Originally posted by J Scott:
Originally posted by Randy F.:
Then theres the little thing we call the Constitution! Although an actual conflict might bring about some killing with guns, the highest purpose of a "well armed militia" is it's effect as a deterent to a government intent on pissing on said Constitution.
First, if you're going to use the Constitution to support your argument, it's important that you don't misquote it and try to change its intent.
The Constitution doesn't say anything about a "well armed militia." It does say something about a "well regulated militia," which if anything, supports my argument more than yours.
Cant believe I did that! My bad! And I would accept a severe tongue lashing for the oversight. What I dont accept is your accusation that I attempt to change its intent. I have no reason whatsoever to change its intent. The writings of the Founders and of legal scholars and the courts of the time, make perfectly clear the intent of the 2nd Amendment as an individual right.
My understanding of the intent of the 2nd Amendment is supported by writings such as that by Justice Joseph Story, appointed to the Supreme Courts by James Madison in 1811. In 1833, Justice Story wrote the following:
"The next amendment is: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers;and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
(emphasis mine)
I am not a member of an organized "well regulated militia". If interested in the original intent of the 2nd Amendment, it is clear that the right to keep and bear arms, while being an individual right, has a collective purpose. The following appeared in the Pennsylvania Gazette in 1788 while the states were considering ratification of the Constitution. It was writtne by Tench Coxe, a delegate for Pennsylvania to the Continental Congress.
"Who are the militia? are they not ourselves. Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American...The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
I am also not an NRA member. I probably should be, as I appreciate all they have done in fighting the anti-gun movement. However, I also recognize how even a great cause can be taken over by big money.
Im not sure where you stand as some of your comments are contadictory. I recognize the goverments right to regulate the industry, the arms we can "keep", and the manner in which we "bear" them. I am not patently against gun regulation, I am simply resistant to them based on the slippery slope their regulation could put us on.. You point to the British as an example of how gun regulation has brought reduced gun violence, while I point at their history as an example of a slippery slope that i dont want to see happen in this country.