All Forum Posts by: William C.

 Your close, except you missed the part about the agent/buyer misrepresenting that why were in fact, the owner, and not a party under contract to purchase the property.  You may have also missed the breach of contract between buyer and seller when they gave access to us to view the property as an end buyer.  Or also when they breached the contract by either attempting to, or actually assigning the contract, which this seller explicitly forbids.

I see your point.  I may seem like a hot headed disgruntled agent that is upset we didn't win the original auction.  And that may all be true.  Fact is, they marketed the property, as their own.  Illegal.  When I called them on it, they lied even more.  When they were told by their broker they could not do such a thing, she still engages in negotiations on a property, she does not own.  All illegal.  And thankfully the real sellers agent agrees, and is cancelling the contract.  I will be the first to admit had they not ever relisted the property, my buyer would not have realized this thing was listed and sold....until they chose to market it as the rightful owners.  So my frustration and disgust is out the clear fraud and deceit by the agent/buyer.  Play by the rules, that's all I ask.  

And Yes I agree 100%, the seller should and will hopefully cancel the contract, and go to back up offers, or relist the property, and award it to the highest bidder, whether that be my buyer or not.  I will also be the first to admit my buyer does not have any right to the property at this point.   

 I would never rip a seller off and collect $75k of their equity at the table, having done no improvements to a property.  I know for a fact homes sell for more money when more people know about them, not some "wholesalers" cash buyer list.  So your example falls on deaf ears.  I am the anti wholesaler, and anti cash buyer.  We offer sellers who need cash, a cash offer,  but we also offer them a partnership deal in the fix and flip, where they are the beneficiary when the home sells for 120% of market value.  I'm not out to make a quick buck, which is why I am able to sleep at night knowing I am doing the right thing. If they NEED to have the cash that day, no questions asked, so be it, we'll give them the cash.  We make ALL of their options clear to them, and make sure they know how each one will affect them. 

I would also not be in this thread has this buyer simply closed on the property, and THEN relisted it. End of story. They copy and pasted the banks pictures and MLS listing, word for word, 4 days after it went Pending. There is a right way, and a wrong way to do things. Just because others think ripping people off to steal $75k, and consider them the BP hero of the week, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. In fact Id argue BP needs to be held more accountable for the misinformation they allow. I understand its a forum, anyone can say anything. But on Podcasts where wholesalers are featured, they could probably do a better job of clarifying legal and illegal. It's not too hard to step back and ask yourself if what you are doing is fair to all parties involved. Wholesalers hate me, and they should. its clear by some of the responses. I love it to be honest. Just like late night infomercials of no money down investing have become American culture, I pledge to educate the entire world of the scam artists so they cease to exist. Lofty goals I admit. But I have a feeling as the Truth begins to spread, more and more outlets will be willing to listen to my story, and how people can avoid being taken advantage of.

If they have the sellers blessing to market, good for them, have at it champ. Not the case here.  Nor in a lot of cases. So your talking apples im talking oranges.  A quick search on BP will bring back countless results of "newbies" asking for ways to keep the sale price a secret to the seller in a wholesale deal.  That just makes me LOL, then want to puke.

Let me repeat myself.  By all means, PURCHASE a property, then remarket for a profit all you want.  But to lie about ownership, play games and refer to equitable interest, bring zero dollars to the table in a double close, act like it was a newbie mistake when you were licensed for 5 years.....All these fraudulent practices will be brought to the light.   

 LOL.  okay dude. thanks for the input.  Agent or not, I expect people to act in good faith and be honest, and truthful.  Iv admitted Im biased.  Iv admitted Im emotional.  Iv admitted I could see the scammers ending up with the property in the end.   I have also admitted my buyer does not have the right to the property, I feel it should be relisted, or backup offers reviewed.  If my buyer loses, fair and square, so be it.   I have every right to try to stop what is wrong in this world, more specifically the industry I chose to work in.   

Thankfully it appears the actual listing agent representing the seller feels the right thing should be done as well, and is working to cancel the contract.  Evil does not always have to prevail.

UPDATE: 

Real agent asked me to place back up offer.  She is working to have the contract cancelled, and will move to backup offers or relist the property.  

Still not out of the woods yet.  But is probably the best response I could have asked for.

I understand your point of view, and appreciate the input.  I am certainly biased in the situation, and can see how it may go both ways. 

I am not claiming my buyer had any right to the property.  Scammers need to be stopped, bottom line.  

I disagree agents are flat out lying about ownership on a daily basis.  There is no interpretation needed.  "Do they own it?"  "Yes."  That's pretty easy to interpret.   

We've made an offer, $30k more than they are paying.  They declined, as the have a "better offer in the table".  More lies and deceit.   Another attempt to drive up the sale price before they even own it. I refuse to allow my buyer to offer anymore at this point.  He is just giving them what they need, justification to close on the deal.  Otherwise they just cancel, come on lets not be naive, we know how this game is played.  

And now I have to walk a tight rope making sure I don't tip them off that I'm on to their scam, so that if they do succeed they will actually work with my buyer?  I mean, I've been successful so far.  They declined my offer as of late last night, well after her broker informed her she was breaking the law, and the fake listing was removed.   So trust me, I understand the 'game'.  Seems like a pretty unfair game in my opinion. 

So as she continues to negotiate on a property they do not own, you see nothing wrong here?

The fake owner as I'll call her from now on, gave me the LB combo. Yes, shes giving out the sellers LB, and no, she was not present for the showing. Furthermore, she knew EXACTLY what she was doing wrong. I first called our centralized showing desk for the info and it was not in their system. Weird. The MLS read "contact agent directly". She knew it would set off a red flag if she had showing instructions in the system. Again, not a new agent making a 'mistake' This is a veteran scammer. So we spent 3 hours in the thing, my buyer has his contractors come back and go through. We run the numbers, blah blah blah. It wasn't until I got on the MLS when I discovered the scam....It's just flat out misrepresentation, Oh and it's also another breach of their contract with the bank.

I hear you regarding the sale. I fear the worst as well. I'll do my best to put up a stink, all the way to the real estate commission if that's what it comes to. I'm hoping that if fake agent has financial interest in the deal as a partner which her broker indicated, that I'll be able to use that to bring it to a stop. Otherwise the 'buyer' which is an LLC, can claim the fake selling agent was acting without their consent...which is obviously more lies, but would be tough to prove in court. And again, this will never end up in court, at least not from my buyers or my end.

The owner is a bank, if it were an actual person, I probably wouldn't even be on BP, Id be knocking on the door of their house and this would be an easy win for my buyer and I.  Might be hard to convince a bank to cancel the sale of a foreclosed property.  So I'm prepared for that outcome, and preparing my buyers as well.  I'm hoping the real listing agent does the right thing, acts in the real sellers best interest, acts in everyone's best interest, and cancels the contract.  Allowing them to win only perpetuates this scam.  I'm not even saying my buyer has to be the one to purchase the place.  The fake owners claim to have multiple offers, so put it back up for sale and let the market decide.  If we allow these scammers to get away with this stuff, they'll continue to do it.   There is only one way to put a stop to it, and that's put a stop to it.  I'm tempted be the first person to start running midnight infomercials. and facebook Ads telling everyone the truth about how these 'no money' down real estate gurus work.  I can't even logon to that site anymore without seeing 5 ads in my feed from the next guru with all the answers to  overnight real estate riches.  I am more passionate about putting all these scammers out of business than I am about actually selling homes.  I'll get off my soap box for now and keep everyone posted.  I am trying not to be overzealous and let the real listing agent get back to me.  I sent a 2 emails this weekend as the situation changed and new information came to light.   I am empathetic that she probably has 100 listings and this is the last thing she feels like dealing with.

This is my last post for the night, hoping I wake up to some good news, and if not we'll just move onto the next one.  

Just shooting from the hip here, but if the "agent" is also a partner in the deal as confirmed by text messages and broker.  The state licensing commission will be compelled to step in.  It was mentioned earlier.  And as I ponder this is seems to make the most sense.  Why even have licensing requirements, if you are not going to enforce the rules.   Agents cannot lie about who owns a property, that's class number 1.  Oh I completely forgot to  call the broker out as a liar as well.  He blamed the mistake on her being a "new" agent.  I happened to look up her deal history when researching this debacle and she has sales in 2017 and 2018, albeit very few.  3 years licensed is hardly new in my book.  She knows exactly what scam she is running.

Iv had enough. Its my mission on earth to bring all scammers, liars, and fake wholesalers down.   As well as scum bag agents who are out for a quick buck. I am putting my flag in the sand today.  I actually put it in the sand last week after listening to a Gary Vee podcast about speaking the TRUTH, even when its not in our best SHORT term interest.  As an agent and investor, my truth is going to be to expose the scum.  I happen to think this is not a coincidence this is all playing out a week later like this.  Really wish I would have written a post about it then, would have been a lot more believable.   

Amazingly I started writing these "Truths" about real estate in my iphone in Notes....Looks like I can prove it, its dated Thursday, we discovered this property at lunch on Friday.  There is a reason this deal was brought into my life.  You all heard it hear first.

 As a broker....what would you do in the sellers agents position?   Sweep it under the rug, or get your seller top dollar?

Never said we were injured.  Never said we'd sue.  But deceived, yes.  My buyer can sue anyone for anything, doesn't mean he'll win.   Didn't I imply I wouldn't be going that route?  

Nevertheless they explicitly breached the contract the seller makes them sign.  At least in 2 ways, maybe even more.  The seller has every right to cancel and accept our offer for $30k more.  Why wouldn't they?

What about the message I have in writing saying they own the property?  Is that not considered fraud?   Deceit?  

If not fraud, then what?  

Trust me, I won't be getting an attorney involved, nor will my buyer.   He wants the property.  If your read the entire thread you'd see that I actually can see how this plays out in the scum bags favor.  But thanks for your input.  I have faith that when I speak with the sellers agent tomorrow she'll be happy to cancel their contract on 2 maybe 3 different breaches, and accept our backup offer.   

 -Said the wholesaler