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All Forum Posts by: Jay Hurst

Jay Hurst has started 7 posts and replied 1419 times.

Post: Due Diligence on a wholesaler

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Carsten Mortensen:

I have bought all of my deals with an agent through the MLS. You see all the time that the best deals come off market, and wholesalers find the best deals. You also see a plethora of cautionary tales "Do your DD on a wholesaler" What does that mean to you, what are good questions to ask a wholesaler?

 @Carsten Mortensen If you are buying a house of MLS what do you do? You find your own comps and come up with a scope of work with your GC if rehab. You do all of your own due diligence on what to offer based on the data. You do not simply take the seller's word for it right? The seller has a motivation to sell to you at the highest possible number so you do not simply take their word for the price etc.

There should be no difference from a wholesaler (that you do not have a long standing relationship with anyway). They want to sell you the house. So, why would you use their numbers without verifying yourself and doing your own due diligence? As a lender it is a big red flag for me when I ask a potential borrower what the ARV and rehab budget is and have them say "well, the wholesaler says xyz". I do not care what the wholesaler says, but what are the ACTUAL numbers.

Post: Off market deals! It’s easy find yourself some off market deals!

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Kristi K.:
Quote from @Joe S.:

I got a “just listed an hour ago” text from a new western agent in San Antonio on Tuesday this week, we jumped in the car because it was only 15 minutes from our house and we were looking around the inside of the house when I got a text from the agent saying that it just sold. 


 LIkely dodged a bullet on missing out on a New Western deal...

Post: What goes into cash to close? What are closing costs and what are pre-paid items?

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925

There is a lot of confusion about what comprises closing costs and prepaids and understandably so. I see a lot of posts on Bigger Pockets asking if I should refinance because my closing costs are XYZ. Often, these numbers sound incredibly high relative to the loan amount. But when you dig into the numbers a little deeper, you find that the borrower is lumping closing costs and prepaids all together. In reality, these are two very different things, but they add up to what we call “cash to close”.

Let's define the difference between closing costs and prepaid items:

  • Closing costs are one-time fees that you will ONLY incur if you purchase or refinance a property. These can be further broken down into lender closing costs and third party closing costs.
    • The lender closing costs can include underwriting fee, processing fee, funding fee, origination fee, credit report fee, and tax service fee among others. You may also see a discount fee which means you are buying down your mortgage interest rate in exchange for higher upfront cost. Again, these fees are charged and paid to the lender to complete and fund the mortgage.
    • Third party closing costs include title company fees - including the actual title policy, escrow or closing fee, tax certification, and other title fees; governmental charges – including recording charges, intangible, and transfer taxes (depending on your state). Like the lender fees above, these would just be incurred if you refinance (or purchase.)
  • Prepaid items are the other part of cash to close total, (or what people colloquially call closing costs). These are very different than the fees outlined in the paragraph above. They are called “prepaid” for a reason because you were going to pay them whether you refinance or not. Prepaid items are comprised of property taxes and insurance and prepaid interest.
    • Property taxes and homeowners’ insurance will depend on whether or not you have an escrow account, when you are closing, and when those items are due. If you close towards the end of the year you will have to pony up more taxes because most jurisdictions have the tax bills due at the end of the year. If you choose an escrow account on the new loan, you will need to fund the account to pay the full tax bill and insurance bill when they come due. The cost of insurance will depend on when your renewal date is. If you are refinancing within 60 days of your renewal date, you will likely have to pay the first year's premium at closing. Also, if you have anything in your existing escrow account, you will get that back within a few weeks of closing. This should be more or less the same as the amount that you are putting in.
    • Prepaid interest is the interest (or mortgage payment) for the month you are closing. If your loan funds on the Nov 15th, the pre-paid interest will be from the 15th to the end of the month. Your next payment will not be due until Jan 1 as mortgages are paid in arrears, so the Jan 1 payment is paying the interest accrued in December. This will feel like you are skipping your December mortgage payment, but it will all be contained within your prepaid interest and your mortgage payoff.

           Since insurance and property taxes are something you are going to pay whether you refinance or not. These are NOT closing costs.

It is very important to understand these differences in closing costs and prepaid costs when deciding if a refi makes sense or not. In high property tax, high insurance states like Texas, you may see $20,000 in cash to close while you are saving $250 a month to refi. Well, if it was $20k in closing costs then it would make zero sense to refinance. But once you see that $16,000 of the $20,000 are prepaid homeowners’ insurance and property taxes (that you'll be writing a check for shortly anyway), you determine that the actual one-time closing cost is only $4000. Once you can determine the actual closing costs, you can quantify that the closing costs will be paid back in 16 months and the refinance now makes a lot of sense.

Post: Creative investment proposal: What do you think of this deal?

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Stephen Hood:
Quote from @Jay Hurst:
Quote from @Stephen Hood:

I have a property that I want to move into and  purchase but am running into a challenge with the offer being contingent on selling our current property. So I had an idea to get a loan from a Private lender for 400K (just under the asking price of the home) this house is already appraising for over the asking price but need some TLC. I would give the lender a 1% origination fee and payback the interest on the loan in 2K/monthly payment. At the end of the 12 months, I would refinance at 500K after fixing up the property and investing the profit from selling my current home in the new property. (I think this is realistic because many property with the same sq footage in the area with upgrades are going close to 600K). I would pay off the remaining 416K by getting a mortgage and hopefully have about 100K in equity.

Anyone have thoughts or holes in this idea? Or know any investors interested in this proposal?


 You just need a bridge loan. Commonly done. It will cost you more then you are proposing but not that much more. 

Thank you Jay. I think that would be the simplest way to go. Have you seen people who are weary of contingent contracts be willing to offer more in concessions at closing to help cover the bridge loan?

 I cannot say I see that on a lot of our bridge loans, but I will also say all they can say is no. Does not hurt to ask. 

Post: Creative investment proposal: What do you think of this deal?

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Stephen Hood:

I have a property that I want to move into and  purchase but am running into a challenge with the offer being contingent on selling our current property. So I had an idea to get a loan from a Private lender for 400K (just under the asking price of the home) this house is already appraising for over the asking price but need some TLC. I would give the lender a 1% origination fee and payback the interest on the loan in 2K/monthly payment. At the end of the 12 months, I would refinance at 500K after fixing up the property and investing the profit from selling my current home in the new property. (I think this is realistic because many property with the same sq footage in the area with upgrades are going close to 600K). I would pay off the remaining 416K by getting a mortgage and hopefully have about 100K in equity.

Anyone have thoughts or holes in this idea? Or know any investors interested in this proposal?


 You just need a bridge loan. Commonly done. It will cost you more then you are proposing but not that much more. 

Post: Refinance out of HM Dallas

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Alberto Vargas:

Any refi companies, investor friendly in Dallas? Have a HM loan, finished the house remodel, need to exit the HM loan. Outstanding note $187500, ARV estimate $270 - $280, credit score 720.

 @Alberto Vargas   Dallas based lender here, and work with a ton of investors.  Love to get you a quote and earn your business. Reviews here on BP and on Google. 

Post: DSCR loans are cheaper than a traditional 30 year fixed right now.

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Matthew Crivelli:
Quote from @Jay Hurst:
Quote from @Kristi K.:
Quote from @Erik Estrada:

They are technically more expensive than a traditional 30 year fixed. 

Let's compare two scenarios I priced out, Borrower Paid Broker Compensation

Purchase Price: $500,000

SFR

30 Year Fixed 

Credit 740 

DSCR over 1.00

Meets DTI Requirement

1. DSCR

No PPP

Rate: 8.75% 

PAR

30 Years Fixed 

2. Conventional, UWM 

Rate: 8.00%

Lender Credit: $620

30 Years Fixed 

You have to consider that a conventional loan does not have a Prepayment Penalty. The added Prepayment Penalty, makes the loan technically more expensive than a traditional conventional refinance if you decide to refinance in 1-5 years. 

BUT, 

If you do not plan on refinancing your loan in 1-5 years, then you could get better pricing on a DSCR loan.

Same scenario, with a 5,5,5,5,5 PPP structure 

Rate: 7.25% 

PAR

30 Years Fixed 

I just closed on a DSCR loan at 5.7% last week. 7.25% is insane…

On both conventional and DSCR programs you can get any rate you would like. It just depends on how much you pay to get that rate. You pay in two ways: Upfront cost and in pre-payment penalty. The more you pay upfront the lower the rate, but you have to make sure to do the math on what you payback period will be. The lower you get down in rate the more that payback has some diminishing returns. If a payback is really over 3 years it is not likely worth, but you can buy down to make your payback 20 years plus which of course is insane. But, hey, you have a low rate.

and of course a lot of DSCR loans are quote with a 5 year pre-payment penalty which of course can be VERY expensive if you have a 5 year flat 5% PPP and either rates drop or market conditions are such that you would like to sell the property. 5% of 300k for example would be 15k. You have paid for that monthly savings on the front AND back in that case.

The buydown has increasing returns in you don't refinance. Most buydowns on DSCR loans take 4-5 years to get into the green, no difference if you buydown 1pt or 5pts. It's only diminishing if you refinance before the payback period has ended. I'm not seeing rates going much lower than 5% in the near future. The last cycle where rates were on a downward trend started in 1984 and ended in 2021. Are you thinking this new cycle of higher rates is at its peak and we are going to head back to the 3%-4% range? Doesn't seem like the FED has much control this time around considering the 10Y T bill (and 5Y) continues to march higher even with the FED fund rate dropping. Are you thinking government spending is going to actually get cut and inflation was just a flash in the pan? History tells a much different story. Buydowns make sense for many buy & hold investors IMO.  

if you can tell the future with 100% accuracy sure it would be an easy decision. and yes, for some buying down a 1-3 points can absolutely make sense.  You only mention refinancing which is not only done to lower rate, but also can be used to take advantage of runup in housing prices to allocate to other investments that might generate a higher return. and of course selling the property within that pay back period. A lot of forever houses on the primary side and buy to hold forever are far from forever.  Lastly, plopping down 5% points for a marginal savings on a monthly payment might not be the most effective use of those funds, maybe being able to buy the next a bit quicker would generate a higher return for the cash.

and no, I do not believe we will see rates below 5%, and the fed has never had any control over mortgage rates with the fed funds rate as that is the shortest possible rate overnight borrowing between banks. The fed did lower rates more or less directly in 2008 when they started buying agency mortgage backed securities which sets mortgage rates directly. They kept buying, at a much smaller scale all the way to Sept 2022 when primary rates for top tier primary home scenarios were right at 6%. We have been more or less up from there since then. When the biggest buyer in the market is gone, supply balloons and rates have to go up to bring in buyers. So, no I do not think the fed is going to go back to buying MBS to drive down rates. But, all the above in the first paragraph still stands. 

Optionality is a good thing and gets overlooked often. 









Post: How to get HELOC/ or other type of loan on a rental?

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Mary Jay:
Quote from @Jay Hurst:
Quote from @Mary Jay:

hi guys,

so I have a lot of equity in one of my rentals but the interest rates are super low on it. so I dont want to do a cash out refinance on it because I dont want to lose the 3% interest rate on it.

I want to get some cash out of it via Heloc or another vehicle, so I could buy another rental, but its not my primary, so I cant get a HELOC on it from lots of banks....

I think PenFed does helocs on rentals, but because I have more than 5 rentals, I dont qualify for their HELOC loan.

IS there a bank that would give a HELOC/cash on a rental?

do not use a line of credit for a down payment.

HELOC= short term use

Fixed (first or second) = long term use like a down payment. 


 I am sorry, I am not good with a financial lingvo, could you please clarify? 

Are you saysing I should not be using a HELOC?

Are you saying I need to take a second mortgage on the rental?


HELOC is an acronym for "home equity line of credit". A line of credit is adjustable rate with interest only payments that will have a "draw" period usually of 3-5 years for investment properties (usually 10 years for primary home) then will amortize over the remaining term after the draw period. This is a the perfect vehicle to use for short term like buying a property with cash, then refinancing the property to pay the line of credit back in full, and use it again. BUT, you will pay 2-3% points higher in rate for this flexibility on an investment property then you would for a fixed second mortgage. The 2-3% points in extra cost are worth it if you plan on using as I described above because the use would be for a few months at most and due to that short term use you can survive a rate adjustment up.

But, if you have no plan to payoff the debt like when using for a down payment on a long term hold why pay the extra cost for flexibility and have the additional risk of the adjustable rate with the amortization looming when you can get a fixed rate second mortgage. 

Post: How am I supposed to buy a 2nd house!

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Shawn Callan:

Am I missing something? I'm struggling to see how I can afford to get into a second house with my current DTI. I own a house that I am living in with a VA loan and want to buy a different home and move into that as my primary residence and rent out my first home. But when I quickly run the numbers it doesn't add up. I owe 400K on my current home and would be looking at 450K for a new primary. That's 850K worth of debt. If I could rent my home for $2,500 (I hear lenders could take 75% of that projected income?) plus my monthly W2 income I get $8,675 (2500 X .75 plus 6800). My current monthly mortgage payment plus projected future mortgage payment (2900+2900 = 5800). So I would have debts of $5800 divided by $8,675 gives me a DTI of 67%. I do have money for a down payment, but I fail to see how I could make this work? Is my math wrong or is there another better way to do this? Any thing helps!!


 Just trying to clarify, what is your W-2 monthly income?

Post: How to get HELOC/ or other type of loan on a rental?

Jay Hurst
Lender
#3 Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 1,461
  • Votes 925
Quote from @Mary Jay:

hi guys,

so I have a lot of equity in one of my rentals but the interest rates are super low on it. so I dont want to do a cash out refinance on it because I dont want to lose the 3% interest rate on it.

I want to get some cash out of it via Heloc or another vehicle, so I could buy another rental, but its not my primary, so I cant get a HELOC on it from lots of banks....

I think PenFed does helocs on rentals, but because I have more than 5 rentals, I dont qualify for their HELOC loan.

IS there a bank that would give a HELOC/cash on a rental?

do not use a line of credit for a down payment.

HELOC= short term use

Fixed (first or second) = long term use like a down payment.