All Forum Posts by: Tim Fitzgerald

Hi, Jon, I've got quite a bit of info on marketing for notes that I can email to you if you let me know where to send it.

Tim

[Looking over a pro's shoulder] is the definitive way to go. I see where most people who are just starting out looking to get into notes are (to me, anyway) barking up the wrong tree. You'll be spinning your wheels by trying to go to banks. You need to be very, very well connected to go that route, and, even then, NPNs are a very questionable focus for a newbie with limited capital and no experience with notes at all.

And, I also wouldn't "JV" with anyone that I don't know well, either because that will require you to put up some of your own capital. Instead, I advocate "bird-dogging" or 'finding' individual note holders and then referring them to high-volume note buyers. Very safe when it's done correctly. That's the big key-- done CORRECTLY. You can absolutely run afoul of securities laws if NOT done correctly... that said, there are always funders out there looking for more business who are licensed themselves and regularly pay people for referrals whereby THE FUNDER orchestrates and controls the note transaction properly while the referral agent stays outside the transaction.

The big key for a new note person looking to break in should, I think, go this route by concentrating on the MARKETING end, seeking out and finding private note sellers. If you can find them, you can find a funder interested in those notes, earning fees that way, thereby amassing capital with which to eventually buy your own notes to hold or resell or parlay into other assets. All without risking a dime of your own money.

And the advice the other gentleman offered with respect to "SEO" and setting up a website-- you may well go ahead and do that, but good luck getting found easily and, also, trying to 'attract' "ma and pa" note sellers (which is most of what I chase) that way is tough because, in many cases (this is my experience and I've been at this 20 plus years) these note holders aren't very educated as to the type of asset they really own and have a limited or no understanding of their options (such as the ability to sell the note to generate cash). Therefore, they aren't looking for you and they are not the ones searching the internet for note buyers... so you need to be an educator (to make them aware of their options) as well as a marketer.

Learn how to market effectively and you can make pretty good money. I do know funders who are always looking for more business who will train you in the business if you can bring them business. I can probably help point you in the right direction if you are interested in starting out this way. It's a great way to learn the note business and earn at the same time. If you want to PM me, do so and I can maybe give you a little guidance.

I think the best "cant miss" way of finding notes online (the fastest way) is to purchase a qualified list of note holder leads. The big key is sourcing from a credible list vendor. I have my favorite sources. If you want more info or my 'takes' on these, you can PM me and I can maybe make a suggestion and/or point you in what i think may be the right direction, at least from my own point of view and experience. 

If you're the type of person who would go to an outfit like, for example FCI Exchange, I personally would prefer going to a purchased list of note holders with names, addresses, LTVs, broken down by position (1st, 2nd, etc and I myself prefer firsts all day long) and property type... some of them will be ready to sell sooner, some later and you won't have to go through a middleman.

Being a note investor, I think, gives me additional advantages in real property investing that I would not otherwise have developed, i.e. creative financing techniques and approaches, more innovative marketing approaches (note appraising, to name one but there are quite a few others), extensive experience with negotiating and finding workable solutions for sellers and getting more offers accepted, etc have really increased my ability to find and negotiate very favorable hard real estate deals.

In short, note investing has helped me immensely in my real estate acquisition efforts (I did things in "reverse" order-- notes first which paved the way into my real estate.)

I got into notes for two reasons:

1. A way to generate cash from essentially nothing by finding and referring notes to other investors; and

2. For the ability to invest in the security of real estate without the inherent hassles of tenants and toilets .

With notes, I have no headaches associated with the physical property, but the security of an (oftentimes) appreciating asset.

But , for me, I find notes a whole lot more profitable than flipping property (if you’re a flipper, that is) as a means of generating cash.

Through the years, I became more and more proficient at marketing for notes and forged relationships with larger-scale note investors who are always looking for more deals. Money in my pocket every time I turn one over to them. Their thirst for more, I’ve found, is unquenchable and I’ve trained a lot of people to act as "finders" for them. Since they don't have their own marketing departments, they're very receptive to the additional business.

I love this business. Probably will never retire.

You're right @Chris Seveney -- some of these aspiring beginners really have no idea that marketing is a numbers game. And, I think by and large you need to reach a person an average of at least 7 times before they begin to recognize you.... by following up again and again (provided your recipient is, in fact, a warm lead), you will get them to think of you when it comes time to sell or liquidate the asset.

I think the numbers of people who try to start up a note business and end up leaving it before they become successful are reflective of all small business IN GENERAL-- that is, the people who quit or fail tend to be the ones who are not willing to put in the work, trial and error, etc. I get an awful lot of calls from people who say they are interested in getting involved in the note business, but then in the same breath they ask me "How quickly can I make money?", i.e. this guy or that guy is not interested in starting unless I can essentially assure them that they can make X thousand dollars in the first 30 days.... Although I have seen that happen, you need to think more "long term' in this business or in any business... and marketing (sourcing) is the big key. It's the same as marketing any product of service-- if you are just starting out, nobody's heard of you yet. Repetition is the key as is exposure in the right places and targeting the right audience.

And, if you have no business acumen at all, you will fail.

I do think running a note business is a fantastic way to generate income from ground zero, especially if you REFER (or broker or whatever you want to call it) notes to institutional investors without putting up any of your own money and learn by watching what they do while you earn money at the same time. No risk. It's actually very beautiful.

But, it's like running any kind of small business-- you need to put in the work. Marketing, accounting, researching, maintaining a website if you have one, etc.-- a small business owner needs to wear many different hats (sure, you can farm some of this stuff out, but you get what I'm saying) and I think you need to ENJOY doing those things, as I do.

I love my job and I've learned more on this "job" than I've learned working anywhere else.

I highly recommend that 'newbie" note people start this part time, which will reduce or eliminate financial pressure while you go though you startup phase.

The "success rate", or speed of development is entirely dependent on your own effort and discipline...if you don't enjoy what you're doing, you won't succeed.

I cringe when I get calls from people who think that all they have to do is place one ad somewhere or send out a few marketing messages in order to make a financial killing overnight. Those people will never succeed in any business and they should just stick with working for someone else.

@Gordon F. I would say, not only are you wrong about that, you're WAY off base. Why would you call mortgage lenders for notes?! That's not where you look... of course,you're going to come up with a big zero that way, but, I love it that so many people THINK that contacting banks is the way to go when looking for notes. Let them stab at windmills while i'm finding actual business. You don't call lenders; you MAIL to known note holder lists and also (most importantly) you market to attorneys, accountants, financial planners and real estate people who, over time, become note referral sources for you. There's plenty of business to be had. Another thing-- marketing is actually a LEVEL playing field-- you can play with the big boys here if you have the right list(s) of know how to market. Why do insurance companies (i.e., Allstate, State Farm) employ agencies? Because the home offices can't possibly find all teh leads there are to find, so they take referrals and pay their agents for them. Note brokering is really no different. If I get there first, i earn the $$. Also, @Scott Kimberly you don't want to target only other investors who are wholesaling themselves, you want INDIVIDUAL note holders especially and you do that through the ways I just mentioned above. I've compiled quite a bit of material about note sourcing, especially if you are just starting out.Just PM me if you want and i can shoot some of this your way.

Quite simply, reading, researching,etc without actually having DONE it (note purchase) yet is not enough. In my view, MARKETING for notes is the skill you need to spend nearly 100% of your time on, especially in the beginning. If you have SOME king of modest marketing budget to start with, a purchased list of known note holders can be a great start... ypu just craft the right message (again, trial end error will bearout which message(s) work best for you) and mail to your list. If you are set up properly with a national note buyer to REFER your qualified leads to, they will do the rest (due diligence) and yopu will learn by osmosis. They will pay you a cut (or referral fee) on the transnaction(s) that close. It's that simple and a great way to learn. Over the years, i've built up my own 'network" of note investors who are always looking for leads, and also I have good solid sources of note holder lists whare I mail to.  If you want, PM me and I can steer you in a good direction.

My simple answer to this is: broker (or refer) notes to national note buyers until you have turned over several dozen transactions while learning and obseving how THEY priced them.

You make money on the ones that close, all the4 while gaining experience on those as well as those that don't close for whatever reason (s).

There is no risk on your part-- none-- with this approach. With the buyer willoinmg to pay you referral fees, you gain valuable insights as to what sort of "cushion"(s) are working, price-wise, for offers tht end up being accepted.

Not to mention the valuable experience you get by watching the pros do due diligence. Why try to learn it all yourself while risking ypiur own money? It's just not necessary.

This is a way to make money WHILE yoiu gain experience.

If yopu want some of my insights on this you can check out my profile and video if you want... I work with a "network" (my own contacts gained through everyday business) of note invedstors whobuy notes in every state who willeagerly accept referrals from new brokers/referral agents and i can help steer anybody who's interested in the right direction.

Just give me a holler.

(I think it's silly trying to learn everything at once while trying to buy a note for yourself without knowing what you're doing. That's just not necessary when there is a whole lineup of investors who will gladly accept your referralsand teach you the business at the same time. Why not be smart?)