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All Forum Posts by: Kevin S.

Kevin S. has started 22 posts and replied 381 times.

@FR W.

I have only been defending newbies while admitting their faults at the same time but keep getting insults.  For the life of me I don't understand how some seasoned pros think it's ok to do that.  Even more baffling is watching other pros joining in on that.  Last one being Jim K. who took it another level!  Newbies are largely wrong, I get that, but for a reason.  What reason do seasoned pros has to not just be understanding of that?  

Only a couple dared to chime in and break away from the 'club' which I largely appreciate. 

@Bradley Buxton

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.  Not everyone think like you as you can very well see on this thread. 

I like Plaks' contributions to this forum.  Brandt is the one I respect.  You have posted good comments and I read yours.  I read Dan's comments too.  There are few others (actually not too many) I like reading, their names I cannot recall at this very moment.  Informative, sometime humorous (makes it fun), non judgmental.  Thanks to all these (few :)) guys.

@Jonathan Greene

You don't have to wait.  I am already successful in what I do.  In my world you would be lucky if you could be successful in 60 yrs.  In my world we don't insult or have name calling.  I wish you another successful 30 yrs in what you do.  

@Dan H.

Thank you, Dan.  The wise one has risen and the wise one has spoken.   

@FR W.

Jonathan expects others to read his long post but responding yours' with 'TLDR'.  

Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Good post @Jonathan Greene!

My 2 gripes are: 

No simple thank you for advice that is insanely valuable

Everyone wants shortcuts and easy nowadays.....How many times do we hear - "Is there an App for ________?"

I think sometimes the newbies do not see the value of the information or offer of help.

there was a thread on starting on storage units by @henry Clark.  It had so much detail based on years of lessons learned.  The person the thread was primarily dedicated to simply was not following the advice accurately enough or being too lazy.  IMO the info that Henry presented in the thread could have formed the basis of a guru course worth thousands of dollars.  

just as the person it was directed to would not do what was requested, he also appeared to not fully value the great guidance offered.  

I recently was finishing a rehab that in terms of budget was my worst ever (not ideal at my experience level but shows even those with experience have learning opportunities) but was still feeling generous to a local newbie.  I told him what day I expected to finish the rehab and to contact me at that time and I would treat him to a burrito and beer to discuss local RE.  Note I have 8 digits of local RE and my net worth increases over 7 digits per year for at least the last handful of years.  If I judge my hourly on net worth, my hourly value is in excess of $500/hour.  He never contacted me.  When I was starting out I would have loved to have someone like me treat me to a lunch to discuss RE.  I would have placed the date on the calendar and on that date I would have inquired if the offer was still available and whatever date the experienced person had, I would have made sure I was available.  

I do not make such offers often and am surprised when someone does not make use of the offer.  At worst case, they would have gotten a free meal and beer for some time and if what we discussed had no value to them, they could ignore it.  Best case is they get a free meal and walk away with a lot of valuable information.  

some newbies will never not be newbies.  


 That is bad.  Some newbie make the rest look bad.  Please don't put every newbie in one basket.  I hope you can look past the bad ones.  Appreciate your contribution.

Quote from @FR W.:

I'm not sure why you posted F R A G I L E, but "do you" whatever it means. 

"You" took offense to what I said clearly since you came back and began your post with F R A G I L E.  I could have started this reply with C H I L D I S H but I didn't.  So, moving on. 

Those of you who have put yourselves on this pedestal because you spend so much time here posting and leaving clapback comments (that was your word, right?), that you've racked up so many votes from those who may not necessarily agree with what you've said, but are too afraid to challenge or add a different view of what you said, are most often the problem.  Your response to my take on your post is a perfect example.  I wasn't negating your post, I was only offering a different view... one that too many face and feel, yet one that not many will speak up on, again, because there are those with "bully" syndrome and this superiority complex who shut them down every time they ask a question. 

You're right, what some call business, I might find rude, because I don't think that there is EVER A TIME OR PLACE FOR RUDE. But there's always, always, always, time to HELP someone who needs it.

And those new investors asking for assistance, maybe they won't see your post with all that "helpful advice" as you call it, because you've posted it in one place - maybe they'll get on here and will be so overwhelmed at first, that they just won't know where to start;  maybe they won't know to jump on here and start searching; maybe they won't know that they have to come to the table with an offer of some kind of help TO GET HELP FIRST (by the way, if you're new and reading this, please know that everyone out there doesn't live in the land of, "If you want my help and advice, what will you do for me?" world - some people live genuinely in service to others and they want to help, without wanting anything in return); maybe the new investor won't know the right questions to ask or how much information they should have, or even HOW to formulate that information into a question worthy of "your" response.

So, I will repeat what I said initially, in case the folks in the back didn't see it the first time:  
Whether asking a question as a new investor or answering as a seasoned
investor, ALWAYS lead with kindness. Being offended or taken aback by
someone's rude response, is not a sign of "fragility," it says that you
are one who would never respond so rudely to someone's simple question.
Stepping into these waters is already an intimidating process. Please
be mindful of the way you respond to questions from those who are not as
seasoned as you might be. Your response just might be the final straw
in someone's attempt to change their life for the better by doing what
others have successfully done before. Lead with kindness. Don't hide
behind a rude response as a way of helping, because you're not. What
you're doing in that moment is ensuring that the person asking the
question won't ask another... and that's not what we want. We're here
to help... not hurt or hinder.

Your wait is over...


 FRW, whoever you are you need to take the mentorship position.  Honestly.  Couldn't have said it better.  Somehow I get this feeling your response will not be well taken by the original contributor.  Just a hunch... 

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

These are here to help you make better connections in the forums. It's ok to be new, but if you consider these five tips, you will get much better responses to your questions.

1. Writing too little or too much in a post looking for answers. There is a happy medium out there. If you write a novel, most of us won't read it because it's just too much. If you write too little, we have nothing to go on. Ask one question and tell everyone what you have done up to this point to get the answers. Also, give relevant information on rates, prices, square footage, etc.

2. Asking for a mentor without having anything to give. This is running rampant. It's great to get in the forums and look to make connections, but when you only put your hand out and ask for help and have nothing to give back, you are only going to get people who are going to pitch you. A few locals may reach out (more likely local agents), but you will never hear back if you hop on that call and only want to take from them.

3. Being fragile when you don't get the responses you want. If someone doesn't give you the answer you want and you clap back, your time in the forums will be short. Not because you will get removed but because you aren't open to advice. Sometimes, you will ask one question, but pros will have other questions to see if you are even asking the right question. Open forums aren't the best option if you are prone to fragility.

4. Asking questions without researching how often the same question has been asked. See "Should I start an LLC?" as an example. If you want to get the best responses, don't ask a question that has been asked a million times. Do your due diligence in the forums, looking for other answers, and use those to frame a better question.

5. Posting the same question in multiple forums. This is a definite no-no. Please stop. Pick one forum where your question makes the most sense. If it's a good question, we will find it. If you post the same question in several forums, we all know it's spam. You know it's spam. Don't spam.

If you are an experienced commenter here, let everyone know what you think of these to help them even more. Add some of your own.

If you are new, please use these to help yourself get better answers here.


 maybe people do not know but there's an Ai outthere that can summarize all the BP answer into one page. The prompt question is something like this "according to biggerpocket site, what is the best city for cash-flow in 2017 ?" ; make sure to use the "biggerpocket". So we no longer have to browse all the answers, been using it for a while now for almost everything. This thing already replaced google.


 Good tip.  Thanks.

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Kevin S.:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Kevin S.:

@David Dachtera

A well balanced response.  You took the time to dig deeper and come up with more plausible explanation than just shining 'more' negative light on newbies.  More respect to you.  

Newbies are newbies for a reason.  Yes, some will stay newbies and some will move up.  


I don't read anything negative in the original post aginst newbies. It's there to help people. There are good newbies who try and learn and a plethora of bad newbies who are just being time sucks and lazy. It's easy to find good newbies, but if they all can take the tips to help them get better answers, that was the point.


 I don't disagree with things you posted but you certainly grouped all newbies together for one.

"Asking for a mentor without having anything to give.  This is running rampant".  On a forum such as this where hundreds (?)of members are joining weekly or monthly, maybe thousands, a few dozens newbies asking for help on weekly basis may seem like it is running "rampant".  Or is it?

True, newbies sometimes don't realize what is expected of them and they have to be nudged or like one post mentioned some truly don't know how to navigate this forum yet.

You don't read anything negative?  Is there anything positive?  

The truly gracious seasoned members just ignore the newbies (uninformed post or whatever adjective you want to attach) giving them space and time to grow.  They don't complain instead choose to answer if and when they feel like they want to help. 

Then the truly, truly, truly gracious members neither complain nor expect anything in return for their help.  


You are the problem. How long have you been here? Some of us have been here for more than 10 years so we know what is still running rampant and what is not. You are proving the post in spades by your reaction. Is there anything positive? The post is to help newbies not step in the mud, which gets them no responses.

I also find it hilarious that you are intimating that I am not gracious. As if I should thank every newbie for gracing the forums. I don't work for BiggerPockets. I've been investing for more than 30 years and spend time in here to help people. Fragile people, like yourself, can only see the lens through their own self-worth.


 So that's it.  You are bigger and better than others.  And you are supposed to be a mentor?  I found a mentor here on BP and he certainly doesn't display such arrogance.  Your post is not about newbies.  It is all about you.  It's about how much better you are, how much longer you been here, your self worth is better than others.  You are so good you are able to help others.  

You clearly wrote in your post about getting something in return for helping.  Is that helping?  I am sure you did in the past and still do but your complaining an condescending tone about newbies is stark and glaring in your post.  You are using your good deed of past to justify your condescending post.  The fact that you find things "hilarious" is your arrogance on display.  Obviously the graciousness has hit a nerve.

Newbies are fragile, that I admit.  And you don't need to thank them for gracing this forum.  Just thank them for being a punching bag. Give you something to write about and feel good about yourself.  Using 'helping' as an excuse to write what you wrote doesn't hide what's (and who's) behind it.  I am sticking my neck out for newbies.  Then again, what do I know.  

I am the problem.  You been here longer.  You are the one helping people.  You get to decide what's hilarious, what 's not.  I am the fragile one.  And surely, my self worth is far below yours. More power to you.