@Henry Lazerow Congrats bud , seems to be a great deal
Already lot of good info . I personally got some of these lists from cook and lake county . So here is my first and experience
1. Tax delinquent list : Cook county takes some time , but there is absolutely no need to go to the office. Most employees don't know and even if they know , they are not obligated to provide this info .
This is the job of FOIA officer , he is not doing afavor , he is doing his job , so Open an FOIA request and I got the tax delinquent lists with out paying a single penny . Matthews advice is valuable , you have to be super precise in what you want and his format is great .
The only thing to note is that - it won't be instantaneous , they will take some time , but just follow up via phone and email with the FOIA officer
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I don't have experience with water stut off list , but if you follow above template they might provide , I am just unsure if this is information that is Available via FOIA .
thanks much @Jerry N.
@Kumar Tummalapalli thank you for the detailed reply and to answer some of your questions.
1. We are getting the house for a good price, it has a lot of sentimental value as well as we have rented it for 6 years, prior to that my wife's parents had rented it for over 22 years (I know) but we understand the value has to make sense as well, similar houses in the same block have been sold for much more, same layout and footprint. We also have
Going with a 203k Standard instead of the streamlined, we hired a HUD 203k consultant who will oversee, coordinate and check the work of the contractor to make sure it's done correctly, budget and on schedule. Our job is to choose the materials, colors, etc. The Consultant also requires us to have a 10% contingency for any problems.
@Patrick Ellis Thank you for your reply, we might need an extra bid but I'm still waiting for two more, I will let you know if that changes. Do you have a website?
@Hectorayala Understood , That totally makes sense .
Coming to hud 203k consultant - you said "oversee , coordinate and check " . That's pretty broad - I can say that a good HUD consultant will properly see if the work that was supposed to be done is completed or not . Again this is not 100% , If your consultant was a contractor or inspector , then may be you can expect some better results . But ideally either you or some one who is knowledgeable in construction should know how to validate the quality
"Oversee and coordinate" - I don't think a hud inspector is involved in this . You have to make sure that the project is running wit in budget and on time , your contractor should technically "oversee and coordinate" . HUD consultant will mostly verify the work and approve draw requests - that's pretty much it .
So , a good contractor is what you need .
Matthew Paul, school me then, take my example above to Patricia and tell me why I'm wrong.
quick suggestion - ignore some of the contractors that respond here if your BS meter shoots up , you should read their other posts and you will understand if you even want to engage with them.
Bryan you are not the one at fault here. You gave it your honest best, and several of the replies seem to be saying you made a mistake in taking this on. Or your personality is getting in your way. (its not) Reminds me of when I would hear from bosses who said I was "abrupt" or "demanding". I used to get fired so much for meeting deadlines ahead of schedule!
That said, I really feel for you. Persevere! When I do any fixing, I am the GC, and I hire contractors who may also be used to being "the boss". But i don't call myself the GC. Really dont care. I search for folks who listen well and love their work. And do what they say. I prefer to avoid the ones who brag constantly about their wonderfulness.
I have had some nightmarish times but it always revolved around money. I had one guy who thought I should just give him money. They are all bigger, stronger, and more used to violent behavior ... I guess I'm lucky ... I wish you the best, just think how great your house will look when it's done ...
I've had pretty good luck with Craigslist. Also what about high school shop teachers who know of former students who are working in construction ... Nextdoor.com is a good local referral site.
very well said .
Angie Shires
Ned Carey
Tim Johnson
Max T.
Kenneth Garrett
Matt Groth
Lee Bell
Mike Dymski
Lynette E.
I really appreciate your inputs, I do! That being said, I feel there were a lot of assumptions made and that's probably because I didnt go into that much detail since I was trying to see if anyone else was in general agreement. I apologize for not going into detail so here some detail to hopefully clear things up and would again like to hear your inputs:
The property I purchased needed everything. I chose to tackle the interior of the house first and in doing so gutted most of the interior of the house as mentioned before. I will admit I had zero idea what I was doing to begin with, but I did hire a mentor/licensed GC for 8 weeks to coach me through most of this. I understand 8 weeks isnt a lot of time to master a trade, but given my background it was more than enough to get me started. Furthermore, none of the estimates I received was to finish work I had started or didn't feel like finishing or am not capable of finishing. I reached out to contractors to get estimates for things that are still on my list and have not gotten to yet and haven't even touched yet, so I dont understand some of these responses. Yes they see the work thats going on. Im 95% complete on my part of the renovation and addition. I dont want to spend another 3-4 years doing a driveway, landscaping, hardscaping, the exterior, and the other items I mentioned, none of which I have touched yet as stated before. So Im trying to sub out the work to people who are faster than I am, but I want a fair price!
Ned = Thanks of responding. I'm in Columbia, MD, which as you know, is pricier than Glen Burnie as an example. A yard of concrete is a yard of concrete, lap siding is lap siding, and labor per hour is labor per hour. It honestly bothers me immensely that both myself and the homeowners around me get quoted higher pricing than someone in another county. I would love an explanation as to why that is please. Given that materials cost the same within a 20 mile radius, the only reason I can come up with for the cost being higher is that a contractor knows they can get more money out of someone who doesn't know any better from a higher priced area, which is highly unethical in my book and it infuriates us.
Tim = Thank you for responding.
1) Why cant they just say that, why waste both of our time?
2) I will try to be better at that approach, I feel I am being detailed though, but will see what I can polish.
3) As an example, the home I purchased did not come with HVAC. I asked a very reputable small business to come out to price a full system. I will yield to the professional on this since I admittedly dont know much about J load calculations and duct drag and so on and so forth. I kept my mouth shut and let the pro do his thing, and got quoted double what I was expecting. Again, any quote Ive gotten I keep my mouth shut. I dont play dumb and I dont act pompous, I try not to give them any reason to flex the price in either direction. Im honestly at a loss as to these quotes.
4) See #3, but I honestly just say Im in the middle of an interior renovation, I dont have time to focus on the driveway (for example), Id like a quote please to have the disintegrated asphalt driveway replaced with concrete.
5) This is alluding to work thats started and unfinished. As stated above, these quotes are for work I havent started yet.
6) I will reach out to some, thanks
Kenneth, thanks for responding too.
Concrete repair = I have a pool that was built in the early 70s. There is approximately ~3000 sq-ft of concrete decking around the pool, some of which has sunk or cracked and needs to be lifted or replaced. This quote was to remove and replace approximately a 15' x 15' portion of that area.
Driveway is approximately 125' L x 10' W, no hills, bends, or any significant grade.
I still dont understand why the area matters? Materials are the same within the given area and so is labor given the people I have conversed with. How is this justified ?
Matt = Thanks for responding. See above, but the quotes aren't on anything I've touched yet. As for siding, half the house is brick, so we are really only talking R&R for siding for half of an 1800 sq ft house. Again, nothing Ive touched yet. The only thing I've touched is the addition that doesnt have siding because its brand new. So given that these quotes are based on work I havent started yet, any ideas ?
Lee = thanks for responding, driveway is approximately 125' L x 10' W, no hills, bends, or any significant grade. Eye roll is right.
Mike = I will continue to do so. These quotes are spanned over the last 3 years, so Im still not sure what Im doing wrong. Thanks for responding.
Lynette = thanks for responding. My portion of the renovation and addition is 95% complete, these are other things I havent tackled yet and dont want to spend another few years doing myself. I do have to say that after almost four years of doing this every day, Id be willing to put my work up against any professional. I may not be as fast but the quality and knowledge of code is on par. Furthermore, regarding the contractors I have hired and surrounding neighbors have hired, Ive seen their work. Its fast, sloppy, incomplete, not plumb, level, or square, lumpy mudding, etc. When you are charging hourly rates like that, yes we/the homeowner expect the work to follow suit. Lastly, Im not a hoverer. I was a mechanic in high-school and through college, and I know how bother some it is.
In closing, I feel like Im trying to be taken advantage of. My goal is to get all of this off my plate so I can focus on RE investing and am using my home as a primer for finding a good contractor or gc to work with so I can use them for my upcoming investments......and am severely striking out. I dont agree with a contractor charging higher prices given your zip code, thats unethical to me, and unless given a justification, will continue to fight that. I have a very good idea as to what it costs be a contractor given my mentor, and he continues to keep me updated with the market, the problem is he now lives out of state and obviously can't physically help in person anymore. I really appreciate your inputs and ask you to continue to give me inputs given my feedback above.
Looking forward to Re investing!
@Bryan you definitely have a point . The one thing I am in disagreement is wth regards to location based pricing , that is common in most service businesses
But somethings that tend to be over hyped commonly here are - that costs vary crazily depending on location , Ofcourse there are extremes in anything , but most of the numbers in your quotes cannot be attributed to just location based costs.
Also like some suggested , you not being nice to them or demanding extra details is making them give excess bids. So if you are nice to them and serve coffee every morning and not question anything , will you get a good rate ? ofcourse no , Its better to throw your cash in trash bin rather than losing money like that . If being nice solves contractor problems , then you wouldn't see these many postings . An unscrupulous contractor is unscrupulous , no matter you are nice / not nice .
So the root cause of your problem is simple , you just bumped in lot of bad contractors. There are lot of good contractors out there , who work honestly , but the harsh reality is that th percentage is less . I would suggest to collect some innovative ideas mentioned by experts in this thread , and in general google search and try them . Understand that , most of the answers to these type of postings , simply say that we don't have enough information or they assume and accuse that you are the worst guy so that's why you are getting absurd bids .
A honest and skilled contractor might charge you more price depending on complexity , but he won't give you absurd bids and waste every ones time , So keep searching
And finally - no matter the way you find the contractors , either through referral , thumbtack or any other process , don't take anything granted . Especially referral doesn't mean anything , if you want price savings , and want to manage the project without GC , you have to be vigilant and make sure , everything is on track .
Wish you luck and hope you and the good contractor get connected and you both make money.
Bryan, there's a lot factoring into the prices you received. Builders are complaining about the "unrelenting cost increases" of building materials. Another is the labor issue/shortage. Contractors are in high demand right now and some trades like framers are in short supply. Also, most of the items on your list require more skill, permitting, and are time consuming. That cost breakdown? That ended a long time ago in my market.
Don't scream but other than the landscaping/hardscaping, the quotes aren't shocking me. For example: "Framing costs $7 to $16 per square foot to install top and bottom plates with studs. When including drywall, you'll spend $20 to $30 per linear foot. Framing costs change slightly for load bearing walls, with the type of material used, and for door and window openings." (End/Average Cost HomeAdvisor).
My recommendation is to get creative:
The book on estimating rehab cost is being rewritten every day. You'll be the expert when your rehab is over. I look forward to reading your book!
finally some one gives some sane advice - rather than the usual - ask for references..thanks much
Ok with out going too much in to details - " I do like this all the time and hence its correct " is not a valid argument . Lets say you write in contract that you pay $6000 for the work and would it be okay for the owner to say " I will only pay 5000 , because that's what I always do "
I see one investor mentioned that , he does these in all his remodels . That's fine. But it is not applicable to your scenario , Because it boils down to the price . I am ok to see the contractor make money , but the cost savings have to be shared and the contractor should clearly educate and say that - it is a reasonable compromise and that we would save some time and also see some price saving .
Coming to the point of worrying about mechanics lien and moving on . the home owner need not be always be worried about mechanics lien , its an instrument to genuinely protect contrcators who were not paid , it doent mean that every contractor can put a lien on every property . Also its always not as simple as the exat wording , there are lot of implied things in a contract . For ex - a contract typically mentions that all work will be done in a workman like manner , now what is work manlike manner is an entire topic but I can definitely say that " we do like this all the time and so it is workman like" The judge will kick the contractor out in no time . For these tings they refer to the industry specifications - a handbook published by the organization , I think its called TCNA or something . It doesn't matter what the "investor" thinks or what the "contractor" thinks - its what the standards say or else you can take a 1 $ bill and say its worth 5$ for me :-)
All of the above is not said in order to encourage litigation , my aim is to only say that , there are lot of safeguards in place and either party need not be scared of something , It depends on who is trying to exploit whom
In this case , if you feel that - this is genuinely not a big deal for you , and that the job is priced reasonably well and if the contractor had best intentions then I would let it go . But every one here don't know all the stuff in order to conclude and either say " Go after the guy" or" pay the agreed price and move on "
I am not an expert but few high level things - it seems atleast in some states , installing third layer of flooring is illegal . Also if the existing linoleum flooring is cracked , uneven or not sticking properly , then I wouldn't put the new floor on top of it . Also is height an issue - at thresholds or under cabinets ? A proper flooring expert can probably ask better qns
I hope it works out well for both you and the cntrcator
@Hector Ayala - The experts have already spoken and I think its pretty clear that bid is insane . Now lets talk about next steps.
The common reaction is to get more bids . This won't solve anything . Because typically , people in this situation , would google for 203k approved contractors and so on -- or most probably like @Jim K. rightly mentioned - recommended by lender/hud inspector and so on . Even if you get more bids , I won't be surprised even if the other bids come in much higher .
Sorry to digress a little but I cannot hold myself from asking this qn .
1. When will this purchase be a deal - lets say you are buying this property for 200k and with repairs 65k and other 203k related costs , lets say you are ALL IN at 285k . What is the price range for a similar property in fixed up state . For all of this to really make sense , it should be atleast 340-350K . ( The assumption here is 65k is real cost for rehab ) . so in essence , once you know real costs - you should try to see atleast a buffer of 30-40k for it to even make sense.
1a. Do you have a After Repair appraisal done based on scope of work ?
2. Now lets assume that , this is truly a deal if you can get the work done with a reasonable cost . First , you need to have a true expert who has construction knowledge , or you need to spend quite a bit of time to understand what they mean when they say "rewire the house" . I can say for sure that - this information is widely available but it takes lot of commitment
For ex in the line item remove popcorn ceiling , repair cracks and retexturise - for 7800. First things first - when you see something like this , you have to ask the bid to be more detailed . The contractor will resist as that is the first indication of a knowledgeable client . Stand your ground . Second - the labor and material has to be separated . and the most important , you don't need the ability to do all this stuff but sadly you have to understand what is involved in this. I say "sadly" because if you go to a professional , you expect them to know the stuff and you shouldn't have to research everything . But in the world of remodelling , it's a must
in this line item - if you take removing popcorn ceiling , its not a skilled job , its just labor intensive and with right tools - even some one who is not at all handy can do that . Apply a solution or water and scrape . Second repair cracks - how extensive are these cracks , is it drywall or plaster . Mostly I see cracks in plaster . Again patching them is not a highly skilled task , however achieving a smooth finish needs skill , but a reasonable handy person can learn fairly easily . I think you get the idea . Now with this information , you can easily qn the quote and I can say they either learn that you are a bad target or make them more realistic
Also finding a contractor who gives a quote - lets say around 35k is only the step zero. Its a very common stratgey for these 203k specific contractors to vanish after the close - they know that you are not a professional investor and that you would panic .So what would you do if the contractor stops answering your call from day 2. How do you terminate him . Do you have a back up who is ready to do the work at 35k . Did he get any material draws at close and now what happens to those?
The other variation is demo happens at a brisk pace , they take first draw , and then the work keeps slowing down . Do you know to monitor and ask the qns abt scheduling ? what does your contract say . if you are like most customers , you would have used the standard fannie mae contract which doesn't cover even 20% of topics . Another common strategy is to hit you with change orders . and they say , this is not in scope. See how it came full circle . That is the reason that scope of work should be super detailed . And if the materials are also provided by them , no matter wht tier they mention in SOW , unless you have the SKU number noted , expect to get the cheapest stuff available in HD or Lwes .
This is in no way meant to discourage you , its just to raise awareness - I have been through a similar process and have learned these as I did more and more research
I can probably write another 10 pages - abt contract paper work , lender , closing costs , attorney , first draw and so on . Happy to get on a call and explain more about my research .
Good luck