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All Forum Posts by: Account Closed

Account Closed has started 17 posts and replied 170 times.

Post: House prices will never outpace inflation over time, its impossible.

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22
Originally posted by @Ron Thomas:

@ Everyone

This is fun.

On a somewhat serious note home price movement both in the short and long term is very important. The same would be said for both inflation and income hence how these variables intertwine is very important. 

Some of what you are trying to describe is captured in some ways by Fred's 'housing affordability index'

Along with some of the data, when some economist of the likes of Robert Shiller say things like this: "...real home prices are essentially trend-less and do not show any continuous uptrend or downtrend in the long-run.." it is somewhat difficult to say with certainty the claim put forth here. There are quite a bit a variables that complicates how house prices relate to income. 

California would be a good case to look at in regards to home prices there and income/affordability. The fact that there are intermittent bubbles doesn't necessarily imply that housing prices will never outpace income growth in the long run. If anything is clear (at least based on the data), it is that real income growth is usually 'painfully' slow. Businesses often have an incentive to suppress income growth and literally have a tendency to oppose wage increases vehemently.

( https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPHAI )

Post: How to increase ARV effectivley?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22
Originally posted by @Rob Randle:

I am looking at a property that is going to need some updating throughout.  Everything is functional but the bathrooms, kitchen, doors, closets are outdated.  I will be holding onto this property to rent.

What repairs / updates are necessary to increase the ARV?

For example, does replacing the doors or putting new carpet on increase the ARV?

I want to make sure that I am using my dollars effectively and that are going to have a positive impact on the homes ARV. I am looking to create value and not spend money on things that don't have a positive impact.

What sort of property? SFR, multi unit etc? If you are just renting the property, you want to also be looking at spending and how it affects cash flow.

Post: Buying And Selling Bulk REO'S

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22
Originally posted by @Willie Banks:

How would I go about Purchasing bulk REO's and turning around to sell to wholesalers & rehabbers

Your response on this will vary based on who you talk to. You also have not mentioned how much money or volume of properties you have in mind.

Post: negotiating with the bank

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22
Originally posted by @Brent Fleeman:

So here is the situation, I had a guy call me off of my truck signs he is currently paying 2 house payments and is wanting to get out from one. He is current on his payment but he owes around 53k. He also told me he would like to get around 5k equity out, I really would like to help him out, but by my figures this may be high on the price for myself or another investor to buy this from him. So my question is can he negotiate down what is owed even though he is current on payments?

If the seller is experiencing some form of 'extreme financial difficulty' that may adversely affect future payment, it would be in the interest of all involved. You just need to explain things to the bank. If the seller has the capability to perform though, the bank obviously wants as much as they can get.

Post: House prices will never outpace inflation over time, its impossible.

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22
Originally posted by @J Scott:

Let me guess... It wasn't an MBA. 

BTW, you seem to be trying awfully hard to "literally" prove nothing to me...   😉

lol... I am trying awfully hard not to dent your (or others) feelings. Egos are often fragile. I am literally cringing as I type. Trying awfully hard to restrain myself from going after theory #2. Don't make me do it!!

Post: Richmond, Virginia Real Estate Attorney Recommendation?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22

You may be able to find some of them through the local bar.

Post: House prices will never outpace inflation over time, its impossible.

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

I think we need a section for salsa for some who like dancing around issues.

Personally, I think we need a primer on economics and science for those who clearly weren't paying attention in high school.

Although I was fortunate to attain a graduate level education, I realize that there are many who did not. I literally have no need to prove anything to you. Try to contain some of the emotion.

Post: House prices will never outpace inflation over time, its impossible.

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Originally posted by @Ron Thomas:
Over the long run, think 100-200 years, the growth in cost of a given unit of housing cannot out pace the growth in a given consumer’s ability to afford said unit.

Exactly. 

lol...this just doesn't stop does it... we are now on theory #2. Went from housing price increase and inflation to housing price increase and income. We might need an accountant to start keeping track of these theories. This is becoming incredibly amusing.

Post: House prices will never outpace inflation over time, its impossible.

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22

Sorry I don't have time for flimsy petty talks. I have looked through this thread and see you go in all sorts of weird direction -- focus!

No amount of insult or name calling makes you correct. It was an incorrect statement and that is a fact. All you have and can do is try to dance around the issue.

I think we need a section for salsa for some who like dancing around issues.

Post: House prices will never outpace inflation over time, its impossible.

Account ClosedPosted
  • Jacksonville, FL
  • Posts 183
  • Votes 22

I try to separate the emotional ramblings and noise from facts. Before we get distracted, we are talking about this erroneous claim "House prices will never outpace inflation over time, its impossible"


People try to misapply and misinterpret economic theories all the time and in the process get both themselves and others misinformed. Some economic theories often fail to explain or contradict certain events in society. Within the field of economics, there are various schools of thought that don't often agree with each other on an array of issues.

What is simple is this...one thing about science is that if you make claim regarding any theory, you (and others) have to be able to prove and validate it. You are not able to prove that inflation has outpaced home prices. That has not been the case in the last several decades and that is an undisputed fact. You are also not able to make a legitimate claim that inflation will outpace home prices in the long term. I don't need to get into behavioral finance and economics here.

This is also something the you are not thinking about. The federal reserve exist as a matter of statutory mandate. In executing their very job description (which you should look into by the way), prices and inflation are things they exist to influence and control. So if the government of any country sees a pattern of problem with prices and inflation, what do you think will be the goal of its monetary policy? They will do what is necessary to correct any problem and most definitely with inflation. How effective they are is a completely different story.

Not only does the data not validate your claim, in some ways for what you say to be true, that means the federal reserve would have to deliberately (through its policies) try to ensure that inflation remains higher than house prices and that would actually effectively violate their very reason for existence or stated objectives.

Again this is very simple, if you have data which shows that inflation has outpaced home prices the last 10, 20, 30 or 40 years, lets see it. You don't. So you try to discredit the data that is being used by federal agencies, the methodology that the federal agencies are using, the time frame and everything else you can think of but fail to realize you have not provided anything to verify your claim which is essential.

What are other economist saying? I am not trying to make some corny argument for home ownership as I am more for investments that generally outpace inflation significantly, especially in the long term, but these are some experts in the field that seem to think based on what they've observed that over the long run, home prices outpaces inflation. What I find looking back 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago sort of matches what they see.

Andres Carbacho-Burgos, an economist at Moody's Analytics, said ...We expect house prices to settle into a price-growth trend that's slightly higher than inflation over the long term,” ( http://www.appraisalinstitute.org/HomeownershipPaysoffinLongRunNAR/)

Again..

"Lawrence Yun, chief economist at NAR, nominal home prices in the U.S. historically have risen 5.5 percent annually, outpacing inflation by anywhere from 1 percent to 2 percent." (http://www.appraisalinstitute.org/HomeownershipPaysoffinLongRunNAR/) .

This is also a publication from the Bank of International settlement. Scroll to page 14 where you can see the nominal and real price home price movement not just in the US but in 15 countries covering a span of 22 years. What is clear is that house prices outpace inflation in the long run not just in the US but in other developed economies around the world.

http://www.bis.org/publ/work20.pdf

 Your argument is moot.