All Forum Posts by: Sorin T

Originally posted by Jeff And Cheray Warner:

Originally posted by Sorin T:

I don't think other countries are being "forced" to keep quiet. If you have evidence of that please do provide so.

So the people of Cuba are free to speak out against their govt.?

Jeff

C'mon Jeff, now you're being ridiculous. We're talking here about countries in Europe where a similar program is in place for a while. Name one of those that's being forced to keep quiet. I didn't ask if you can find one country on the globe with a totalitarian regime, perhaps you have the questions confused.

P.S Cuba is one place on the planet where "cash for clunkers" would be an astounding success but I doubt you'll be seeing that soon over there.

P.P.S.If we compare ourselves with Cuba, no wonder we come so far ahead. Perhaps we should find more reasonable terms of comparison, other than 3rd world countries. That would be a true test. For the record, I do think this is the best place to be, but comparing ourselves with Cuba is not in our best interest...

Originally posted by Jeff And Cheray Warner:

Other countries are forced to keep quite while their govt. steals their money, we are not. I don't see the use in comparing the greatest country in the world to other countries.

Jeff

I don't think other countries are being "forced" to keep quiet. If you have evidence of that please do provide so.

And I do believe that being humble is a quality (modesty is the crown of kings) and that we, as great as we are, could and would have plenty beneficial things to learn from other places. I guess that's where the views differ.

In today's global world, when you sneeze on one continent and another one catches the flu, the self righteous borderline arrogance that previous admin has displayed plentiful is a depleted, outdated (and dangerous) trait. But that is another discussion.

Jeff, does everything around here has to be a partisan, "us vs them" issue? It's ridiculous. I just said I consider this to be beneficial, specially when compared to other amounts that pale by comparison, we spent on banks, and war. And that, regardless of who spent them, and I don't wait for the media, liberal or otherwise to tell me that money have pushed the banks out of the red, I still think it was moronic.
And yes, I too would like to see the benefits of this program quantified but I'm afraid it's too early for that after only a week, and when the real data will be available several months from now, it will probably be twisted to fit some partisan agenda, so I wouldn't put my faith on it. But my gut tells me that it's better than other programs we wasted 100X more money on. And no, I did not benefit from it, I'm only paying for it. Is that fair and balanced?

For the record, pumping obscene amounts of money into the greedy banks and into a senseless quagmire, that I consider a joke. But to each, his own.

Jeff, I'm not bashing the consumerism, I'm stating a fact. It would be hypocritical of me considering I've replaced all my tv/monitors from tube to lcd's and remodeling kitchen is on my list. It's a fact of life, but not common in many other places, yes?

And your 2nd paragraph, yes, we agree, the program is replacing old ones with newer ones. Where did I ever dispute that?

My comment was pointing just the tendency of replacing perfectly functional but outdated items with newer ones, the finest of consumerism, specific to not many countries beside this one. It's what got the economy going for many years. Ours and the Chinese.

I was not referring to tax subsidies, etc.

As far as this program being a joke, a lot of the same countries in Europe have had the same sense of humor way before here and for a lot longer than a few weeks. I remember seeing it when I visited there as far back as 2-3 yrs ago. The joke seems to be working OK for them otherwise they would've discontinued it.

Originally posted by MikeOH:

Speaking of effectiveness, I would like to know if destroying perfectly good clunkers actually does anything to improve the environment.
Mike

I think it's pretty much on par with trashing a perfectly functional (but outdated) kitchen/bath in order to install latest maple cabinets w/ granite countertops. Or trashing the old white appliances because they had rounded corners and replace them with en vogue stainless steel ones (or red).

It's the American way.

At least on a car one could argue the newer one is more efficient which is hardly the case with a new kitchen for example. Debatable on the appliances.

a benchmark to measure their effectiveness would be awesome. I'd like to see that applied to many areas (banks comes to mind first but others also) but I'm afraid the numbers would be twisted to show whatever the producer(s) of that report want them to show. No matter which direction the report comes from - right or left.

As far as the sheeple being lied to, that's a non partisan issue also, we're just so used to being lied to, it hardly matters anymore. With the risk of being slapped again, just look at the past 8 yrs, and the other 8 before that, and so on. It's part of the culture, being lied to, like watching a mountain dew or bud light commercial. Does anyone believe drinking mt dew makes you strong enough to butt heads with a buffalo or drinking bud light brings you 72 scantily dressed women? But it's so engrained in the culture, we accept it tacitly - and smile. Same with the politicians lying, misleading, deceiving. Realistically, does anyone expect them not to? And that's across the globe, not just here. It's just a matter of getting caught, and twisting the results, so ultimately interpretation...

OK enough venting, what rules did I break now?

Many countries in Europe have instituted a similar program a while back. It boosted auto sales, nobody denies that. And everything that comes along with it. But they can all be wrong, since they're socialists, and we stand tall and proud to be right.

Anywho, the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of such program can probably be measured in a matter of years, so the solution is to put off until then extending it? The one certainty for now is its success, exhausted its funds in just about a week or so. On a personal note, I think it's more effective than the ginormous amounts were pumped in the banks just to push them in the black, with no tangible results to the end user. At least this one has such a thing.

Well at least they didn't declare "mission accomplished" before pumping gazillions more in war funding... ;)