All Forum Posts by: David Dachtera

Renatus is in the real estate education business, not the advertising business. That's why they have affiliates like me, and most of us do not have the financial resources to do a mass mailing on that scale. If first class postage on pre-sorted mail were $0.38 per piece, you'd be talking about a marketing expense in excess of $19K for postage alone, much less the cost of preparing the mail pieces.

At $1/piece, that's $50,000! Now, given that the accepted expectable rate of return on a mailing of that kind runs around 1% (I used to work for the then-home of the National Consumer Database - we were trained on direct mail marketing), the profit to be made from those 500 reasonably expectable responses had better have been well in excess of $1,000 per responder for 100% of the responders ... or did your student only intend to break even on a business expense of what amounts to a year's gross pay for some people?

You may have "half a brain", but you are DANGEROUSLY inexperienced if you don't even know that!

You've been fortunate that your lack of education has not cost you in a major way - YET! The landscape is littered with the financial remains of folks just like you who made only a single critical mistake - and lost their entire portfolio, their life savings, even their own home and possessions in a lawsuit.

That makes you a gambler. With your luck, you shouldn't be piddling round in real estate, you should be working the game tables in Vegas, Tahoe, the Riviera, etc. No education needed there, either (but it sure helps!).

For an MBA, your lack of business savvy is as disturbing as your lack of understanding of what it takes to run a business. Maybe you partied away your college years. I'll never know. From what I'm seeing here, you'd better do SOME thing entrepreneurial, because you've demonstrated to me beyond the shadow of any possible doubt that you are not employable. I, too, have been in management with hiring/firing, budgetary and supervisory responsibility. I've fired people - on two continents - for less reason than what you've shown me here.

Then, my advice would be to approach Bob Snyder and offer to buy the company so you can run it YOUR way. He runs everything debt free, so it would an excellent purchase: all assets, no encumbrances.

Another poster made references to A. L. Williams. If you're talking about Primerica, no - Primerica is MLM (ask me how I know that), Renatus is not. When I say "insurance industry", I'm talking about an insurance broker's office and the process of bringing on a new agent. Of course, Renatus pays commission on the new affiliate's initial sales, the insurance broker might or might not.

Jason: You want everything to be your way, but guess what?

Welcome to the real world, Neo!

...and yes, as another poster said, Doug and I are telling what we KNOW. Those of you who have no first-hand experience with Renatus are guessing, at best. You really have no idea what you're talking about.

One poster described the Renatus website, but obviously did not find the course catalog. 

As for the curricula, the Education link on the menu bar of the home page has two items: Essentials and AIT. Select one and review the material presented.

What else of your homework can I do for you?

...and I just (finally!) looked at the HBS data!

Do you REALLY think data that extensive was compiled in the wee hours by some work-a-holic on a shoe-string budget?

Geez, Dude! Give yourself a rectal craniotomy!

Jason:

Pop Quiz...

1. Who extracts the student information from the university database and compiles the mailing list?

2. Who designs the survey?

3. Who compiles the letter to accompany the survey in the mail piece?

4. Who pays for the printed surveys and letters mailed to the students on the list?

5. Who stuffs the envelopes?

6. Who pays for the postage?

7. Who pays for the staff to receive the responses, open them, collect the data and tabulate those data? ("Data" is plural, "datum" is singular.)

8. Who designs the web page at the URL you cited?

9a. Who pays for the website maintenance and hosting?

9b. What does THAT cost?

10. Who verifies the data before it's published and clears it with the legal department?

11. What is the cost of the man-time in the legal department to verify the legality, etc. of the data to be published?

Have you EVER worked in Corporate America or taken ANY business school classes? Perhaps the Renatus Education should be a pre-requisite for you before you continue in your capacity as a moderator.

The Harvard Business School isn't some Mom-and-Pop operation. Their student rolls are extensive. The mailings would be hundreds - if not, thousands - of pieces, even if done by graduating class. You're not going to "job that out" to some family business or overseas virtual staff.

To the larger audience...

In fairness, Jason was, apparently, editing his post as I was preparing my earlier response. His final draft (foregoing) did not include the verbiage I cited.

@J Scott: "It costs practically nothing to survey students and track these types of statistics."

You just totally blew your credibility with me.

Go do some research, then we can talk some more.

I'm sure you realize that the gathering, tabulation, verification, publication, etc. of statistics involves expense and, as Scott Rowe pointed out, liability (accuracy issues). Perhaps when Renatus grows to the revenue level of Harvard Business school, that may become an option at some point. For now, it's rather like why do the local community colleges and for-profit trade schools not provide such statistics? It "would be nice", but it's cost-prohibitive.

Renatus is NOT MLM. The marketing side is modeled on the insurance industry, not MLM.

No one is required to participate in the marketing side of the business. You purchase classes, you can take the classes you purchase.

No purchase is required to market the education. This is in compliance with federal law.

Neither Montelongo, Kiyosaki, Merrill, Yancey nor any of the others even comes close to the Renatus business model.

"Its good money but takes alot of hard work." True of any business.

Again, Renatus is NOT MLM.

Entrepreneurship is not for everyone, either. Of course the reverse is also true: many entrepreneurs are "unemployable"; that is, being a W2 employee is not for everyone.

Hi, Pat,

Very good - you've grasped the marketing side of the business.

You DO understand, of course, that you don't have to market the education in order to TAKE the education ... ?

...and no, Renatus is NOT MLM. Ask any one who understands MLM and they'll explain the difference to you. Renatus is modeled on the insurance industry in this regard, not MLM.

Does it bother you that Renatus pays such generous commissions? Did you know that Renatus does not advertise? Would you prefer that they instead pay all that money to advertising agencies, advertising outlets (TV / radio stations, etc.),  hotels and other venues, spokespeople, production companies, event staff, etc. like the "gurus" do?

Everyone involved with a Renatus community is a volunteer. Renatus does not own the office space we lease. No one involved with the community is an employee of Renatus or the community. We're all volunteers. Can the "gurus" say that about THEIR organizations and events?

If you've researched Renatus, then you know that Nouveau Riche is history - period, end of statement. Renatus is NOT Nouveau Riche. Different organization, different business model, different everything.

Which gov website did you search for Renatus's incorporation papers? You need to look on the correct sources.

Bill G:

If you're looking for guarantees, I've none to give you, and if anyone says they have, RUN - AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

The question is not guarantees. The question is the QUALITY of what you pay for.

...and, if you indeed "get what you pay for", how likely is a $300 education to help you make $50,000? ... per deal? How 'bout the $1,997 education? ... the $7,997 education? ... the $19,994 education? How likely to help you avoid serious mistakes and the proportionally serious financial losses they tend to bring?

Thinking that a $300 "education", or even $39.95 or $27.00 can be as useful as something more valuable - THAT is what -I- find laughable!

At my Renatus community, one of the group leaders talks about how he paid over $100K in tuition to Loyola University for an education that got him a job at a major airline which lasted 6 months before he got laid off. He has never worked in that field since. Another of our group leaders has a degree in broadcasting from Lewis University here in Romeoville, IL. He has NEVER worked in broadcasting or the media! (He does do three webinars a day some weekdays.)

I may be new here, but I've been in real estate since 1985.

"Overpriced" tends to be a subjective judgement, usually based on one's income level or availability of financial resources.

I guess I'll have to agree with Doug Leedy, J Scott.

As an "insider" - affiliate, student, community volunteer - let me express my take on the Renatus experience...

In the first place, it's not a "guru academy". While it's true that the instructors are experienced, successful investors - the founder requires that instructors make $1 Million using the method they teach before qualifying them as instructors, the instructors - with at least one noteworthy exception - are not teachers. One from Illinois - who is reputed to own roughly 3% of the rental properties in Danville, IL - was a high school teacher before taking up REI full time. Another of the instructors is one of only 200 known note investors of a certain calibre.

Unlike the "gurus", Renatus establishes communities around the country. They are roughly parallel to REIAs, without the NREIA association. We gather weekly. In our specific group, we hold study groups to discuss the classes and even implement what we learn. The fix-and-flip study group actively invests and raises private money during the study group session. There is also a buy-and-hold study group and another for the Essentials.

The "gurus" hold classes out-of-town. You have to travel, pay lodgings and attend classes, then you come home and you're back on your own to network and find support.

Renatus classes are on-line, 24x7. Classes are re-recorded as updates are needed, and there is no additional charge to access the updates. The community is there to support you.

The Essentials classes are available for one year. The AIT classes, if you get the $20K package (Essentials + AIT), are available to you from that point forward if fully paid, "for life" - meaning for the life of Renatus - including any / all updates and additions they choose to offer.

The communities also offer two workshops a month (most of them): a real estate workshop and a marketing workshop called "Super Saturday".

If you'd like to learn more, you may want to get on Scott Rowe's webinars and experience him first hand. He is the most active trainer in the nation doing two and three webinars a day for his teams. Scott is not the founder of Renatus, but is one of the three Founder's Advisory Board members who co-own the office where suburban Chicago community meets.

I can hook you up with those webinars, if you like.

If you REALLY want to compare success rates, try this: the "gurus" "boast" a success rate below 15%, blaming their lack-lustre performance on the students' failure to follow-through. Our suburban Chicago community, on the other hand, has outgrown it's facility, we must use the patio area of the Fuddruckers Hamburger restaurant across the street from our office to accommodate the fix-and-flip study group. Essentials is the biggest study group, then fix-and-flip, then buy-and-hold. Current unqualified estimates of our size are somewhere around 300 members. I'm not sure what that says about success rate, but success overall looks pretty good to me.

I guess if there's any "entrance exam" it's your own response to the initial presentation of the education as a gateway to your own REI business and as a marketing opportunity for those who choose to pursue it as such. Entrepreneurship - much less REI - is not for everyone, and those not entrepreneurially inclined will dismiss any such presentation, regardless of the business being presented. I recently wrote to someone in another thread that concern over how to afford it can be taken as a gauge of a person's readiness or suitability to take on an entrepreneurial endeavor.

Y'know, I have peripheral neuropathy, and it's REALLY hard to type some of those long words without messing 'em up!

So, that's my "last word".

One a personal note, my own preference is to approach new endeavors with as much education as I can reasonably acquire. This takes away most of the "fear factor", since fear is typically born of lack of knowledge. No school can teach you to invest successfully any more than school can make you a successful entrepreneur. Success is something you must "bring to the table": it's intrinsic, you don't acquire success from external sources.