All Forum Posts by: Derreck Wells

@Jonathan R McLaughlin a letter of interim control isn't cheaper in the long run. It's actually more expensive. In order to get the letter you pay for a lead inspection, then you pay a deleading company to do the "emergency work" - which requires setting up containment and doing what's necessary, then you pay for another inspection, then a year later, you get to pay all those people again. You're paying for extra inspections and extra labor and materials setting up containment. 

@Tinah Canda like this... "You're fired."

@Alecia Loveless EVERY lease requires you to give the Lead Paint disclosure and sign the waiver. That's Federal law. That landlord I mentioned in NH above was fined $26,000 for not giving those to 1 tenant. If you haven't given them to other tenants, I'd suggest you do so immediately before you get jammed up over them. 

This guy in PA was fined $84,000 for not giving them...

"Muhammad Ashraf (PA) paid a penalty of $84,000 to settle alleged Lead Disclosure Rule (LDR) violations related to six residential lease agreements. The alleged violations included failure to comply with LDR requirements to provide prospective tenants an EPA-approved lead hazard information pamphlet, a required Lead Warning Statement, and an appropriate statement disclosing knowledge of the presence of lead-based paint and/or lead-based paint hazards. A city referred this case to EPA because a child with a high elevated blood-lead level resided in one of the rental properties."

And this 73 year old landlord is still in court for not giving them to a tenant. https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdpa/pr/northumberland-county-man-charged-violating-toxic-substance-control-act


@Account Closed The RRP isn't about removing lead paint. It's "Renovation, Repair, and Painting" and even plumbers need to have the certification because they drill through painted walls. Every contractor in every field in the country is supposed to take the class and get the certification. Plumbers, electricians, painters, framers, handymen, and anyone else that gets paid to work in someone's house... including you. Basically it tells contractors that if they're going to be disturbing paint in a house built before 1978, they need to set up containment as if there is lead paint, even if that's just drilling a hole in the wall, OR they need to use a specific lead test kit and then they can set up lesser containment (but they still need containment because the store bought test kits aren't like the X-ray guns the inspectors use). This company in MA got find $50,000 and is on probation for 5 years because they didn't follow RRP rules, and then lied about it and faked the documents we are all supposed to keep (including YOU if you're billing yourself a contractor). https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/house-painting-company-illegally-removed-lead-paint-sentenced
You really need to go to https://www.epa.gov/lead and learn about the laws and what you're required to do as a contractor to get your RRP cert. Note, the RRP cert DOES NOT allow you to delead in any capacity. It just teaches you how to safely work with the lead paint in houses and how not to get fined like the examples I've mentioned in this thread. 

@Account Closed you are absolutley mistaken. You cannot just paint over lead paint and be okay. Your profile lists you as a contractor, I don't know where you're from, but all contractors are required by federal law to get RRP certified by the EPA, they would have told you some basics about lead paint in the class. 

There is an encapsulant that we are allowed to use, but it's not a paint. By "we" I mean licensed lead paint abatement companies, not a regular contractor even after taking the RRP class, the RRP class doesn't allow you to delead. The encapsulant can only be used on certain components and the component has to be tested first, it needs to be applied to a specific thickness, and I need to keep special paperwork for 7 years if I encapsulate anything. 

The RRP training is very important and I'd strongly recommend you take the class. Even the show on HGTV called Bargain Mansions got jammed up over it and had to pay over $66,000 in fines ...

Growing Days, LLC (KS/MO), whose owner, Tamara Day, hosts HGTV’s Bargain Mansions television show, entered into a settlement to resolve alleged Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) Rule violations depicted on the show. After observing violations on the television show, EPA conducted on-site inspections and compliance monitoring activities. The settlement was conditioned upon the company’s performance of several projects to promote broader awareness of and compliance with the RRP Rule. The projects included creation of an RRP instructional video, to be posted on the company’s website and blog, and linked to its social media platforms, thereby reaching a large audience of potential future home renovators. EPA also obtained settlements with the following contractors associated with the Bargain Mansions show: Homoly and Associates, Inc. (MO), Open Door Homes, Inc. (KS/MO); Next Generation Construction, LLC (KS); Remco Demolition, LLC (KS/MO); and KC Demo, Inc. (MO). Collectively, the businesses associated with the Bargain Mansions show, including Growing Days LLC, paid $66,287 in penalties to settle alleged violations for improper renovations related to the show.

@Dave E. you should educate yourself quickly. It's a federal law that you need to give the lead paint pamphlet and lead disclosure to all tenants. There was a landlord here in NH that got fined $26,000 in September 2020 for not giving the tenants the proper papers. Every state has different laws about who you can rent to if there's lead paint in the house. MA is strict and you cannot rent a home built before 1978 to a family with a child under 6 without a Lead Certificate on file with the state. That Lead Cert here in MA means the house is "lead safe", we don't have to remove all the lead paint and make it "lead free". Some states, however, do require "lead free". A lead inspection cannot be done by a home inspector, it's a completely different thing and requires a specific license, training, and equipment. The EPA rules are here, but your state laws will vary. You need to look them up and learn what you have to do there. https://www.epa.gov/lead

@Lynn McGeein the agent didn't mention it because they don't know the lead laws. Most agents aren't very good. (And to the agents that are about to argue with me over this statement, just ask yourself if you know the lead laws, if the answer is "No", then you're not a very good agent. A good agent will know the laws in their state and be able to help their buyers navigate them. There are more to the laws than the standard disclosure form. Take this opportunity to decide to become a better agent and go learn the laws.) As for demanding the Lead Cert before closing, that's a very valid route she can take and probably the best one. The landlord was in violation of the law the minute they signed the family to the lease without it on file, and the EPA is issuing very large fines. And if it was a couple that got pregnant and had the child after living there, the law is very clear that the landlord has to put the tenant up in a hotel while the unit is being deleaded. They cannot evict because the tenant had a child, that's discrimination. Alternatively the seller could simply discount the selling price and be done with it. The MA law actually says that a buyer is liable for any lead poisoning that happened on the property prior to closing if the buyer doesn't start the deleading process within 90 days of closing. If the process is started in that 90 day period, they are no longer liable. The state has attached that liability to the property so it transfers from owner to owner until the property is deleaded. It is actually possible that the seller knows someone has high blood lead levels and is about to be sued and that's why he's trying to sell so quickly. If the sale goes through before he gets sued, the new owner would be liable, unless they delead within the 90 day window but since the agents aren't telling buyers about this... it's a dangerous situation. I personally know a lady that lost her building in a lead paint lawsuit. She had inherited the property from her husband and had no idea of the laws. A professional tenant moved in and immediately claimed her child was lead poisoned on that property and sued knowing there was no lead cert. The tenant won and the owner couldn't afford to pay the lawsuit so had to sign over the property. If she had sold it it wouldn't have sold for enough to cover, but the tenant was willing to "settle" for the deed. 

@Jonathan R McLaughlin

@Tinah Canda You can fire an attorney and real estate agent at any time.

You can pay for a lead inspection just like you'd pay for a home inspection. The seller doesn't want that because they would then be legally obligated to tell any other potential buyers that there is definitely lead paint. 

Do not believe them that the tenant's aren't concerned, I'd bet the tenant's don't know that there is lead paint and the danger their infant is in. They can sue the owner for renting to them without a lead certificate on file with the state. You can also have a conversation with the tenants and let them know. 

You're not screwed, in fact, you have all the power in this situation. The current owner is the one breaking the law, not you. A simple call to the board of health or the EPA would cause all kinds of headaches for the current owner. Last September a landlord was fined $26,000 just for not giving the tenant the lead disclosure and lead pamphlet. They're not messing around anymore. 

https://www.epa.gov/lead

You can get more info about lead paint at that link.

Your landlord and agent are wrong and I would honestly fire them both. The liability for that tenant will be yours if you close. The law states that you have 90 days after closing to delead a building to avoid the liability of past tenants (not just the current one). MA is cracking down and going after owners hard on this. They want every rental in the State deleaded. 

You can get a lead inspection (I recommend Anderson Lead Inspections at www.andersonlead.com) and use that to get an estimate on deleading the building. Then use that estimate to get the seller to pay for the deleading. You can reduce the offer by half of the cost of the deleading AND have the seller give you a concession for the other half. That way you both pay half of the deleading, but because the seller came to the table with a check for half, you would use that check to pay your half and essentially you're paying your half with money that was included in the mortgage. 

The half you took off the price of the house was the seller's half. The seller's concession is basically a legal way that your bank finances repairs as well as the mortgage (the bank pays the seller, but the seller gives you the money back for the repair). If you took the total cost of the deleading off the offer and the seller paid it all out of his profits, then you actually have to come out of pocket with the cash to pay for it. With the 50/50 split, at least you're financing your half and essentially the tenant is paying for it with the mortgage paydown.

Good luck on your purchase!

Derreck

@Dave Smith In MA, if the property isn't deleaded when you buy it, you are responsible for the past tenants that may have been lead poisoned while living there unless you delead within 90 days of closing. The state is trying to get every rental property in MA lead safe, and they figured this was the best way to do it. If you delead within 90 days, and maintain that standard going forward, you are no longer liable for any lead paint issues.

You can use this in your negotiations on any new properties you look at. If it doesn't have a lead certificate on file, it IS going to cost you to delead, the state has pretty much made it mandatory at this point. (Don't let that scare you though, I've had clients negotiate $20k off the selling price, and I only charged them $10k for the deleading, so it can actually work in your favor for it not to have been done yet.)

By law, you also cannot rent to someone with a child under 6 unless you have a lead certificate on file with the state. If you rent to a couple with no kids and they have a baby, you are then required to delead the unit with the added expense of putting the tenants up in a hotel during the process.

If a unit is a 2 or 3 bedroom, you'll end up having a family apply. You cannot deny the family because of the lead paint either, that's considered discrimination (you're refusing them because they have a kid) and is against the anti-discrimination laws of the state. If there are kids under 6, you NEED to have the unit deleaded and have a lead certificate on file.

If the unit has been inspected for lead but not deleaded, you also cannot do any construction or remodeling in the unit. They consider that unauthorized deleading and it will prevent you from ever getting a lead cert. The best you would be able to get is a Letter of Environmental Protection, which tells everyone you did illegal work then hired a licensed deleader in to fix it. It generally increases your insurance rate and decreases your tenant pool (who wants to rent from a shady landlord that does illegal work?).

If you delead the property it will actually increase your tenant pool and the rent you'll be able to charge them. A deleaded unit is more valuable to a tenant then a non-deleaded unit, even if they don't have kids under 6, they still like to know they are safe from lead paint issues. Anyone can get high blood lead levels, the law only specifies under 6 because it affects the developing brain more severely then a it affects a fully developed brain.

If you want to message me any addresses you end up looking at, I can check the database and see if there was ever an inspection done on the property for you. I'll be able to tell if there's a lead cert on file already too. Maybe you'll get lucky and it's already been done.

Good Luck on your future investment!

Derreck

Lead laws are very state specific, so it depends on where you are as to what you have to do. You can't be sued, but I expect you will have to delead the apartment. Since the previous owner knew and didn't tell you or do anything about it, I'm sure you can sue them for the cost of the deleading at the very least, probably more. 

Good Luck!

Derreck

What kind of loan do you have from the bank?

@Rebecca B. Pay a contractor $300 and they will walk the property with you and write up an estimate for the property. Always compensate them for their time. Why would someone want to spend an afternoon away from their families or paying job to work for free? Especially where you don't own the property and never will (if you're just planning to wholesale it) and the contractor has absolutely no chance of getting the job?