All Forum Posts by: Tim Fitzgerald

@Jay Hinrichs I just did Google it. Beautiful country out there. I have been there, but only once and that was way back when I was about 13 years old. If only CA weren't on fire so often. It's such a beautiful state.

WOW, that is far out! Outrageous-- I'd love to check it out! Too coincidental that I would even have mentioned him. And, yes-- you're right-- he was most definitely an early adopter

@Jay Hinrichs Or a picture of someone relaxing on a beach.

Remember a guru named Dave Del Dotto, by any chance? He had some kind of a RE mentoring course and he had John Davidson singing a song "I'm giving you a rainbow..." which absolutely evoked the "Pie in the sky" pitch.

Back then, seems to me, RE gurus, generally speaking, were much more blatant about making over-the-top outlandish claims that no sane person should believe in their right mind, but nevertheless a great many people would buy into those anyway I think, in large part because the economy was booming at that time and people who hated their jobs were much more willing to drop a few hundred or even thousands for a lick and a promise and then whatever they bought (even though it wouldn't work anyway if they did work it) ended up sitting on their shelf.

@Jay Hinrichs You're right- and the pitch seems to always begin with "I'm just like you" or [I'm just a regular guy] and [I've-been-where-you-are-andhere's-how-I did-it-and-now_I'm-going-to- REVEAL (that word "reveal" is always in there somewhere)-to-you-the-SECRET (this word is almost always in there as well-- and, if it WAS a "secret", it stopped being one the moment he mentioned it!

As an aside, I do WISH I could make a killing financially with little work. Sounds great to me!

 No doubt. This is, I believe, why most people looking to start a business of any kind fail. Many of them are looking for 'easy" or they just do not have the drive or wherewithal necessary to make it happen. They want "easy". They do not want "hard". When they find out that they have to do real work in order to make it happen, or they get no calls after placing one ad, they get discouraged and quit. (When, in reality, they have just begun the process). In my view, a great many people quit prematurely and end up leaving a lot of money on the table. But those people will never get it anyway and do not tend to be real achievers.

@Jay Hinrichs 

Thanks, Jay
To me, "guru" is kind of a "blanket' term that tends to evoke an image of [almighty seer/knower/knowledge imparter] which is thrown around in the real estate business a lot because there are and have always been many "find and flip" course salesmen everywhere you look. Those you would be wise to avoid. On the other hand, there is solid, legitimate instruction to be had for almost anything if you know where to look.

As far as Eddie, I do like him and have attended a couple of his live classes. He's got some really good instruction going on there with respect to the non-performing sector and the opportunities involved along with the numbers and the research-- however, the initial classes seem to me to fall short and you'll need to shell out for their training for somewhere around what a new car would cost you to advance [to the next level]. Joining up will also grant you the 'privilege' of being able to buy non-performing notes directly from their own investing arm- after they teach you how to do it.

I did not attend Note Expo-- I did read one person's comment that it was more [organizational] in nature than instructional but I would like to hear from anyone who actually attended it to get their opinion.

P.S. This is kind of a tangent, but regarding institutional investors that are looking for referrals from finders-- if you attend PaperSource or Noteworthy you will find those types of investors there who are looking for your business.

@Jay Hinrichs Do MANY people 'spend a bunch of time and effort and make zero"? Sure. Because they re not going about it the right way ans/or are looking in all the wrong places. How do you find the notes that you actually buy with your own funds? Are you not expending some time and effort into locating those? It's NOT effortless, as I am sure you'll attest to. And when you find a good note, you buy it, right? And, if YOU will buy it (assuming it's a good note with favorable parameters), it might be reasonable to assume that other people might buy it also. That includes institutional investors.

Learning by earning finders fees  certainly does not take any more time or effort than buying them yourself.  You are NOT buying the note yourself so you are taking zero risk. If the investor you take it to will not buy it, you lose nothing but gain valuable experience by learning what NOT to chase.

Jay, you are speaking of Russ Dalbey. IMHO he gave our business a bad name. He had banks of high-pressure salesmen (not necessarily real investors or experienced real estate people) and their MO was 1) tell you [how easy it is to make a killing $ overnight with almost zero effort--i.e. placing one ad in the paper], 2) get you to purchase an "introductory" course for a scant amount, i.e. something like $29 and then sic their telemarketers on you to separate you from your money-- to the tune of $thousands of dollars. He was selling dreams-- not real instruction.

Actually, during that span of time (from the 1990s until around 2003 or so) I mentored quite a number of people who went through Dalbey's "boot camp" program or whatever he called it, and then came to me later because they still believed in the business itself but realized they had been taken to the cleaners for a pipe dream and were now ready to learn CORRECTLY.

The note business is like any other business-- you need to work it and your marketing becomes much more effective after a # of months because prospects need to see your communications, on average, at least 7 + times before they will take an action. Lazy people who want something for nothing and who are not willing to put in the effort will fail at this or at any business.

As for the "massive amounts of Craigslist ads" you alluded to, I seldom if ever have looked at those but I do not doubt that's what went on because Dalbey would tell you that all you had to do was put one ad in the paper and you would make massive amounts of money because people would be responding in droves and lining up to sell you their notes. What a joke. Why do you think we ended up with "daisy chains" of junk notes that were circulating around the internet with (as you also alluded to) wannebee brokers trying to pass themselves off as buyers. The investors I dealt with were weary of all of those [junk] quote requests that were essentially flooding in-- they would see the same ones over and over.

Now that the "gurus" are no more, it seems to me that the note business in general (to those who are exposed to it) no longer evokes an image of slick-talking "snake oil" salesmen and that's so refreshing to me because I'm a long-term note guy.

Of course there are AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN many true note buyers "who won't touch notes on dirt" as you stated. In fact, they never did.

Regarding FCI, I have never gone there or even registered. I'm pretty sure that there are wanabee brokers registered there looking to pose as buyers, but since proof of funds is required there to do business, I would imagine they would have a fairly tough time.

As an aside, I get the sense that, when you mention "your little finder's fee" (BTW it's not "little" when you consider the relatively small amount of work needed to earn one), your overall tone is one of negativity. Why? Would you suggest a new note person put up their own money (and taking on risk) and learn by the seat of their pants?

And/or are you somehow questioning the legitimacy of the finder's fee? Take a look at Tracy's post today. She's been in the business a looong time, too and she outlines some really good examples of this very thing.

As Tracy mentions, MARKETING is the big key.... as long as you can find saleable notes, you can get them funded (sold) by simply referring them to an institutional investor AND if you are just starting out, this will serve as a means for you to generate cash while you are learning that ultimately can be used towards investing in your first note for your own account down the line after you've been exposed to a few deals and watch the professionals handle the transactions. It's like anything else-- you become an expert through repetition and experience AND you are not risking any of your own $ by "learning and earning" this way.

What is not really being said very much on these forums is that, especially when you are first starting out, MARKETING is going to be your #1 task (you can do this on a relatively low budget, too). You can't control the types of potential deals that flow across your desk as a result, but some that do not fit my own parameters (personally, I'm looking for the "gold nuggets" and I have my own criteria for that, i.e., lots of equity/safety) I end up referring-- and, generally speaking, institutional buyers' parameters are typically not as stringent as my own as they are buying in volume.

You do NOT need to know a lot about notes as long as you can FIND them. As long as you let the professional buyer take over while you learn and earn, you're getting a million dollar education and making money at the same time.

I am of the opinion that putting up ANY of YOUR OWN money to fund a JV as a means of "learning and earning" is a mistake if you don't know what you're doing yet.

That said, "learning and earning" is great. Just not that way. Instead, I would strongly recommend acting as a "bird dog" or finder and then referring the notes you find to an institutional investor for a fee. Depending on the purchase price of the note, referral fees can range anywhere from $2,000 to $10,000 and you are using other people's money because the investor is putting up all of it and taking all of the risk. This way, you are earning $ but, more importantly, not risking anything AND at the same time you are learning what's good, what’s bad (what the professional buyers like or don't like and why) as well as the entire due diligence/backend process so that after you do a few of these transactions, you will be MUCH better prepared to invest in notes for your own account.

I've been working with new note investors for 20 + years, matching them up with the right funder depending upon the types of transactions they want to refer. Funders are always looking for deals. Also, I fully agree in that you need a "guide" especially in the beginning if you've never done this before.

If you want to know more about this and need help, just PM me and if you look at my profile, you'll get a better idea as to my philosophy/ methodology.