All Forum Posts by: David Dey

@Cody Krecicki sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

If you can find the owner, why not offer a cash for keys scenario?

First do a title search and make sure the title doesn't need to be cleared by the actual foreclosure.  If the 6k is property tax lien, then they come with the property regardless of which way you go.  However, if it is an IRS lien, or state tax lien then do the foreclosure, and wait out the statute of limitations on their right of redemption.

(You can always try to negotiate with them regarding doing a partial release of lien on the house for a fraction of the whole lien.

Anyway, back to the main idea.  If the title is clean, you can offer up to the amount that you were gonna spend on the foreclosure and be ahead of the game.

Hope this helps

@Randy Estrella, @Rich O'Neill is right on the money!! (Make sure you upvote his post)

And kudos to you for catching the paradigm shift that most investors miss!!

We are in the business of helping people and solving problems!!

In fact, to remind myself of that, my official business model is "professional problem solver."

Now this isn't some sweet hug each other hippy thought process.  (I apologize if I offend any hippys out there... But let's face it, if you're a hippy and on "BIGGER POCKETS," you are a sell out anyway!!)

You are here to make a profit, however, the correct method to do this is like any other business.  You provide valuable goods or service in exchange fair profit.

I go into deeper detail on this concept in the following post.

(If you like it, don't forget to upvote mine as well... I know, shameless plug!! But hey, I'm not a hippy)

Anyway, I'll leave you with one more thought.  Exactly as Rich said, when you call, don't just jump to the money and the offer and the items that interest you.

Take the time to listen.  Ask them questions as to what is going on with them.  And let them talk.

If you listen long enough, they will tell you their problems.  If you really listen, they will even tell you how to solve them.

Remember, your best tools for negotiation are your ears!!

P.S.  Here is that post I mentioned.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/62/topics/243...

Hope this helps.

@Ned Carey VOTE VOTE VOTE!!  (I wish I could give you 5 more votes for that saying alone...  I'm definitely gonna use it!!  The first  two times I'll give you credit... Then NO MORE!!😜 JK)

@Dominique Littleton Ned is sooo on point with that saying. (That's one credit)  if your market is over priced in one area, it will be soft in another.  The secret is to NOT be a "one trick pony."  

My personal business model is, "professional problem solver." (Trademark pending.. You stay away Ned!! 😜)  

What that means is, as a PPS, you job is to find people with a problem and solve it for them.  

Can you get a list of bankruptcies in your area, how about divorces or probates?

Tax delinquent properties are often a symptom of a larger problem.

We just did over 150 deals in 2015 with a tax lien fund that had no idea of what to do with properties they actually got back.  (They were the lien holder and were looking to get their profit when they did the tax deed foreclosure.  They expected to have others outbid them and collect their money.  About 85% of the time, their strategy worked.  However, on the "crap" ones nobody bid on, they had no exit strategy.

We stepped in and became their exclusive "crap disposer."  (Hmm does that make my new biz model, "investor septic tank?" trademark pending, so stay away Ned!!)

Bottom line, see what the market gives you and go for it.  Think outside of the box and look for problems to solve, then go out there and do it.

P.S. Ned, all those pops were just in good fund, please don't moderate me!! 😇

P.S.S.  Ned, congrats on becoming a moderator.  Your quality posts and respect in this community are what got u there. 

Congrats!!

@J.R. King the answer is that it does trigger the due on sale clause.  However, right now with the current state of interest rates being as low as they are, the banks are not foreclosing on that issue.  It doesn't make sense to them to foreclose if the payments are being made.  

However, check with a knowledgable real estate Atty in your area to see if your state specifically prohibits land trusts.

If not, then you might use a land trust to take the property in.  Name the trust after her.  "Jane Smith family land trust," for example.  ( there are a number of posts that go step by step through the process)

The lease option is probably the safest because it doesn't necessarily have to be recorded to be valid.  The issues I see regarding this option are:

1) if you don't record it, they may try to do something around you.  

Answer:  record an affidavit of memorandum regarding a contract.  You will put a cloud on title that will have to be cleared by you.

Answer 2: have her sign a lien on the property of some sort to you that will expire when your option expires or cancels if you default.

Answer 3: Again put the property into a land trust with a third party Atty as trustee and the lady being the beneficiary.

(This part does not trigger a due on sale clause at all as she is still the owner here)

Then, do a contract for beneficial interest, this is like a L/O or an agreement for deed except it is for beneficial interest of the land trust. This solves 3 issues, 1) with specific instructions by both parties to the atty trustee, both you and she will be covered regarding going around you, and for her default.

2)  this also resolves the issue of what happens when you exercise your option in 9 months and need her to sign the deed.  The trustee has full power to sign.

3)  this will also clear up any issues regarding any seasoning issues for the time you want to sell the property, since the property will be seasoned in the trusts name those 9 months, or if sold immediately, the trust is still named the "Jane Smith family land trust so it was her putting the property into a trust so she could go out of country.  (Just a thought)

Which actually leads to a really simple solution. How about a net listing agreement with her to sell the property for what she owes and keep the difference. I thought I saw you were a realtor. (You will have to spell out the details very specifically, as disclosure is key, especially with such a large profit. However, your argument is that you are also improving the property and managing it thus deserve a larger cut) you will also need an LPOA to sign the deed.

If you are not a realtor, the same can be done with a partnership contract where again a third party atty has an LPOA with specific instructions to sign the deed at your direction and dispurse according to the contracts specifications.

Hope this helps

@Howie Baker

This actually has a couple of relatively simple solutions.

As for the LLC's and corps on the Secretary of State, the address may give you more info then the actual Info on there.

Google the address and you will see the business come up often.  You may also get the contact info there as well.

Also, look up the address on the property appraiser's site.  If the property is a single family home, the owner is the probable owner of the company.

Another option is to look up the mortgage on the property.  Do a name search on the company name, yes the mortgage will show the company name, but the bank will require the owner/manager to sign the mortgage.  You will get his/her name there.  

Here is another option, look up the evictions.  If the company handles their own evictions, most of the complaints will have their contact on the notice of default to the tenant.  

If your state requires a corporate owned property requiring an Atty to file for them, all the better.  The atty has a fiduciary responsibility to make sure your contact gets to the owner.  (As a side note, if you see quite a few evictions, this may be a symptom of a bigger problem and may be a good filter)

Again, a name search on the register of deeds will give you other search options.  Notice of commencements, affidavits, etc.  some may even include phone numbers.

Hope this helps.

@J.R. King the deal has a number of options for you, many of which do not require credit and maybe not even any money.

Since the seller, it seems, is willing to sell the property for what she owes.

How about taking the property "subject to," which is to take the property subject to the existing mortgage, not paying it off or assuming it, but just taking over the payments.

If the seller is resistant to this, how about a lease option?  Leaving a limited power of attorney with a third party attorney, to be able to enforce the contract and sign the deed once the obligation is fulfilled.  With this option, you can hold the property, make the payments to the bank on her behalf and once the 9 months is over, sell the property for your profit.

How about a wrap around mtg?

Now, you can probably grease the wheels to getting some of these options through by offering a few bucks in her pockets, (maybe 5k?)

Anyway, give these a shot.  

Hope this helps

 Ok, so I misunderstood. I thought that you had received the list from your realtor.

So depending on how many leads you have in total, you may want use your own sweat equity and take your list and input it (one by one) into your property appraisers/assessor's search tool to see if the mailing address matches the subject property.

You could also, ask the courthouse, or your tax collector to give you the same list with the additional info, or at least give it to you into a spreadsheet format that you can manipulate to get the info to sift to the top.

As for finding phone numbers:

I posted this a Lil while ago but don't know how to send the actual post, so I'm copying and pasting it here.

Let me first start by saying that to find the owner of the property, first you must go to your local property appraiser's site, then look up the address to find out who owns the place. That's the first step.

Here is a link to every property appraiser and public records search in the country. Just click on the map to your state, then click on your county, then go to the data online for which ever branch of public records you need.

http://publicrecords.netronline.com

Hope this helps, so here is that other post.

Finding absentee owners and their phone numbers is actually pretty easy now days. In this age of Internet and public records and ease of access, It's very difficult to stay off the radar.

Everybody leaves a digital footprint somewhere.

Here are some basic tools I use to find people.

Free first:

Whitepages/anywho/zabasearch/

Google is the most underrated tool to finding a person. Starting with their name and hopefully city or at least state. You can find out pieces of the puzzle that make it easier to locate the person.

Ex: if they are a professional of some sort, i.e. Doctor, lawyer, now you have areas you can find them. If they are a part of a forum, it pops up.

I once pulled up a person that was a on a site for classic cars that posted a request for parts along with his phone number. (Bought the house and made a 20k flip profit)

Public records are amazing: if you locate the area where the seller lives, make sure you look them up in their counties property appraiser, and clerk of court/register of deeds.

Examples of places you can find them:

If they pulled a permit on a house the notice of commencement may include their phone number.

If they were in a lawsuit and represented themselves, most forms will include a phone number.

If they were a landlord and did an eviction, the 3 day notice or complaint will usually have their phone number.

There are quite a few areas the info will show up in public records.

Social media is the hands down best way to locate people.

I have found more people through Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn then I can tell you.

My favorite example is where I located the owner of an abandoned home on Facebook. I had tried every tool I had available to me prior including free and paid services. Including high end skip trace tools. I had found out she had a daughter but couldn't find her either. Then I tried Facebook. Her daughter popped right up showing that she worked at the local Applebee's as a bartender. And on her page her most recent post was a request by her to her fb friends requesting a ride to work. And in the response was.... Wait for it... Her mom apologized for not being able to pick her up as she was heading into work right then. (Thank you oversharers) a quick click over to moms fb page revealed that she worked as a waitress at the crackerbarrel next door.

One of our bird dogs actually went over there and talked to her, set up an appt and we ended up buying the house for $600.

Cheap next:

Ussearch is a cheap skip trace tool that costs about $49 for a 3 month unlimited use service. There is a lot of junk in to sift through but many times you get lucky. The best tool in there is their direct link to social media.

More costly but worth it:

We have access to a service called tracers that, for .50 per pull, gets us some of the most up to date info on anyone out there.

We also employ a couple of private eyes that are somewhat entrepreneurial that will not only locate the owner but set up the appt for between 500-1000 per closed transaction.

These are a few of the tools we use to locate our sellers... And our buyers.

Hope this helps!!

P.S. I mentioned if the owner is a professional of some sort.

If they are, check your states Secretary of State corporation look up, manytimes in their filings you will find their phone numbers.

P.S.S. If they own or run a website, that turns out to be an easy search. Whois.sc is like a whitepages for domain owners. Unless they specifically use and pay for a private service, you will have their email and phone number right there. (Try Zillow for example. I used the tool to speak to someone at the company to learn how to get info on expired listings off Zillow)

P.S.S.S. If you still can't find the person, give me a ring and I'll try to help you find them.

P.S.S.S.S. As to the offer, make sure that you talk to them and discuss their situation with them before you make your offer. You may be leaving money on the table by just making an offer and not seeing where you can solve their problem.

Ex: they may not have the ability to do the probate in which case a lower offer with you covering the cost and walking them through the process may be in order.

Maybe, they have liens and judgments against them that by you negotiating you can save a truckload of money.

Ex: code enforcement against the property that you can get reduced by bringing the property into compliance. (I once got a 300k code enforcement lien reduced down to 1k. I benefited from my sweat equity of solving problems as opposed to giving it to the gov.

My approach is to ask the owner to forget what liens and junk is against the property, what do they need for themselves. Then I put that number or solution into the contract "plus payoff of all liens and encumbrances."

Hope this helps

wow, @Chris Jackson and @Aryelle Collins thank you for your kind words!!  Aryelle, I will be responding to your PM when I get back from NYC.

Chris, let me see if I can give you some pointers regarding your questions on how to best use your realtor.

Even using the normal channels, you may wanna look for the least used approach.

For example, how about expired listings?  

Your realtor can get access to this list, even further narrowing down the list to your specific criteria but thenyour realtor can further actually reach out to the expired listing seller and bring you to them with an offer on a silver platter.

Try finding a list of expired listings with delinquent taxes.  

Bottom line, see what everyone else is doing and do something else!!

As for your tax delinquent list, the problem is  you have only picked up half the story.  What you need to do is take that list and filter it one step further.  Abandoned and tax delinquent is an amazing list.  Estate and tax delinquent will get you deal after deal.

Just tax delinquent is not quite enough.

Again, not to belabor the point but, see what everyone else is doing and do something else.  Once you've made your list valuable enough, go the extra step that everyone else isn't doing.  The owner is getting dozens of postcards and letters daily.  So call him/her!!   You will automatically stand out!!

Hope this helps!!

@Michael Nicholson thank you for your kind words.  Any way I can be of service.

@Aryelle Collins here's another way you can be very proactive... And get a lot more deals.

What I shared with you, was a campaign I actually ran, with one exception, instead of mailing them, I called them.

Here's the hint, if you make your list targeted enough, then every lead will be a quality lead.  For example, as mentioned before, instead of just looking for 2-4 units with high equity, how about looking for 2-4 units which have been owned for over 20 or more years with the owner out of the state?

Here's the thought process.  If you are an owner of a 2-4 unit, then you are thinking of cashflow, which makes you an investor.

An investor thinks, "everything's for sale for the right price."

When you call, you can expect 1 of 3 responses, "yes," "no," or "how much?"

Very rarely will you get a angry response.  Most know what you are doing and will actually respect you for your proactive approach.

The second thing is that, the earliest age when you start to think about real estate as an investment is in your 30's.  Therefore, the average owner you call that has owned their property for over 20 plus years will be in their 60's or older, which means that they are probably thinking of retirement at this point.  As well as the fact that they are in another state adds to interest in selling.

Also, probably having not looked at the price  or value of the property in the last 20 plus years, he/she will have the current price somewhere based on the time he/ she bought it in the first place.

So when you ask them what the lowest price they would accept for an all cash offer, don't be surprised if you get an absolutely low priced offer. 

Of course, just because you asked for a cash price doesn't mean you can't make an owner finance offer.

I usually ask the lowest price/cash offer question first, to establish the number.  I then ask if they have a mortgage.

If the answer is no, my next question is, "would you be willing to take any of their purchase price in payments.

The answer will always be either, "yes," "no," or "what do you mean?"

If the question is the last one, I then explain owner financing along with the tax benefits of not taking the full price in one shot.

(Btw, I don't mention interest until they do... I have gotten quite a few no interest loans that way)

Bottom line, since I chose the list with such specific criteria, every lead is a good lead.  So I take the proactive approach of calling them.  You will get a better response.

If you write 200 letters you may get 1-2 deals.  If you call 200 leads, you should get at least a 10% close rate.  (Does 20 deals sound good to you?)

Hope this helps

Public records??  Anybody?? Free access to whatchu want??  Anybody?? No??

Ok, that's my rant for the day.

Alright, especially since you are right here in Florida and the sunshine law applies, the property appraiser has a list of every property in that county.  Why?  To charge taxes of course!!

Also, since you can't charge the same type of tax for a single family home as you would a strip center, they have codes for each type of property there is.  These are called D.O.R. Use codes (Dept of revenue) or Property use codes.

Using this code you can get a list of every kind of property there is.

Do you want a list of only 2-4 units?  They have it.

How about a list of 2-4 units which were owned more than 20 years with the owner out of state?  They have it!!

Call your local property appraiser and ask them if you can access this list by their website or if you have to buy the list on cd.  Either way, it will be worth your while.

Hope this helps!!