All Forum Posts by: David Dachtera

@J Scott: "It costs practically nothing to survey students and track these types of statistics."

You just totally blew your credibility with me.

Go do some research, then we can talk some more.

I'm sure you realize that the gathering, tabulation, verification, publication, etc. of statistics involves expense and, as Scott Rowe pointed out, liability (accuracy issues). Perhaps when Renatus grows to the revenue level of Harvard Business school, that may become an option at some point. For now, it's rather like why do the local community colleges and for-profit trade schools not provide such statistics? It "would be nice", but it's cost-prohibitive.

Renatus is NOT MLM. The marketing side is modeled on the insurance industry, not MLM.

No one is required to participate in the marketing side of the business. You purchase classes, you can take the classes you purchase.

No purchase is required to market the education. This is in compliance with federal law.

Neither Montelongo, Kiyosaki, Merrill, Yancey nor any of the others even comes close to the Renatus business model.

"Its good money but takes alot of hard work." True of any business.

Again, Renatus is NOT MLM.

Entrepreneurship is not for everyone, either. Of course the reverse is also true: many entrepreneurs are "unemployable"; that is, being a W2 employee is not for everyone.

Hi, Pat,

Very good - you've grasped the marketing side of the business.

You DO understand, of course, that you don't have to market the education in order to TAKE the education ... ?

...and no, Renatus is NOT MLM. Ask any one who understands MLM and they'll explain the difference to you. Renatus is modeled on the insurance industry in this regard, not MLM.

Does it bother you that Renatus pays such generous commissions? Did you know that Renatus does not advertise? Would you prefer that they instead pay all that money to advertising agencies, advertising outlets (TV / radio stations, etc.),  hotels and other venues, spokespeople, production companies, event staff, etc. like the "gurus" do?

Everyone involved with a Renatus community is a volunteer. Renatus does not own the office space we lease. No one involved with the community is an employee of Renatus or the community. We're all volunteers. Can the "gurus" say that about THEIR organizations and events?

If you've researched Renatus, then you know that Nouveau Riche is history - period, end of statement. Renatus is NOT Nouveau Riche. Different organization, different business model, different everything.

Which gov website did you search for Renatus's incorporation papers? You need to look on the correct sources.

Bill G:

If you're looking for guarantees, I've none to give you, and if anyone says they have, RUN - AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

The question is not guarantees. The question is the QUALITY of what you pay for.

...and, if you indeed "get what you pay for", how likely is a $300 education to help you make $50,000? ... per deal? How 'bout the $1,997 education? ... the $7,997 education? ... the $19,994 education? How likely to help you avoid serious mistakes and the proportionally serious financial losses they tend to bring?

Thinking that a $300 "education", or even $39.95 or $27.00 can be as useful as something more valuable - THAT is what -I- find laughable!

At my Renatus community, one of the group leaders talks about how he paid over $100K in tuition to Loyola University for an education that got him a job at a major airline which lasted 6 months before he got laid off. He has never worked in that field since. Another of our group leaders has a degree in broadcasting from Lewis University here in Romeoville, IL. He has NEVER worked in broadcasting or the media! (He does do three webinars a day some weekdays.)

I may be new here, but I've been in real estate since 1985.

"Overpriced" tends to be a subjective judgement, usually based on one's income level or availability of financial resources.

I guess I'll have to agree with Doug Leedy, J Scott.

As an "insider" - affiliate, student, community volunteer - let me express my take on the Renatus experience...

In the first place, it's not a "guru academy". While it's true that the instructors are experienced, successful investors - the founder requires that instructors make $1 Million using the method they teach before qualifying them as instructors, the instructors - with at least one noteworthy exception - are not teachers. One from Illinois - who is reputed to own roughly 3% of the rental properties in Danville, IL - was a high school teacher before taking up REI full time. Another of the instructors is one of only 200 known note investors of a certain calibre.

Unlike the "gurus", Renatus establishes communities around the country. They are roughly parallel to REIAs, without the NREIA association. We gather weekly. In our specific group, we hold study groups to discuss the classes and even implement what we learn. The fix-and-flip study group actively invests and raises private money during the study group session. There is also a buy-and-hold study group and another for the Essentials.

The "gurus" hold classes out-of-town. You have to travel, pay lodgings and attend classes, then you come home and you're back on your own to network and find support.

Renatus classes are on-line, 24x7. Classes are re-recorded as updates are needed, and there is no additional charge to access the updates. The community is there to support you.

The Essentials classes are available for one year. The AIT classes, if you get the $20K package (Essentials + AIT), are available to you from that point forward if fully paid, "for life" - meaning for the life of Renatus - including any / all updates and additions they choose to offer.

The communities also offer two workshops a month (most of them): a real estate workshop and a marketing workshop called "Super Saturday".

If you'd like to learn more, you may want to get on Scott Rowe's webinars and experience him first hand. He is the most active trainer in the nation doing two and three webinars a day for his teams. Scott is not the founder of Renatus, but is one of the three Founder's Advisory Board members who co-own the office where suburban Chicago community meets.

I can hook you up with those webinars, if you like.

If you REALLY want to compare success rates, try this: the "gurus" "boast" a success rate below 15%, blaming their lack-lustre performance on the students' failure to follow-through. Our suburban Chicago community, on the other hand, has outgrown it's facility, we must use the patio area of the Fuddruckers Hamburger restaurant across the street from our office to accommodate the fix-and-flip study group. Essentials is the biggest study group, then fix-and-flip, then buy-and-hold. Current unqualified estimates of our size are somewhere around 300 members. I'm not sure what that says about success rate, but success overall looks pretty good to me.

I guess if there's any "entrance exam" it's your own response to the initial presentation of the education as a gateway to your own REI business and as a marketing opportunity for those who choose to pursue it as such. Entrepreneurship - much less REI - is not for everyone, and those not entrepreneurially inclined will dismiss any such presentation, regardless of the business being presented. I recently wrote to someone in another thread that concern over how to afford it can be taken as a gauge of a person's readiness or suitability to take on an entrepreneurial endeavor.

Y'know, I have peripheral neuropathy, and it's REALLY hard to type some of those long words without messing 'em up!

So, that's my "last word".

One a personal note, my own preference is to approach new endeavors with as much education as I can reasonably acquire. This takes away most of the "fear factor", since fear is typically born of lack of knowledge. No school can teach you to invest successfully any more than school can make you a successful entrepreneur. Success is something you must "bring to the table": it's intrinsic, you don't acquire success from external sources.

 Just curious, J, how many colleges / universities track such stat.'s?

How many Harvard Business School grad.'s go on to become successful business people? How many end up convicted of Ponzi schemes or other scams?

How many Northwestern Medical School grad.'s go on to become successful practicing healthcare professionals? How many end up flipping burgers for lack of available jobs in their field?

How many (choose a) Law School grad.'s go on to become prominent attorneys? ...ambulance-chasing shysters?

Unless you can point the readers to sources of any of those statistics, the lack of an answer or response is probably the best you can expect.

Remember also that any such claims must be backed up with qualified, verifiable data.

 Sorry, J Scott, can't let that go unchallenged.

What I WON'T do is attempt to offer any of my own thoughts or opinions on it.

What I WILL do is refer you to a COMPETENT real estate attorney of your own choosing and suggest you ask him/her about that statement. You might even ask IL's own

Attorney General, Lisa Madigan who is VERY pro-tenant and anti-investor. Not sure which state you're in, in IL we have "professional tenants" who pay the first/last month's rent plus whatever deposit and then live rent free in our properties for the duration of the eviction process (18 to 36 months or more). I suppose that would be a non-risk, in your book.

"And guess what, I didn't even charge $15,000 for that lesson."

Neither did I! ...though you could easily lose 10 times that much or more per unit/property!

 If a $5,000 education keeps you from making a $50,000 mistake, how "laughable" is that?

Are you implying that someone associated with Renatus is a felon? What evidence do you have?