All Forum Posts by: William C.

@Cason Acor I find it hard to believe We’d be able to win a court battle trying to reverse a sale. Nor will it be worth the time and money for my buyer at that point. It’d be easier to just buy it for the price the wholesaler would agree to, and chalk it up as a “cost”. But if you have seen it before or have been in this situation I am all ears. I just feel the seller (the bank) would be more likely to nullify the current contract based on the fact these buyers are clearly flipping it, and marketing it while not the owners.

I’m basically giving live updates...which might be adding to the confusion.

Agent for buyer just responded to my buyers latest offer. Agent for buyer replied “Thanks I received the message..please tell your buyer she declines and has full asking at this time..thanks”

So to summarize for those confused. Buyers agent (who is also a buyer in a deal) listed a home for sale on the MLS while they were still under contract. "Wholesaling" as some would call it. She just admitted they are receiving offers on a property they don't actually own.

A. I don’t believe for a second they have an offer for full asking.

B. I just keep adding to the evidence of wrongdoing. It’s been established they don’t own it by a title search, and then by her broker. Yet she still admits to fielding offers.

C. I am trying to get her to talk about it as much as I can, because every text I get is further proof of the fraud they are trying to pull.

I'm trying to look at it from an unbiased perspective to make sure I'm not making unfair accusations. It appears it was an auction on Hubzu. And the auction has ended, and this "buyer" was the "winner". What I find to be wrong, or fraudulent, is to then immediately relist 4 days later, on the MLS for $75k more, in an attempt to line up buyers before you ever have to close. And then to lie, say you own it, and the continue to negotiate offers, even after it's been made clear by your broker that your breaking the law, is just mind boggling. If these "buyers" simply closed on the auction, THEN relisted, all the power to them. They capitalized on a market inefficiency. Problem is that's not the case. And by marketing while under contract, you can limit your exposure as an "investor" by guaranteeing a backend buyer, before ever having to close on the deal. And if you fail to find an end buyer prior to settlement, you simply back out of the deal and move on. And most likely get your deposit back because these banks never want to fight over $1000 deposit check.

So with all that said, and all the rants above, including my OP, I hate to admit it but I can see how this may play out in the buyers favor, and they succeed in purchasing his thing only to relist the next day for $75k more. I’m hoping and praying that the way they have remarketed it, breached their contract with the seller, and the fact Iv been able to make it clear to the bank that there is another buyer, willing to pay even more, that they do the right thing, and Net the seller the most money, while allowing the buyer to buy, and cutting out the scum in the middle. We shall see. I really wish this wasn’t a house my buyer tried to buy 3 years ago as a short sale.... I also admit we both dropped the ball by missing the auction in the first place. That’s what happens when you have too many deals going on at once, you get distracted. Things slip through the cracks. The more I think this through, the more I can live with the outcome, and the more I’ll have to place the blame on my buyer and myself. But I still think wholesaling like this in general needs to stop, ESPECIALLY at the expense of Sally homeowner. It’s kinda hard to make a case this “seller” US Bank is going to suffer great losses if they don’t accept the higher offer from the real end buyer.

It’s also why “real estate investor” is essentially a 4 letter word.

I really do appreciate all of the input. That’s why I love this site.

Id love to hear from a legitimate, fair, honest wholesaler to chime in and tell me what they think should be done in this situation.

 Hubzu is not the issue.  They are the seller.  Its the buyer trying to sell a home they don't own.

Hard to follow me?  sorry.. there is a lot going on, but its a standard "wholesale scam at its finest.  basically buyer puts foreclosure under contract.  Buyer lists property for sale, but does not own property.  Buyer then receives offers on property for more than they offered to purchase for.   Then they know to follow through with purchase with a huge payday in the backend.    If "buyer" does not receive any offers, they simply walk away, and move onto the next scam. The buyers agent told me the buyer "owned" the property.  They do not.  I just pulled up the sellers agreement.  Maybe you all can tell me if this is good enough language for the "seller" to terminate.  

Fake listing has been removed.

UPDATE: agents broker just called and claimed a "new" agent had a seller who has "equitable interest" in a property, and she thought she had the right to market it for sale on the MLS. This is BS. They were trying to find buyers willing to pay $75k more than they did before closing. If they couldn't, they simply walk away. If they do, great, they make $75k. This is why my goal in life is to bring scammers like this to the light, and make sure they never succeed in taking advantage of people like this in the future.

PLEASE...does anyone have any ideas of how I can stop the original sale? They committed fraud, is this enough for the seller to cancel? My buyer is willing to beat their offer, willing to have repair money for hard, basically anything that will make the seller comfortable enough to cancel a contract with one buyer to enter into one with another. Any advice? Thai right here is why investors get a bad name. Trying to “flip” a property for $75k with no risk, and take advantage of buyer and sellers by making misrepresentations.

I also have to walk a fine line. Do I go after these scammers with the full letter of the law? And clearly piss them off? What if they actually buy it....they’ll never sell to my buyer, at least not at a reasonable price.

@Jay Hinrichs Hubzu has no idea this is happening. Any deal Iv done with them had language in the contract that did no allow it to be assigned, or wholesaled. I contacted the original broker, who has the listing with Hubzu, and she confirmed the other broker who is trying to market it illegally, is in fact breaking the law.

Bottom line is I need to stop the sale. I know it hasn't happened. I'm just not sure if I can step in. If they have a valid agreement of sale to purchase, they may the the right to act on it and actually close. BUT I'm hoping if I reveal their intention to "flip" it, and the fact they have been marketing it on the MLS while not actually owning it, that Hubzu will cancel their agreement, and accept mine. Should know more tomorrow.

@Jay Hinrichs I'm guessing...but it looks like they are trying to get an agreement of sale on a house they don't own. Or at least market it as if they own it. Then they would close, and resell days later. Can't market a home you don't own on our MLS. Nor can you lie as a real estate agent and say they own it, when they really don't.

@Theresa Harris I offered to buy the assignment actually. The broker told me to “move on”. He knows I can’t buy the contract. It worked with this bank before. They don’t allow you to assign, for this exact reason.

@Lori Greene hoping I don’t need to go down the attorney route. I think once I bring light to the situation and the agent and the bank finds out what they are doing they’ll drop the agreement of sale. We’ll see.