All Forum Posts by: Tim Crosby

 Oh no, I won't be putting up with any of that mess. Lol. I've got their quotes here in writing. The first guy broke everything down in a very detailed scope of work. This second company just gave me a copy of the proposal. I will definitely get clarification before making a final decision though!!

Hey BP!

So, I'm currently talking to a few painters about taking care of one of the units at my duplex in Winter Haven, FL. Some people I've reached out to have simply provided me with a price per sqft, but 2 of them have asked to come to the house to see it in person. Naturally, I invited them over and the quoted me.

The first guy seemed really knowledgeable and had a portfolio of work to backup his talk. I was impressed with his understanding and professionalism, but there was one issue - the price.. for this 650sqft unit, he was asking $2,400 to paint the walls, ceiling, trim and doors of the intetrior!

The second painter seemed to be working for a much smaller outfit. If I had to guess, C&L (the name of their company) stood for Craig & Lindsey (the names of the people quoting me). Still, they were very professional and understanding about what I was looking for, but for the same job they were only asking for $800.

Now, to me, this looks like a pretty simple choice. I currently rent the other side for $750 a month. It'spossible I could get $800 with a fresh paint job, but even then, spending 3 months worth of rent for paint !? Why not just pay the $800 and then, even if I can't up the rent, at least I'm not out another $1,600. Right?

Let me know what you guys think. Is there really a big difference in an $800 paint job vs a $2,400 paint job? I understand you get what you pay for, but this seems like I might be paying for a bit too much with the first guy. Some of my friends say it's worth it, others think the opposite, but none of them have any experience, so I leave it to you.. what should I do? What would YOU do?

If you want to know more about this estimate, he did provide me scope of work, but it seems like pretty standard stuff. Feel free to ask for more details, I'm here on BP every day now!

Investment Info:

Small multi-family (2-4 units) buy & hold investment.

Purchase price: $144,500
Cash invested: $1,500

This was the first investment property I bought and so we were able to take advantage of FHA and Down Payment assistance provided for first time home buyers. We paid a little more for the home than I wanted to pay, but the home had a brand new roof and HVAC system at the time of purchase. Most importantly, even though we paid more than I wanted, we didn't over pay!

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

I wanted to house-hack, so that's what we did. My wife and I moved out of a 3/2 1200sqft mobile home and into a 2/1 650sqft duplex and it was probably the best decision we made at that time!

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

We started looking at other property and one of the homes was a bank owned home, we were a little impatient, so we ended up calling two realtors to the same house. The first agent was okay, but wasn't really motivated, the other was quick to respond and extremely eager to work with us, so we went with her. We passed on that house, but she showed us several properties from then on via the MLS.

How did you finance this deal?

I got an FHA loan and because it was our first home, we were able to use a down-payment assistance program. The only thing we really had to pay for was the due diligence - home inspection, survey and appraisal.

How did you add value to the deal?

We really didn't. Lol. When we move out, we plan to update the cabinets and paint. That should help out, at least a little!

What was the outcome?

I bought the duplex and still own it today.

Lessons learned? Challenges?

Look longer, be more patient and find something great, not just good. Also, consider rehab jobs. It's scary at first, but the upside is much greater and BRRRR let's you go on indefinitely, so do that!

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

Yes. April was an excellent help! I don't think she's on here, but I would definitely recommend her to anyone who asks!

In my opinion, Orlando is very hot right now. I don't know enough to say that things are over-priced in Orlando right now, but prices are high. The good news is, they're building A LOT! Warehouses, apartments - a lot of stuff. So it's definitely not a dying town. That said, a lot of people who look for vacation homes on a budget look closer to Lakeland. It's the perfect mid-point between the beaches of Tampa/St.Pete/Clearwater area and the amusement parks of Orlando. Then again, if you're looking to rent out places to people on vacation, it'd probably be a lot easier in Orlando, or on the beach.

@Natasha Dillon, don't know top much specifically about Mt. Dora. I'm in Tavares about twice a week for work, but I don't t look there for investment property. From what I've noticed it seems to be decently middle class. Tavares specifically is big on sailboats and the lake life! Closer to Apopka is a little more run down, more vagrants, but not too bad. Tallahassee is definitely out of range for me! Lol.

@David Paez, I agree with @Scott Morongell. Orlando is really hot right now. Lots of new development. There's a new Amazon being built near me, by the Lakeland / Winter Haven area. Tampa is always good too. We should get connected if you're planning on coming down here. I'm trying to do some BRRRRing here myself!

@Steven Clark I'm going to disagree slightly with the other response here. I think it can be helpful to keep tabs on your tenants. I'm not saying you should spy on them, but people are often times far too open on Facebook, so if there are marital troubles or job problems, you can likely see that coming before they mention it to you. I would avoid interacting with them, and you probably want to block some of your own personal content from them, but so long as you can keep your relationship strictly business, I think it probably helps more than it hurts. Like they say though, you're not friends and at the end of the day, this is all just business.

@Justin Pan, yeah that's what I'm assuming. It's the cost of business though. At the end of the day, if the HML is making a bit of profit and I'm able to close a deal that makes me a little money too, I'm happy with that. I'm not too concerned about quick money - that's for flippers - I'm much more interested in the long term cashflow of a buy and hold rental!

@Shere Hansell this was VERY helpful. I've already been looking at 75% LTV for my more conventional loans, so that's good. 13% + 3pts is another good bit of information. 6 months seems a little quick only because some banks that refinance might want 1yr of seasoned rent.. in those cases, assuming that's not factored into the agreement, how do those extensions work? Is there a fee associated with that, or is it just a simple extension?

You also mentioned there were several questions I should ask lenders. I may actually be meeting someone I met here on BP pretty soon. Beyond LTV, payment plans and percentages, is there anything else I need to look out for or ask about when talking to them?

Hey @Shere Hansell! Thanks for the quick response. Do you guys operate outside of IN? I'm most comfortable around Central Florida. Basically everything from Orlando to Lakeland, Tampa and all the little places in between. $100k is definitely not where I'm at as far as rehabs go! Maybe one day, but right now I'm looking more around the $20-30k rehab deal. I've seen those larger deals, but like you mentioned, those require a bit more experience!

What I'm really interested to know are the terms and such. For example, what sort of return are HMLs looking for? What are the terms of the loan? Do they want repayment on installments or one lump sum at the end?

Knowing these sorts of things, even if it's just ballpark numbers, would go a long way in helping me identify which deals are maybes and which ones I can just weed out completely.