#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted No decent professional would take on an expensive job, start and finish it, and then charge you five figures without a contract in place.
So, refusing to pay him might end up causing more headaches than it's worth. He knew exactly what he was doing!
I’d let him know that what he did was outrageous and demand an explanation for why he’d start a job without everything in writing. Make it clear that you’re prepared to go to court, potentially jeopardize his license, or report him to consumer protection services—or at least make it clear you’re considering these steps. See how he responds.
I’d definitely keep calm but assertive. Be proactive, and let him know you’re no pushover and won’t take this situation lightly.
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted I am currently looking at my first investment property. The property needs to be rehabbed. Initially we thought we would flip, but now we're thinking of holding and using the equity for future investments. What formula or criteria do you use to decide whether to flip or to hold? I'm interested in hearing different perspectives. Thank you.
The general rule I go by, after flipping a ton of houses, is that I regret selling them now.
If you buy them right (we're an exception, as we buy at 7 to 15 cents on the dollar) and rehab them properly, you'll get a ridiculous profit by keeping them, using strategies like the BRRRR method.
Honestly, it doesn’t make much sense to sell them right away if you bought them right. Holding onto them will more than likely increase their value over time, along with all the equity you built through the flip. Refinancing it with a renter inside will get you more money back than what you put in, and you can keep doing this over and over.
So, the verdict is: if you buy it right and rehab it right, the general rule should always be to keep it (for now).
That’s my personal opinion.
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted I am currently looking at my first investment property. The property needs to be rehabbed. Initially we thought we would flip, but now we're thinking of holding and using the equity for future investments. What formula or criteria do you use to decide whether to flip or to hold? I'm interested in hearing different perspectives. Thank you.
@shay The biggest question - can the property cashflow after paying for the costs of holding the property? If you cant turn a decent profit on a monthly basis, it's not a great long term play and you should sell the property.
@Shaylynn O'Learyundefined
It could still be a good investment. You also have to consider market development and future predictions. If there are significant developments planned in the area, such as big companies opening, new apartment complexes, hospitals, or malls, it could actually be a brilliant idea to buy properties, even if there’s currently no cash flow.
Just something to think about before dismissing it as a poor investment to hold onto.
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted I get involved in A LOT of side discussions (when a thread goes off the rails and away from the original post) on BiggerPockets. Whenever it happens, it happens because an investor either doesn't like the delivery of my message or doesn't like that I didn't give them an answer to a very vague question. I ask many questions back to help them, but they see this as an affront because it's not what they asked for.
The greatest coaches in the world will tell you to arrive prepared, do your research, and ask good questions to get the best answers. I can't imagine someone arguing with this (but I'm sure there will be someone). Just because you are new to investing, new to the site, or new to a meetup doesn't mean you shouldn't show up prepared. The more prepared you are, the better responses you will get. The less prepared you are, the more you will get pitched. You become a mark.
Constructive criticism is your friend. No one who has grown a business from small to big will tell you that they got there by surrounding themselves with only people who tell them what they want to hear and deliver it in a warm handbasket. Different deliveries, different opinions, different questions, different mindsets - this is how you learn.
In the real estate investing world (the real one, not the forums), many people who will be the nicest to you will sell you something shortly thereafter. When you only want someone to sell you a dream, everyone will sell you that dream. When someone criticizes your plan but has nothing to sell you, how could they not be acting in your best interests? Why would someone with years of experience hop onto an online forum just to mess with you? What would they have to gain from that? Think bigger.
Blind faith will get you nowhere in real estate investing. Everyone telling you that your plan is excellent will not help you. You want the people who find the cracks because that is how you get better. That is how you learn. Wherever you are in your investing journey, stop taking everything personally that doesn't fit what you want to hear. You will get places much quicker by having constructive dialogues with those who challenge you, not those who appease you.
What do you think?
MF's are too soft these days bro. You know who almost never succeeds in running their own business? Soft MF's.
While you’re projecting this tough, macho image, consider the advice and attitude you're giving to a young, aspiring college-student investor who genuinely needs guidance rather than someone inflating their own ego at their expense.
I wish I had started when I was that young. The point isn’t whether he should quit because the odds are tough or because the majority might fail—it's about guiding and supporting those who are eager to learn, not discouraging them.
Offering help isn’t a sign of weakness. I struggle to understand how grown men like you don’t see that; rather than coming across as “cool” or “tough,” this attitude makes you seem more like a beer-goggling college fraternity than a forum for learning and growth. Not surprising really judging by your avatar.
So, "bro," while it’s friggin adorable you jumped to his rescue bolstering each other's egos, and licking each other's wounds just understand this:
I created a saying:
Not because 2 clowns agree with each other does it mean that what they agree on is correct.
But I also know it is pointless to keep this going. Guys, good luck with the "I am a fortune cookie" posts, to boost your following, likes, and popularity!
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted What is the point of all these holier than thou posts that you are creating? Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. You're being off putting and helping no one.
It reminds me of a story when I used to work at a church. At a new member class, a random lady said that she had the gift of prophecy. I indulged while trying to make my way out of that conversation. I asked her, "How do you typically use this gift?"
Her answer - "Mostly for correcting."
How are you using your real estate acumen on BP forums?...Mostly for correcting that is just an echo chamber of old, rich guys talking about how terrible new investors are. Either do the blocking and tackling of one on one help here or stop with the "I'm so smart, you should be better" nonsense.
Come on Mr. Greene. There is no need for this. That is not an accurate picture you are painting here.
All this is just drama overspill from a different post on a different forum:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/1216921-advic...
A college student asked for advice in the wholesaling forum, about trying to wholesale in NYC.
His "Constructive Criticism" was:
This is not "constructive criticism", this is projecting your own limitations onto others. Not because you can't do it does it mean no one can or even should attempt it. This is not useful, nor is it helpful. And none of this is or should be about you. It is about helping and guiding others.
It’s a negative, limiting stance, completely opposed to the spirit of real estate investing.
And for the record, no one here is trying to sell anything to this student—not me, not anyone. Just because some of us offer services doesn't mean we’re all just here to push a product.
Instead of saying: "you can't do it under any circumstance", tell the kid how to do it, or what to watch out for. Teach, don't crush. (You should read Rich Dad Poor Dad)
Now, how about we let this go, and let's work together to help others succeed, rather than these kinds of posts!
You are just looking for trouble for no reason. This did not spill over from that forum at all. You must not have read the other posts in here. And nothing I wrote in that screenshot is anything but accurate. It's not rude. It's not mean. It's good advice that the person can take or not take.
You were just doing your usual. Can't we all just get along in the other forum, and then you hop over here to interject yourself again? You are the problem.
Now you are going to tell me how to give my own advice? This is getting to a level where I think you need to talk to somebody. You are telling me to tell everyone they can do everything, but they can't.
You are so hypocritical. Now how about we work together you say when you opted into a forum that had nothing to do with you. The only thing your post is missing is the usual call to action.
Oh boy, here we go.
I just came here because you were manipulating and gaslighting a narrative and I revealed what really happened because it is quite obvious I am not the only one that called you out on your holier-than-thou narrative.
Don't worry, I am out. Have fun.
Some friendly advice, though… when you don't agree with people, it’s OK because we’re not supposed to be a hand-holding, kumbaya-singing forum, and differences in opinions are fine.
But when someone doesn't agree with you, you become so defensive, aggressive and offensive.
Not lecturing you… just wanted to bring that to your attention.
Something to work on. :/
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted What is the point of all these holier than thou posts that you are creating? Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. You're being off putting and helping no one.
It reminds me of a story when I used to work at a church. At a new member class, a random lady said that she had the gift of prophecy. I indulged while trying to make my way out of that conversation. I asked her, "How do you typically use this gift?"
Her answer - "Mostly for correcting."
How are you using your real estate acumen on BP forums?...Mostly for correcting that is just an echo chamber of old, rich guys talking about how terrible new investors are. Either do the blocking and tackling of one on one help here or stop with the "I'm so smart, you should be better" nonsense.
Come on Mr. Greene. There is no need for this. That is not an accurate picture you are painting here.
All this is just drama overspill from a different post on a different forum:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/1216921-advic...
A college student asked for advice in the wholesaling forum, about trying to wholesale in NYC.
His "Constructive Criticism" was:
This is not "constructive criticism", this is projecting your own limitations onto others. Not because you can't do it does it mean no one can or even should attempt it. This is not useful, nor is it helpful. And none of this is or should be about you. It is about helping and guiding others.
It’s a negative, limiting stance, completely opposed to the spirit of real estate investing.
And for the record, no one here is trying to sell anything to this student—not me, not anyone. Just because some of us offer services doesn't mean we’re all just here to push a product.
Instead of saying: "you can't do it under any circumstance", tell the kid how to do it, or what to watch out for. Teach, don't crush. (You should read Rich Dad Poor Dad)
Now, how about we let this go, and let's work together to help others succeed, rather than these kinds of posts!
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted Hey Jerryll, if you were a new wholesaler / flipper (who generates their own leads) and had a marketing budget of $5,000 over 6 months, how would you spend it? (Goal would be to generate revenue to reinvest and further the business towards consistent lead generation)
The goal here isn’t to get rich or even to close 3 deals per week—or even 3 deals per month.
The goal is to set up your business to get your next deal after your first deal, right?
So, don’t focus on getting a deal with the money you have. Instead, focus on how you can turn what you have into a consistent flow.
To do that, you need to reverse-engineer what it takes to get consistent deals.
The biggest mistake people make is this:
"I have $3,000, 4 wives, 3 chickens, 2 feral ferrets, 5 girlfriends, 7 jobs, and only 2 hours every other week because of my job and all my girlfriends... how do I become successful with this hectic life and limited hours ?"
You see this kind of rhetoric all over BiggerPockets, mostly from people who don’t know what success actually looks like.
Instead, do this:
Figure out what it takes to become successful, and then use what you’ve got to get what it takes to achieve success.
So, here’s where you are now.
Reverse-engineer success, then use what you have, say $5,000, to get what it takes—a high-converting, credible website, ranked #1 on Google, plus a dedicated marketing budget (e.g., Facebook ads) to close just ONE deal.
A high-converting website costs around $100/month, and Facebook ads will run you about $2,500–$3,000/month. This budget should secure you a closed deal.
With that one deal, you’ll have more money to reinvest in marketing and get three more deals.
With those three deals, you’ll have enough marketing budget to get seven more deals—all the while, you’re working on SEO so your site ranks #1.
With seven deals (let’s say each deal brings in $10K in profit), that’s $70K, plus any leftover budget from previous deals you didn’t spend on marketing.
Now, it’s time to think about scaling. It’s tough, if not impossible, to scale as a one-person operation. So, hire an acquisitions manager, and if possible, an appointment setter.
Now, you no longer need to handle walkthroughs yourself. You can focus on generating more leads for your acquisition guy to close. Alone, you might handle five leads a month. With a team, even if you’re paying salaries or commissions, you could close 25 deals a month.
From there, increase your marketing, improve your SEO, and keep spending money to make (far more) than you spend.
Keep scaling and tweaking until one day, you realize a steady stream of leads is coming in through your SEO efforts.
At that point, you can turn off your paid marketing and enjoy the highest-quality leads for free—without lifting a finger.
Let me know if you have any concerns or questions!
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted I’ve never prospected for motivated SELLERS, so I do NOT have first hand experience on what works - or what doesn’t specific to wholesaling
However, I do have first hand experience with website optimization. We are in the hard money lending business for commercial properties - with loan sizes from $500k to $5 million. We engaged an SEO specialized to create, manage, and monitor an SEO program CUSTOM designed for our business. It started with a completely redesigned website, and included monthly tasks such as articles (most of which I wrote and the SEO expert modified - edited, placement of articles and comments etc in LinkedIn, Facebook, etc., keyword optimization, and about 20 other things I have little or no familiarity with. The first year we did this was 2023, and our deal flow tripled, while our closed deals more than doubled. Our profitability was 2 and 1/2 times the previous year. This year our deal flow is up about 15 - 20% over last year, while our profitability is about the same since we chose to become more conservative in our risk analysis.
My partner and I debated entering this SEO program for about 6 months due mostly to the fact that in another business he runs he purchased SEO services as part of a total internet marketing program - spent $80,000 and said he do not gain a single client. Analyzing it I learned that he had purchased a PACKAGED program, designed for a generic company in his general field of business. We learned that SEO could be VERY profitable, but you probably aren’t going to get the results you want from a “generic” program, no matter how costly or cheap.
The person, not company, you hire for SEO, or any internet marketing program, needs to understand your business operation, geographical area, target market, marketing position, competition md any other relevant information in order to design a program that will work. Further, they need to be expert in all the latest “whit hat” SEO techniques, and understand Google search priority.
People believe they can short cut this by utilizing search engine marketing (SEM), which is paid for search results. With the high cost of the popular keywords, driven by “auction” combination of high bids and best results, it has become much more difficult and costly then SEO.
Just thought I’d share by experience, for what it’s worth.
I agree and I will add to it.
It is not only about it not being generic, it is about the specific value you provide to your ideal audience.
So when you think about it, SEO HAS to be customized and can expliciently NOT be generic.
Everyone thinks that SEO is about tricking Google into THINKING your site offers value. This is 99.9%+ of SEO companies out there.
Instead, SEO is all about the user. NOT GOOGLE!!
You need to make sure you are providing actual relevant value to your ideal user, and thus, it has to be catered specifically to your business, and your audience!
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted All of your posts are sales techniques to drive business to you and you dial it back by making it like I was being mean to you. I've been watching you do this for ten years. "We are all here to help each other grow" is a catchline you use to sell to more people.
I’m not going to get into a back-and-forth here. Everything I mentioned above is accurate and based on real results, not just opinions. I didn’t respond to your negative post to win an argument—I replied to encourage him and others not to give up on a dream just because one person may feel it’s not achievable.
Listen, have you ever considered that maybe you and even a few others may be wrong? The reason I do what I do showing proof is because it inspires others making them realize the dream is within reach. I try to inspire.
I get a TON of these personal messages:
Frankly, the way you’ve turned his question and plea for help into a personal attack with accusations about me “selling services” is beyond me.
:) Wishing you a wonderful Sunday, Mr. Green!
This is the same thing on repeat you do. You somehow victimize yourself because someone said the word ridiculous. If you are so fragile that someone calling what you said ridiculous causes you to go into multiple long posts, I think you need to look at that. No one attacked you. No one even said anything rude. You use it to try to add a screenshot. This is what you have been doing for ten years.
You may have clients and students with results. I don't know how good or bad your business is, but no one has ever told me anything bad about you. You just aren't my cup of tea. You like to tell everyone that they can do anything (and P.S. check out the results of my students) and I tell everyone the truth. Wholesaling will not work for everyone, especially not someone new trying to do it in arguably one of the two hardest wholesale markets in the country due to price, experience, and owner savvy (NYC and LA).
Posts aren't negative if they don't agree with you. Not everyone wants to be told they are great and get participation trophies just for trying. The everyone can do it philosophy has laid hundreds of thousands of carcasses on the trail of real estate investing along the way.
Whenever you’re ready to drop this attitude and collaborate, just let me know. More than happy, to turn this into a positive relationship with you.
I’m here to help everyone—including you—achieve more success with motivated seller lead generation, wholesaling ethically, running a business, and any other areas where I can share my expertise.
So, I propose we put this bickering aside and focus on providing real value. It feels unprofessional and unproductive to turn someone else’s post into a back-and-forth. That’s not why we’re here. Let’s work together to offer genuine support and insights, rather than fueling unnecessary drama.
Agreed?
To @Jon Pflueger I apologize that your post turned into a crap-show. Let me know if you have any specific questions you have about my strategies and I'll do my best to turn your post back into a productive exchange helping you succeed.
#2 Marketing Your Property ContributorPosted The best way to build relationships with cash buyers is to establish yourself as an authority in this space. Show that you’re knowledgeable and consistently securing great deals where the numbers work.
Unlike other types of leads, nurturing a cash buyer’s trust doesn’t take much time. A few good deals are often all it takes for them to see you as a reliable source.
When you’re consistently getting solid deals, you won’t even need to search for cash buyers—they’ll come looking for you!
Instead of actively seeking out buyers, focus on what I do here: establish credibility, showcase your knowledge and competence, and lock in high-quality deals where the numbers make sense.
In this space, transparency and honesty are key. Many wholesalers miss this because they’ve been taught by gurus to mislead sellers, claiming to be cash buyers themselves. In my experience, being upfront about wholesaling and explaining that you’re looking to assign the contract has resulted in numerous signed agreements. Sellers appreciate the honesty.
So, how can you establish this kind of credibility?
When you do this, you won’t have to worry about finding cash buyers—they’ll find you.
