Escrow won't close

[Eugene Mitchell]

I bought a piece of property that ended up having five brothers that had to sign off on it they wanted nothing to do with the house so they signed quitclaim deeds (notarized) and one brother who signed over a grant deed. When I went to sell the property the new buyer wanted to get title insurance and the Escrow Company AKA also the title company ) Did thier checks and said I would need a notarized uninsured deed paper for each of the quitclaim and the grant deed guy as well. I downloaded the forms and got the notarized signatures. The Escrow lady was furious said their own notaries were the only ones who could do it and each person would have to fill out a "Statement of Fact" statement of facts from each of the people that had signed the quit claims the problem with this is that three of them that absolutely want nothing to do with the property and don't want to be bothered and are mad as hell because basically they had signed off on it and considered it done, and then not only did they want them to resign with their own notary but to fill out the "statement of fact" which asked a lot of personal questions that nobody wants to give the answers to this day and age let alone on a property that you are having nothing to do with anymore. From what I understand every time the house sells this is going to happen at what point will they not ask it anymore and what happens when they refuse ? One of them told the escrow lady to go f off he wasn't giving her the information and she just informed me (as snooty possible ) as possible that she would not be able to close without it what do I do in this situation

[Theresa Harris]

I'd talk to another company.  The title is now in your name, so who the previous owner was shouldn't matter.

[Derrick E.]

Definitely find another title company.

[Peter Walther]

I'm assuming you purchased without getting a title insurance policy yourself, if I'm wrong, I suggest you submit a claim to the insurer.  If I'm correct, this situation is why you should have.  The insurer would have made these requirements then and you wouldn't be having this problem.  I suspect the new title examiner has found something in the chain of title or the execution and notarization of your deed that makes them unwilling to rely on it to issue your buyer a policy without exception for the concern(s).  You might tell your grantors that if they don't assist you now, you may have to bring a quiet title action to resolve the issue and that might make their lives even more complicated.  Of course, you might want to consider the possibility that there is a real legal reason why they don't want anything to do with the problem, like they didn't actually have the right to give you a deed.

[Peter Walther]

I just noticed you wrote the settlement agent wants an uninsured deed affidavit so yeah; you didn't get a title policy when you got your deed.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Peter Walther:

I'm assuming you purchased without getting a title insurance policy yourself, if I'm wrong, I suggest you submit a claim to the insurer.  If I'm correct, this situation is why you should have.  The insurer would have made these requirements then and you wouldn't be having this problem.  I suspect the new title examiner has found something in the chain of title or the execution and notarization of your deed that makes them unwilling to rely on it to issue your buyer a policy without exception for the concern(s).  You might tell your grantors that if they don't assist you now, you may have to bring a quiet title action to resolve the issue and that might make their lives even more complicated.  Of course, you might want to consider the possibility that there is a real legal reason why they don't want anything to do with the problem, like they didn't actually have the right to give you a deed.

with all the fraud these days and wholesaler deals.. unless you have the TITLE company themselves do the QC many simply wont take on this liablity.. and I highly doubt the escrow officer was Furious LOL.. Also many title companies TODAY require a KNOWN notary.. so either they do it or they send you a vetted mobile notary that will cost you 150 to 200 for each sig.
and yes this is why you dont buy the way the OP bought.. now he has a to chase his tail all to save a few bucks up front on title and escrow fees..  Hopefully others on BP will take heed and not do deals this way unless they intend to keep them for life.. And or never  borrow against them.. if your keeping it for life and never going to borrow against it thats another story.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

I'd talk to another company.  The title is now in your name, so who the previous owner was shouldn't matter.

Theresa not really accurate.. see my answer above things in the title and escrow world have changed dramatically in the last 10 years or so.. And if its CA. Notary then those signing also have to give thumb prints .. which some folks are really squirmy with they dont want their thumb prints out in the public realm.. this all changed about 20 years ago or so with all the mortgage fraud of the 90s.  And Again CA specific I have not seen another state that I do business in require thumb prints and I do deals in about 30 states.

[Theresa Harris]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

I'd talk to another company.  The title is now in your name, so who the previous owner was shouldn't matter.

Theresa not really accurate.. see my answer above things in the title and escrow world have changed dramatically in the last 10 years or so.. And if its CA. Notary then those signing also have to give thumb prints .. which some folks are really squirmy with they dont want their thumb prints out in the public realm.. this all changed about 20 years ago or so with all the mortgage fraud of the 90s.  And Again CA specific I have not seen another state that I do business in require thumb prints and I do deals in about 30 states.

 Thanks.  If I was the previous owner(s), I admit I'd be annoyed.  Never heard of prints being required.

[John Clark]

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

I'd talk to another company.  The title is now in your name, so who the previous owner was shouldn't matter.

Theresa not really accurate.. see my answer above things in the title and escrow world have changed dramatically in the last 10 years or so.. And if its CA. Notary then those signing also have to give thumb prints .. which some folks are really squirmy with they dont want their thumb prints out in the public realm.. this all changed about 20 years ago or so with all the mortgage fraud of the 90s.  And Again CA specific I have not seen another state that I do business in require thumb prints and I do deals in about 30 states.

 Thanks.  If I was the previous owner(s), I admit I'd be annoyed.  Never heard of prints being required.

Cook County (Chicago) requires it too. The notary’s information and the prints are given to the recorder of deeds but are not released save under court order.

[Dan H.]

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

I'd talk to another company.  The title is now in your name, so who the previous owner was shouldn't matter.

Theresa not really accurate.. see my answer above things in the title and escrow world have changed dramatically in the last 10 years or so.. And if its CA. Notary then those signing also have to give thumb prints .. which some folks are really squirmy with they dont want their thumb prints out in the public realm.. this all changed about 20 years ago or so with all the mortgage fraud of the 90s.  And Again CA specific I have not seen another state that I do business in require thumb prints and I do deals in about 30 states.

 Thanks.  If I was the previous owner(s), I admit I'd be annoyed.  Never heard of prints being required.

 In CA the notaries want thumb prints not just for RE related but I believe everything and going back at least 15 years.   I did power of attorney in 2009 that notary required a thumb print.  

Because all my need for notary are in CA, I was unaware that this practice was not everywhere.  

[Jeff S.]

Why in the world would you buy a property without title insurance, @Eugene Mitchell? And with 5 heirs? Have you lost your mind? How do you know your ownership is clean?

Good for you though. I bet you saved $2,000. Against how much did you pay for the property?

You’re not in a position to complain that title is doing what they would have done for you if you hadn’t become a title do-it-yourselfer. The only good news for you is that no one else is claiming ownership. At least so far.

Sorry, I’m not sympathetic. Title fraud is real. We loaned on a property that was stolen because of a fake notary. Of course, we had title insurance and were made whole. I wouldn’t buy a property from my mom without proper title insurance. Of course, my mom wouldn’t complain about providing some personal info or, heaven forbid, a thumbprint. How unreasonable.

Many escrow companies still accept grant deeds by mail. That should change. Of course, title wants to use their own notary. Our lender’s instructions now require all acknowledgments by a notary employed by the title or escrow company. Even that’s an accommodation. Our lawyer recommends acknowledgments by a title employee only.

No sensible buyer buys a property without title insurance and it certainly looks like your buyer is sensible. You messed up and are complaining that the title company is being restrictive and not cheerfully accepting verbal abuse from your sellers. Be happy they haven’t told you to take a hike.

You might change your attitude toward title. You pay them to accept huge risks.  Work with them and try to work with your prior sellers. If not, how much is a quiet title claim?

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @John Clark:

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

I'd talk to another company.  The title is now in your name, so who the previous owner was shouldn't matter.

Theresa not really accurate.. see my answer above things in the title and escrow world have changed dramatically in the last 10 years or so.. And if its CA. Notary then those signing also have to give thumb prints .. which some folks are really squirmy with they dont want their thumb prints out in the public realm.. this all changed about 20 years ago or so with all the mortgage fraud of the 90s.  And Again CA specific I have not seen another state that I do business in require thumb prints and I do deals in about 30 states.

 Thanks.  If I was the previous owner(s), I admit I'd be annoyed.  Never heard of prints being required.

Cook County (Chicago) requires it too. The notary’s information and the prints are given to the recorder of deeds but are not released save under court order.

John did this change recently.. I dont recall that when I sold in Cook county a few years back maybe I just did not take note of it since I am used to it on all my CA deals.

[Eugene Mitchell]

I got the property from one of my clients in my Banking capacity.he Loaned money on it a d subsequently got the property. It's in an abandoned state. Got it at a really good deal. I'm not just talking about them notarized wich we already did 2x but filling out the " Statement of fact" paper wich wants your drivers license your ,sdn all address for last ten years all spouses and children's info your employment history and a narrative about why you don't want the property plus your notary and thumb print. You can't tell me you would be OK with someone showing up at your door wanting that everything this property sells .On a property you wanted nothing to do with you signed off on. And my question is how many times does this go on in the future? These guys should feel it's OK to keep doling out through info for all these title people. I get that title insurance e saved you once but really I should be thanking them , no I think they have made themselves into this role where they want everyone to believe nothing can be done without them and the time they take, it takes them 2 days to walk a piece of paper across a room.As fir the lady she should be helping her clients the people who pay for thier services to resolve these type issues not act like she's the great almighty God of real-estate transactions who no sale can happen without her blessing.  And why even have notary if we aren't going to believe them. It should not take 30 to 40 days to close a sale, it's the computer age and now thar they have ingrained themselves into the process so much they are feel they can take however long they want and we have let them. I do t what to argue the merits of the importance of title searching for title insurance I get it you love them you want to marry them they saved you money unhappy for you I have my opinion you have yours I'm just saying would you take a step back and you look at the amount of BS that they throw in there with what they're doing and the fact that they do forget who works for who it's crazy that being said I'm just wondering how long this is going to go on for every time the house sells and if you do have some of that doesn't want to sign off as is their right not to want to give off all the information especially in the climate of fraud that you talked about is there a solution

[Eugene Mitchell]

Please disregard the bad grammatics I'm in my car dictating through this on Android auto so some of it's coming out kind of garbled I'm sorry but I think you got my point

[Peter Walther]

Quote from @Eugene Mitchell:

I got the property from one of my clients in my Banking capacity.he Loaned money on it a d subsequently got the property. It's in an abandoned state. Got it at a really good deal. I'm not just talking about them notarized wich we already did 2x but filling out the " Statement of fact" paper wich wants your drivers license your ,sdn all address for last ten years all spouses and children's info your employment history and a narrative about why you don't want the property plus your notary and thumb print. You can't tell me you would be OK with someone showing up at your door wanting that everything this property sells .On a property you wanted nothing to do with you signed off on. And my question is how many times does this go on in the future? These guys should feel it's OK to keep doling out through info for all these title people. I get that title insurance e saved you once but really I should be thanking them , no I think they have made themselves into this role where they want everyone to believe nothing can be done without them and the time they take, it takes them 2 days to walk a piece of paper across a room.As fir the lady she should be helping her clients the people who pay for thier services to resolve these type issues not act like she's the great almighty God of real-estate transactions who no sale can happen without her blessing.  And why even have notary if we aren't going to believe them. It should not take 30 to 40 days to close a sale, it's the computer age and now thar they have ingrained themselves into the process so much they are feel they can take however long they want and we have let them. I do t what to argue the merits of the importance of title searching for title insurance I get it you love them you want to marry them they saved you money unhappy for you I have my opinion you have yours I'm just saying would you take a step back and you look at the amount of BS that they throw in there with what they're doing and the fact that they do forget who works for who it's crazy that being said I'm just wondering how long this is going to go on for every time the house sells and if you do have some of that doesn't want to sign off as is their right not to want to give off all the information especially in the climate of fraud that you talked about is there a solution

No where in your screed did you give an explanation for why you didn't get a title policy when you bought the property from your friend, all you did was complain that the title company is being unreasonable and uncaring by refusing to help you clear up a problem of your own making.  That's not their job.

[Peter Walther]

Quote from @Peter Walther:

Quote from @Eugene Mitchell:

I got the property from one of my clients in my Banking capacity.he Loaned money on it a d subsequently got the property. It's in an abandoned state. Got it at a really good deal. I'm not just talking about them notarized wich we already did 2x but filling out the " Statement of fact" paper wich wants your drivers license your ,sdn all address for last ten years all spouses and children's info your employment history and a narrative about why you don't want the property plus your notary and thumb print. You can't tell me you would be OK with someone showing up at your door wanting that everything this property sells .On a property you wanted nothing to do with you signed off on. And my question is how many times does this go on in the future? These guys should feel it's OK to keep doling out through info for all these title people. I get that title insurance e saved you once but really I should be thanking them , no I think they have made themselves into this role where they want everyone to believe nothing can be done without them and the time they take, it takes them 2 days to walk a piece of paper across a room.As fir the lady she should be helping her clients the people who pay for thier services to resolve these type issues not act like she's the great almighty God of real-estate transactions who no sale can happen without her blessing.  And why even have notary if we aren't going to believe them. It should not take 30 to 40 days to close a sale, it's the computer age and now thar they have ingrained themselves into the process so much they are feel they can take however long they want and we have let them. I do t what to argue the merits of the importance of title searching for title insurance I get it you love them you want to marry them they saved you money unhappy for you I have my opinion you have yours I'm just saying would you take a step back and you look at the amount of BS that they throw in there with what they're doing and the fact that they do forget who works for who it's crazy that being said I'm just wondering how long this is going to go on for every time the house sells and if you do have some of that doesn't want to sign off as is their right not to want to give off all the information especially in the climate of fraud that you talked about is there a solution

No where in your screed did you give an explanation for why you didn't get a title policy when you bought the property from your friend, all you did was complain that the title company is being unreasonable and uncaring by refusing to help you clear up a problem of your own making.  That's not their job.

Once a title policy is issued, if there is a covered problem in the future, getting corrective documents or bringing a quiet title action becomes the insurers problem, not the insured's.

[Eugene Mitchell]

Quote from @Peter Walther:

Quote from @Eugene Mitchell:

I got the property from one of my clients in my Banking capacity.he Loaned money on it a d subsequently got the property. It's in an abandoned state. Got it at a really good deal. I'm not just talking about them notarized wich we already did 2x but filling out the " Statement of fact" paper wich wants your drivers license your ,sdn all address for last ten years all spouses and children's info your employment history and a narrative about why you don't want the property plus your notary and thumb print. You can't tell me you would be OK with someone showing up at your door wanting that everything this property sells .On a property you wanted nothing to do with you signed off on. And my question is how many times does this go on in the future? These guys should feel it's OK to keep doling out through info for all these title people. I get that title insurance e saved you once but really I should be thanking them , no I think they have made themselves into this role where they want everyone to believe nothing can be done without them and the time they take, it takes them 2 days to walk a piece of paper across a room.As fir the lady she should be helping her clients the people who pay for thier services to resolve these type issues not act like she's the great almighty God of real-estate transactions who no sale can happen without her blessing.  And why even have notary if we aren't going to believe them. It should not take 30 to 40 days to close a sale, it's the computer age and now thar they have ingrained themselves into the process so much they are feel they can take however long they want and we have let them. I do t what to argue the merits of the importance of title searching for title insurance I get it you love them you want to marry them they saved you money unhappy for you I have my opinion you have yours I'm just saying would you take a step back and you look at the amount of BS that they throw in there with what they're doing and the fact that they do forget who works for who it's crazy that being said I'm just wondering how long this is going to go on for every time the house sells and if you do have some of that doesn't want to sign off as is their right not to want to give off all the information especially in the climate of fraud that you talked about is there a solution

No where in your screed did you give an explanation for why you didn't get a title policy when you bought the property from your friend, all you did was complain that the title company is being unreasonable and uncaring by refusing to help you clear up a problem of your own making.  That's not their job.

 I didn't get a title policy because I didn't know I needed one the purchase came up suddenly. And even if I had they still will go to the guys every time the property sells that to me is un reasonable. No one said they were caring or un caring that's your verbiage to make it seem like I'm being over sensitive. I just wanted some advise about how many times they would do this and any work around. Thank you for posting your opinion of how great the title companies are and for not answering the question I did ask. Please no need to respond ,it will be another snide editorial about your love of title companies. I will figure it out . 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Eugene Mitchell:

I got the property from one of my clients in my Banking capacity.he Loaned money on it a d subsequently got the property. It's in an abandoned state. Got it at a really good deal. I'm not just talking about them notarized wich we already did 2x but filling out the " Statement of fact" paper wich wants your drivers license your ,sdn all address for last ten years all spouses and children's info your employment history and a narrative about why you don't want the property plus your notary and thumb print. You can't tell me you would be OK with someone showing up at your door wanting that everything this property sells .On a property you wanted nothing to do with you signed off on. And my question is how many times does this go on in the future? These guys should feel it's OK to keep doling out through info for all these title people. I get that title insurance e saved you once but really I should be thanking them , no I think they have made themselves into this role where they want everyone to believe nothing can be done without them and the time they take, it takes them 2 days to walk a piece of paper across a room.As fir the lady she should be helping her clients the people who pay for thier services to resolve these type issues not act like she's the great almighty God of real-estate transactions who no sale can happen without her blessing.  And why even have notary if we aren't going to believe them. It should not take 30 to 40 days to close a sale, it's the computer age and now thar they have ingrained themselves into the process so much they are feel they can take however long they want and we have let them. I do t what to argue the merits of the importance of title searching for title insurance I get it you love them you want to marry them they saved you money unhappy for you I have my opinion you have yours I'm just saying would you take a step back and you look at the amount of BS that they throw in there with what they're doing and the fact that they do forget who works for who it's crazy that being said I'm just wondering how long this is going to go on for every time the house sells and if you do have some of that doesn't want to sign off as is their right not to want to give off all the information especially in the climate of fraud that you talked about is there a solution

well its apparent your not well versed on how title companies work etc.. if there is multiple heirs and or similar names this is standard procedure.. Ask anyone named Smith or Jones that does a lot of real estate.

[Peter Walther]

Quote from @Eugene Mitchell:

Quote from @Peter Walther:

Quote from @Eugene Mitchell:

I got the property from one of my clients in my Banking capacity.he Loaned money on it a d subsequently got the property. It's in an abandoned state. Got it at a really good deal. I'm not just talking about them notarized wich we already did 2x but filling out the " Statement of fact" paper wich wants your drivers license your ,sdn all address for last ten years all spouses and children's info your employment history and a narrative about why you don't want the property plus your notary and thumb print. You can't tell me you would be OK with someone showing up at your door wanting that everything this property sells .On a property you wanted nothing to do with you signed off on. And my question is how many times does this go on in the future? These guys should feel it's OK to keep doling out through info for all these title people. I get that title insurance e saved you once but really I should be thanking them , no I think they have made themselves into this role where they want everyone to believe nothing can be done without them and the time they take, it takes them 2 days to walk a piece of paper across a room.As fir the lady she should be helping her clients the people who pay for thier services to resolve these type issues not act like she's the great almighty God of real-estate transactions who no sale can happen without her blessing.  And why even have notary if we aren't going to believe them. It should not take 30 to 40 days to close a sale, it's the computer age and now thar they have ingrained themselves into the process so much they are feel they can take however long they want and we have let them. I do t what to argue the merits of the importance of title searching for title insurance I get it you love them you want to marry them they saved you money unhappy for you I have my opinion you have yours I'm just saying would you take a step back and you look at the amount of BS that they throw in there with what they're doing and the fact that they do forget who works for who it's crazy that being said I'm just wondering how long this is going to go on for every time the house sells and if you do have some of that doesn't want to sign off as is their right not to want to give off all the information especially in the climate of fraud that you talked about is there a solution

No where in your screed did you give an explanation for why you didn't get a title policy when you bought the property from your friend, all you did was complain that the title company is being unreasonable and uncaring by refusing to help you clear up a problem of your own making.  That's not their job.

 I didn't get a title policy because I didn't know I needed one the purchase came up suddenly. And even if I had they still will go to the guys every time the property sells that to me is un reasonable. No one said they were caring or un caring that's your verbiage to make it seem like I'm being over sensitive. I just wanted some advise about how many times they would do this and any work around. Thank you for posting your opinion of how great the title companies are and for not answering the question I did ask. Please no need to respond ,it will be another snide editorial about your love of title companies. I will figure it out . 

You don't "need" title insurance (as in it's not required in order to purchase property) but as you've read in this thread, it's highly recommended.  I can't foretell the future, but I suspect the requirement for the information from your grantors will probably be a onetime thing. The next examiner will see the title has been insured and unless another defect is found, will rely on your sale transaction.  You wrote (One of them told the escrow lady to go f off he wasn't giving her the information and she just informed me (as snooty possible) that she would not be able to close without it).  Seems a little sensitive to me since I suspect she's just doing her job and isn't trying to hold your deal up unnecessarily.  She may have also been a little annoyed that your grantor just told her to f off.  Nowhere did I write that title companies are great, in fact I'm more aware than most that they're just people in a particular business trying to make a buck.  They're not trying to save the world or salvage your investment.