby town that does have duplexes? Is your husband okay with you being a landlord at all or does he not like house hacking bc he doesn't want to near the tenants?
Natalie Vane kudos for trying to invest creatively, but I think compromise is in order here. It sounds like your husband is open to investing or even house hacking, just not with roommates. Given your life stage I would agree with him. The types of hacks you are describing (having roommates) don't seem like the best fit for a young couple with a growing family.
Keep looking and see if you can find something that you both will be happy with. Perhaps buy a more modest primary residence and then invest in a small SFR in another, cheaper market OR find a city where you can find a duplex or Triplex allowing you to have a wall separating you from your tenant.
I've had to work to get my husband on board with real estate investing too, so I can relate to how frustrating it is to have a vision that your spouse can't quite see - we're now working to close deals 7 and 8 and have found a good balance. To that end, perhaps he can also help YOU see things you would otherwise miss? Keep at it until you find a compromise...
@Natalie Schanne I am a HUGE promoter of house hacking
But you're married, want kids eventually, and want to do all this living with roommates?
@Natalie Schanne I think you're going to struggle to do this in Princeton. Pretty much any method of house-hacking in Princeton would involve some compromises, and it sounds like your husband would only be open to it if it were a perfect "very soundproofed large duplex" type situation.
I think you and I talked before about my mom house hacking in Princeton - it CAN be done. But even for her it is a compromise. She is in a big beautiful house on Parkside Drive with a wing that can basically be separated off by a locked door, but her wing doesn't have a kitchen. She has a microwave, minifridge, and coffee pot. It's fine for a single professor on the weekends but not a great situation for a young family. And I think that type of situation, or the occasional in-law suite, are the most you're likely to find. Although I have been to some Princeton homes with "pool houses" or "guest houses" that were equivalent to nice studio apartments! If you'd like to buy a small mansion... :)
Princeton is just such a prestige town that deals are going to be tough to find, and there just aren't duplexes anywhere near it. People there almost always buy more house than they need, no one is looking to economize.
I would love to see you make this work, though. Let me buy you a coffee next time I'm visiting home!
@NatalieVane said: In 2016, I moved to a new state, married the love of my life and we're expecting our first baby in late May.
Ok... this is not so much about real estate, as it is about being a wife & mama, first .... but as wives of husbands (mamas, daughters, sisters, etc...) in this business that so often entails family, many of us know it's kinda all interconnected in many ways.
It sounds like your husband is a great man.
Please always remember that this man has committed himself/his life to you, and it sounds like he wants to focus on being your husband and building a home for his wife and his new baby.
That's a beautiful blessing!
AND, Y'all are also still newlyweds! Lawdy mercy, honey, come here and post and learn and share, but mostly, get on back in the bedroom & focus on that amazing man, not on house hacking.
Be patient, kind, respectful & supportive of that man, that love of your life = HE is more important than money and material things. I'm not saying smart investments can't help make some things in life easier, but it doesn't have to happen as fast as it sounds like you want it to happen.
Spoken from a wife who's had to learn the long, frustrating uphill, hard way and still learning how -- to step back outta the way, relax, focus on being his wife & just let him lead me .... & later our children.....
and still learning new ways to work through things together; how to build up our marriage with love and honor and respect for my husband; also still learning how important it is to remember that we're on the same ship, together — often in deep, scary seas, and remember that he's my husband, not my child or brother and how, too often, I feel that I know what's best, and too often I try to force my opinion, or my wants, but also how in the end, I'm not always right and my way is not always best (or even all that often even all that good, when I really step back & open my heart & swallow my pride -- even when it felt so strongly that way before the arguments that I caused.
and how he likes to know that I respect that he's the captain of the ship, and that I trust him (even when sometimes feel that I'm right, it'll still be ok for me to let it go & leave it to him); and how important it is to him that he thinks I'm provided for, protected, loved, & even pleased & honored to be his wife / his first mate & even his cheerleader /
.... and as time has passed, I realize it's OK for me to let go of the illusion of control that I thought I had; and how nice it feels to me to be able to relax and be taken care of;
And how what a blessing it is to have a good man who wants to provide, protect, love and lead / be the head of our household; and how that for many [most¿] men that I've ever known not feel like they are being disrespected, or manipulated, or undermined (esp. not by their wife).
We've been together since we were 16 & 17yrs old / 30 yrs this month.
Honestly, when I first read your post ..... And in coming to this point as a natural earthy mama and many years of midwives, home births, La Leche League meetings/many years of nursing my kiddos on cue..... & being in touch with my God-designed natural femininity - it seems to me like you could be feeling the nesting hormones. Go have fun with nesting & focus that energy on your marriage and take care of yourself so that you can best take care of him and his baby. Caring for all the responsibilities + the future investing adventures will come when it's time. Good luck.
@Michelle J Olson - Thank you for speaking truth to me. Yes, my husband needs to be respected. He needs to know he's the captain of the ship. No amount of money can buy us marital happiness if I mess it up now by not clearly respecting him and his wishes. I'm just that negotiating type of person... I tend to get him to agree with me bit by bit by showing him a different way to invest such that we can have a different future net worth trajectory than his parents (who have made and spent a LOT of money.)
@Chris Purcell @Ericka G. @Samantha Magina @Gwen Fyfe - Thanks for all of your helpful thoughts and ideas. The truth is - I don't value my privacy or secrecy very much. I've had an extensive history of renting to people who mostly are either out of the house or in their bedrooms, so I often felt like I was alone even in a 5 BR house with 4 roommates. I've enjoyed their contributions to house decorating (like during Christmastime) and it's made me keep up the common spaces better. I dread the idea of staying at home all day with kiddo with nobody around.
I loved the statement about bribing him with a puppy so that you can live in house hack renovation, all when your child is about to arrive. It totally reminds me of how naive I was to the demands of having a child. You may want to revaluate any large changes until after your life completely changes.
@Natalie Schanne I admire your enthusiasm, and envy your forward thinking at a young age. House hacking is not something I could take on, but that is because of my physical limitations.
But I strongly encourage you to wait until after you've had your baby and have experienced what that REALLY means before beginning such an undertaking. You might be glad DH put on the brakes, at least until after you are getting a complete night's sleep. A construction zone is not really safe for newborns, infants, or toddlers.
So whether you really want to house hack or not with a baby coming soon is a completely different topic and up to you. When it comes to getting a spouse on board with your REI plans...I had my wife read rich dad poor dad and it worked awesome. She is now all in with me and we are quickly moving forward. In his case maybe it would be the new Set for Life book.
I feel your pain. Just know that this probably won't happen with him, so don't focus on that negative issue.
I have wanted for years to buy another home for us to live in, using a VA mortgage and sell the home we have now. But, she doesn't want to move, and probably never will.
So, I focus on her wonderful qualities and understand that marriage is a compromise. We agreed long ago that if either wanted to spend more than $100 on something, we would discuss it first. Now, we have moved that amount, but we have to agree or we don't do it.
Being married to her is more important than real estate.
@Natalie Schanne When I was starting my current relationship I had a large B&B to sell that had been my home with my Ex for 14 years. The duplex across the street came on the market and due to some extenuating circumstances I was able to buy it for well under market value after 3 contracts had fallen through on it.
My new partner had owned her own home for 25 years and was adamantly opposed to house hacking this duplex. However the relationship was new and she agreed to move there.
We have lived there 5.5 years now with one tenant who I brought with me from the previous property and was hand picked.
My partner is NOT supportive of my real estate investing because she is very risk averse and can’t stand the thought of having a large mortgage. She has rarely even seen any of my 25 units but if we’re out she will occasionally consent to driving by one of the properties or going to check for money from the coin op laundry.
I’ve just had to accept that this is my passion not hers. It is sometimes difficult because I only get maybe 2 minutes to talk real estate then have to stop. There are not any real estate meetups within 2 hours drive of me so I rarely get to talk shop.
She has come around a little bit seeing that many of our bills in the duplex are paid by the rent and we each get a little bit of money each year from the cash flow.
I would recommend trying to figure out ANYTHING that could attract your husband to the idea of house hacking and emphasize that. Most likely it should center around the financial benefits of doing so. If you can save $10,000/year figure out how much that savings will generate in retirement funds if you invest it for 25 years. Then invest it.
If you can’t come to agreement on the house hacking don’t give up your dreams of real estate. Continue doing flips or long term rentals on your own without him.
Don’t give up! I let a setback sideline my real estate investing for close to 24 years. I cringe every time I think about the wealth and income I gave up by quitting.
Youve got this! Good luck!