All Forum Posts by: Jonathan Greene

@Bill F. yeah of course the price doesn't have to make sense, but the point of my value conversation was inside the original post and follow-up which is about how new investors can pay more, not because it's worth more, but on a set of factors that aren't real so the so-called supply and demand isn't real. There is more to value than the three things you mentioned, there are a lot of nuances since block values can fluctuate 20 percent because of one sale or one foreclosure. I appreciate the analysis, but you are commenting on a line inside a 100 post thread and missing the theme about what the value means in this context.

@Account Closed totally fair points and the Bro Investor does not affect me at all. I've had the same system for a very long time, it's just an overall commentary on the state of investment. No one, not even the naysayers, could say that not every single person they know wants to or thinks they can be a real estate investor now. People are capitalizing on that and selling false goods to these Bros and pumping them full of steroid-like deal flows to catch their ego working strong.

@Dan H. same for me. I still don't use any of those terms at all. I invest on knowledge and I do think the plethora of resources out there makes new investors, especially Bros, think they get it more than they do. I still contend that yessing young investors along and always telling them how smart they are and good they are doing will only allow them to go broke, especially when a market downturn is coming.

@Kyler Cook sick burn, brah.

@Christian Rojmar I agree with what I've been hearing, but "success" is not seen the same way I see it. Having twelve properties that cash flow and mortgages on each is not success to me. Having your own cash, as many lines of credit as you need, and no debt to me is success. The encouragement to get doors to have them is insane to me. A lot of the so-called success stories could crap the bed big time in a market downturn like 2008. Just ask the big guns who got killed then what will happen when you are door rich and cash poor.

@Sam B. great points. Just wait until we hit a RE recession. These forums will be filled with crying because they are so highly leveraged and completely screwed. Most of the young investors are honestly too young to understand just how that happened and how it can happen to them again, soon.

@Account Closed boom! A perfect representation of Bro Investor. Happens every day, but apparently it's mean (to some) to acknowledge it openly.

@Bill F. you lost me at book value. How does your comment relate to the original post? I read what you are saying, I just don't know how it's wrapped in here. The problem is that you don't address the fact that value can be corrupted. It is not static. Real estate agents, bad comps, lack of understanding of market dynamics, and terrible advice can create high perceived value and low future value. That's why Bro Investors often buy because their friends are, but none of them understand the science of real estate and deal-making.

@Zayne Ruth how are you finding your deals? If they are all on the MLS and you haven't done direct marketing or list-making, there are likely deals there, you just don't know about them. You can build a small list on ListSource that might help you target some properties with owners who maybe haven't thought about selling, but when someone tells them they want to buy, the light bulb goes off.

Weird flex but ok

For small multis, my best money in vs. rent out is on segmenting the areas for parking and backyard. I want to reduce the chance of tenant arguments so if there are two spaces or four spaces for parking I mark them for each unit when possible. When I have a backyard that is big enough, I fence half of it for each so that they each get some privacy and never bump into each other in the yard. Low costs, higher feeling of home, higher rent.

I agree 100 percent on allowing pets. You will get very good renters this way who are desperate because they have a big, but friendly dog. BUT I always suggest meeting the pet first. So many rentals don't take pets that those with two pets or big pets will overpay for a nice place.

I don't think of micro-flipping as speed wholesaling although that may be what most do. To me, micro-flipping is what I call lipstick flips. They are undervalued small houses or condos that don't need a lot of work, but too much work for a new person and not enough for a contractor to make what they want. These are ideal for AirBnb glow up renovations.

A lipstick flip is just one that needs minor cosmetic adjustments to get back on the market. When I started in real estate I usd to find a community with multiple units for sale in the same area. I would buy the lowest priced one, add new carpet and paint everwhere, maybe a couple small upgrades on cabinet handles or appliances and then put it back on the market and make 20k before the other units even sold.

@Julio Velazquez In NY and NJ if I am looking for investments to hold and rent or even for house hacking for someone else, the train lines are my guide. Even an imperfect neighborhood on a train line with direct access to the city will be good as a rental. Renters can get 2x the square footage or more for the same price they would pay in Bushwick now.

@Julio Velazquez yeah, definitely harder for you, but it might just take a few more towns over. Since you are bordered by water and then Williamsburg is close, you have stocked 'hoods everywhere. Maybe if you venture further out in Queens and beyond. For NYers I sometimes suggest watching the Metro North train routes out. Most areas have blown up, but on the way there may be a couple stops left that make sense.

@Zayne Ruth if he has solid contacts there and the numbers work it would definitely be an upgrade to just blind investing OOS, but I would still always stay closer to home for a first one, even if it takes longer to find. The main reason is so you can learn. Investing OOS as a newcomer doesn't help you learn anything in real life and most investors who do well over time don't just evaluate markets, they know how everything works in a house or multi and what to look for whether they are in UT or TX.

If you are looking for a more hands-on local approach to this, I think the easiest way to find the next up and coming market is to find the hottest market in your area first. Then, track each next neighborhood to the E, W, N and S. See if those numbers are growing year-over-year, in sales at the same pace. Drive the areas to see where there are more renovations happening. Then when you think you've identified the next hot market where renovations are going on, move to the next one. That is the one where you will find upward growth longer-term, especially if you factor in the sites everyone talked about above. But I think it's safer to see and touch the areas and know for yourself why it's coming up. If you find out a Starbucks or Whole Foods is going into an area that isn't up yet, that market is ripe.