Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Seth Borman

Seth Borman has started 5 posts and replied 545 times.

Post: Fix or Tear Down and Rebuild

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314

There isn't such a thing as a "second SFR" it would at that point be a duplex so you could do two ADUs after the fact, which actually sounds like a solid idea to me.

Post: Denver eyes turning off natural gas, requiring all-electric new b

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314
Originally posted by @Colleen F.:

@Lam N.  In RI resistance electric heat is costing about 900/ winter month for a similar size house to your tenant.  That is about $800/month for 68-70,  just heat  and alot of that has to do with the cost of electric.   Will see if heat pump makes a difference. Gas isn't available but I would favor it if it was because it has historically cost me less.  The utility company was also  sold so I expect increases.   Similar size housing units in RI and MA, basic use without heat one unit electric cost is double the other. Opting in to renewables is an upcharge too! In short whether you think electric is good is influenced by  what you pay for it. 

As for NZero the environmental impact of additional manufacturing of housing materials needs to be figured into the net zero payback timeline. Also  the greenhouse/environmental impact of taking land for this "environmentally friendly" power is something that should be considered. What is the greenhouse impact of acres of solar panels. And would it survive unsubsidized? Maybe we should see if it does.   Maybe Denver gets sola  but less sunny places move in a different  direction for their clean energy.  does geothermal have any possibility?

Why are you focusing on resistance heat? No one is suggesting that to anyone. 

Post: Denver eyes turning off natural gas, requiring all-electric new b

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314
Originally posted by @Colleen F.:

@Seth Borman  I also need an explanation of 200% efficiency. not sure how you get more then 100% efficient. I would also say that if the compressor invertor technology is the similar to  what they used in my LG refrigerator that failed twice  we have a long way to go. 

They say you should have resistance electric for extreme temperatures. The average temperature doesn't matter it is the days below maximum capacity where the heat pump cant' handle the load for which you need resistance heat. 

I am with @Emilio Ramirez  the focus should be on updating existing housing stock and I would add vehicles and manufacturing to the mix. 

 See above. Some inverter heat pumps still have resistance heating. Most don't. You should have a backup, but you need one if you use a gas furnace as well because they require electricity as well. In fact, a furnace requires like 800 watts for the blower motor and a small mini split might use twice that to provide heating.

If you do use electric resistance heat you probably won't use much. A friend is heating houses in Cleveland with 2-3 tone heat pumps and they use about $200/yr of electric resistance heat. The total bill is generally about the same as gas, after the gas meter fee is considered.

Post: Denver eyes turning off natural gas, requiring all-electric new b

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314
Originally posted by @Bill F.:
Originally posted by @Seth Borman:
Originally posted by @Colleen F.:

@Seth Borman while I get your point and heat pumps are more efficient you need to consider that in places like MA, RI, CO, and other cold climates they are backed up by electric resistance when temperatures drop these are notoriously wasteful heat sources.  Heating season is 6 months a year in cold regions and the electric source is still not clean energy.  Also we have not looked at if heat pump install increases AC use (consuming more energy) although that is a wash in new construction which likely will include it. It is a fact that our overall energy consumption is up. Updating old housing currently using oil, more efficient vehicles, and manufacturing changes would do more then new net zero regs. Although a step in the right direction it is a feel good regulations.

The average low in Denver is 17°, which is super convenient because that is one of the temperatures that heat pumps are tested at.

At that temperature, an air source cold climate heat pump is taking one unit of electricity and converting it to two units of heat.

Your typical gas furnace is 80% efficient. A heat pump is 200% efficient. If the gas is being burned in a 60% efficient turbine, transported with a 10% loss and used at 200% efficiency then you're using less gas with a heat pump than you would by just using gas, and that's on the coldest day of the year. When the temperature is higher the heat pump will be twice as efficient.

Keep in mind that many inverter heat pumps don't have resistance heat, although some will have a crank case heater that uses a lot of power.

Seth can you explain your point about the heat pump efficiency a bit more or provide some sources for the 200% efficiency? Maybe I'm reading what you wrote incorrectly, but I don't think anything can be 200% efficient due to the Laws of Conservation of Energy. 

Heat pumps don't generally "make" heat, they just move it. Just like how your refrigerator doesn't cool anything, it just rejects heat back into your house.

In practice, that means a heat pump uses 1/2 or 1/4 the energy that resistance heating will use. Which makes % of efficiency the easiest way to communicate the efficiency of heat pumps compared to gas. Comparing HSPF to AFUE doesn't make any sense.

Post: Denver eyes turning off natural gas, requiring all-electric new b

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314
Originally posted by @Colleen F.:

@Seth Borman while I get your point and heat pumps are more efficient you need to consider that in places like MA, RI, CO, and other cold climates they are backed up by electric resistance when temperatures drop these are notoriously wasteful heat sources.  Heating season is 6 months a year in cold regions and the electric source is still not clean energy.  Also we have not looked at if heat pump install increases AC use (consuming more energy) although that is a wash in new construction which likely will include it. It is a fact that our overall energy consumption is up. Updating old housing currently using oil, more efficient vehicles, and manufacturing changes would do more then new net zero regs. Although a step in the right direction it is a feel good regulations.

The average low in Denver is 17°, which is super convenient because that is one of the temperatures that heat pumps are tested at.

At that temperature, an air source cold climate heat pump is taking one unit of electricity and converting it to two units of heat.

Your typical gas furnace is 80% efficient. A heat pump is 200% efficient. If the gas is being burned in a 60% efficient turbine, transported with a 10% loss and used at 200% efficiency then you're using less gas with a heat pump than you would by just using gas, and that's on the coldest day of the year. When the temperature is higher the heat pump will be twice as efficient.

Keep in mind that many inverter heat pumps don't have resistance heat, although some will have a crank case heater that uses a lot of power.

Post: Denver eyes turning off natural gas, requiring all-electric new b

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314
Originally posted by @Matthew Irish-Jones:

@Tariq Hakeem this will hurt development.

 I don't see how. It removes a utility that otherwise would have to be included in new development.

I've even run into this on a flip. Getting the gas repiped is a huge waste of money. More so for a whole new building. And it isn't cheap, either.

Post: Denver eyes turning off natural gas, requiring all-electric new b

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314
Originally posted by @Colleen F.:

Raise your hand if you are saying yeah net zero and driving one of those gas guzzling trucks or SUVs because you need it?  While this is an interesting idea much like Newsome banning gas vehicles,  banning gas use is focusing on the wrong point. Its a feel good strategy. Just because you go electric not gas doesn't mean the ultimate source of the energy is clean. Net zero build does however move in the right direction.   

 It's a lot more efficient to use electricity for heating space and water than to use gas directly. For space heating, an inverter heat pump is more efficient than a gas furnace until the temperature falls below 20° or so. That's most of the year.

Heat pump water heaters are much more efficient. Gas units are often only 60% efficient, while heat pumps are more like 400%. When you discount that for generations and transmission losses, the heat pump is still more efficient.

In fact, someone (Redwood Energy) did the math and they claim that a HPWH is cleaner in all senses than a gas water heater, even if your power mostly comes from coal.

Post: Denver eyes turning off natural gas, requiring all-electric new b

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314

I think the net zero thing is taking this conversation in a weird direction. There is no need for rooftop solar to make electrification work, and work well. The issues are all around making cold climate heat pumps work (which means a well sealed and insulated house) and not putting solar on the roof.

A well built house that meets the Zero Energy Ready Homes standard costs like 4% more than a code built house (which is not insignificant) but also costs less to operate than a code built gas house.

Unfortunately that 4% doesn't pay for itself in ways that mortgage lenders recognize. We still don't have proper ways of measuring home energy consumption for the mass market.

Post: Evaluating Mini split HVAC Heat Pump Options - Cooling and Heat

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314

Yes, a heat pump will work in your climate.

Post: HVAC in the crawl space or in the attic

Seth BormanPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 553
  • Votes 314

Attic is better, but inside the conditioned space is best. Lots of people use spray foam to seal the attic and then put the HVAC there.