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All Forum Posts by: Bradley Bogdan

Bradley Bogdan has started 8 posts and replied 231 times.

@Mark Graffagnino Thank you so much for sharing. I hope the $3000 was enough to cover your time at a reasonable per hour rate, it sounds like even though you probably spent a decent amount of time pursuing it, it was probably an ok return (maybe 50-100 hours total for $3000? $30-$60/hr?). 

As for the Section 8 horror story nonsense, I don't see how this has anything to do with Section 8. The woman made enough to rent the place without Section 8, seems to have checked all the appropriate boxes that would usually tip us off to a problem tenant on her app, and she still elected to not pay rent. It also sounds like there was no real hint of trouble until after the program ended for her (due to her having a good job). Hard to see how this is a Section 8 issue. 

I'm curious if you think this process is worth pursuing with any tenant in your area, or if you think someone contesting the garnishment and fighting you every step would have made this too time intensive to be worth it?

Post: Moving right along.. hopefully!

Bradley BogdanPosted
  • Investor
  • Eureka, CA
  • Posts 233
  • Votes 222

@Sarah Miller Check with your local Housing Authority for the specifics, but generally they make it an easy process. They will likely just need a few things signed (like a w-9 and direct deposit information) as well as proof of the change of ownership. They will then start paying you at the beginning of the next month, it will be up to you to make sure prorated rents for the month you close in are part of escrow. There won't be any additional inspections or anything required, just the normal annual ones moving forward, which you'll be notified of. Definitely ask your Housing Authority when you're transferring everything if any annual inspections are currently scheduled, as something like that could get lost in the changeover. 

A good positive letter with an invitation to meet face to face and your contact information, as well as a token gift ($5 gift card to starbucks or something home-y), should leave your tenants with a great opinion of you and will hopefully encourage them to give you and your new units the same respect you'll be giving them. 

Good luck and let us know if your deal goes through!

Seems like you're covered by the Philadelphia PHA, which uses the following FMRs:

Final FY 2015 FMRs By Unit Bedrooms Efficiency $814 One-Bedroom $959 Two-Bedroom $1,156 Three-Bedroom $1,440  Four-Bedroom  $1,546

Post: Fair Market Rent ... means ...?

Bradley BogdanPosted
  • Investor
  • Eureka, CA
  • Posts 233
  • Votes 222

@Lois Stern An excellent question, with a long, complicated answer :-). 

First off, before I give a short and long answer, I'll echo what others have already said: FMRs for your area may or may not reflect what you can actually rent your place for. Your own homework or other expert opinions on what your exact place in your exact location are going to be much more valuable than the broad numbers your local PHA uses for a much larger area. That said, here's a short and long version on how they come up with numbers for your area and how they may be helpful to you. 

SHORT ANSWER: Your local FMRs are calculated by HUD periodically to reflect the 40th or 50th %ile of rents+utility costs borne by the tenant. In other words, they seek to reflect what HUD would expect a solidly blue collar American renting a foursquare, adequate place to pay in the PHA's area. This can be a helpful # if you want a safe estimate of what a B class property can rent for in an area you're not familiar with, provided comps for the neighborhood aren't way off. As the number includes utilities, you'll need to knock it down $50 to $150 depending on unit size and utility costs in your area to reflect just the rent HUD calculates, minus the utilities.

LONG ANSWER: Your local FMRs are the result of a mindbogglingly complex formula that usually reflects a multi year rolling 40th %ile of rents+utilities borne by the tenants in a PHAs area. If that seems like an overly broad, one size fits all neighborhoods number that could lead to a lot of areas where that number is ether way too high or way too low, that's because it is. If you live in a large city (top 10 type city), your PHA probably uses the 50th %ile to help open up more of the city to Section 8 voucher holders. This helps a bit, but still runs into the same issue of being a one size fits all number. In recent years, about half a dozen PHAs in large urban areas have piloted zip code specific FMRs to tailor rents more specifically to neighborhoods rather than just the whole city. These efforts have shown decent promise, and there is currently a proposal to expand the program to the top 20-40 cities nationwide. 

Now, where on earth does HUD get enough info to plug into this formula to spit out the FMRs for an area, and whats a more simple way to explain how they actually get the FMR? HUD uses data from rent surveys for 2 bedroom units, supplemented by general rent trends in smaller areas that may not generate enough data in rent surveys on an annual basis, to calculate the amount of rent paid. HUD then also partners with NOAA and utilities to estimate how much utilities cost and whether weather is a substantial factor in those calculations. They then use set %ages up and down to give you FMRs for other size units. This obviously has the potential limitation of being inaccurate if rents for a particular unit size are skewed high or low in your area, but in general are surprisingly accurate.

But wait! There's more! HUD is the first to raise their hand and admit that a single number isn't a great reflection of rents across all neighborhoods, so they give local PHAs some tools to help ensure they have flexibility to make sure vouchers are able to be used in decent areas of the city, as well as make sure they're not paying 150% market rent for a unit in a war-zone. The first is a broad strokes tool where the PHA can adjust the FMR for the whole area by up to 5-10% up or down. The main purpose of this is usually for small areas to tweak their FMRs to better reflect rents where the lack of data hampered a good initial calculation, to chase a skyrocketing or plunging market more closely (remember the 3 year rolling set of data HUD uses) or to soften big swings in FMR for current tenants. The PHA also can assign FMRs by neighborhood (outside of the pilot program I mentioned), provide exceptions for tenants to rent places above FMR if they require reasonable accommodations, and is required to not spend more than market rent for a unit, even if the unit is under the FMR cap (ie don't pay top dollar for war-zone units). There are other tools as well, but those are the easy to explain ones. PHAs use some or all of them in different ways, sometimes giving the impression to landlords like @Amy E. that inspectors are just taking a guess at things. The bottom line is your local PHA has a lot of leeway to make sure that they have a good process to assess whether a tenant/the gov't is overpaying for a unit. 

Now, practically speaking, what are some of the things an inspector might take into account when checking whether you're way above market or not on a unit? Ask your inspector! It really does vary quite a bit locally as to how much your PHA digs to see if your place s above market. In some places, like Baltimore, we have landlords on the boards talking regularly about how they're able to achieve a good premium above market renting to Section 8 tenants. Clearly, those inspectors are choosing housed tenants over worrying about spending too much. Conversely, there are locales which will use sq ft, amenities, neighborhood, comps and condition to see what your place is worth to them, in an effort to save the taxpayers some money. 

A few final notes, the HUD website always publishes all of their data and FMRs for all areas here: http://www.huduser.org/portal/datasets/fmr.html

Your local PHA will give you a copy of their FMRs and local utility values if you go into the office and ask. Many also have them on their websites, but not all. Some are still stuck in the Stone Age. They are separate non-profit entities from HUD, so small town PHAs can seem pretty backward sometimes.

You can always calculate what the max someone with X income and a voucher can rent your unit for using the Happy Software rent calculator. Someone posted it in the downloads section of BP. Not the most intuitive to use, so if anyone ever has questons, shoot me a PM and I can walk you through it. Easy once you get the hang of it though. 

Final caveat, while FMRs are the max you can charge for rent, and reflect the maximum a PHA is willing to subsidize your unit for rent+utilities, you can usually get closer to that FMR number for your rent due to the "40% rule" and sometimes through some extra, more complicated tricks as well. If any of those last two sentances confused you, forget I mentioned them. They're worth another book length post and math lesson in and of themselves :-).

Hope this helped!

Thanks for the tag @Dumitru Anton.

@Shawn Connors, if you're looking to specifically rent to veterans, or just subsidized tenants in general, I would first and foremost make sure the possible rents for such tenants support your purchase. If you'd like to post the local housing authority for the prospective area, I'd be happy to give an estimate of what you could expect for rent based on what HUD approves locally.

Once you make sure the #s work, just be diligent in your tenant selection/screening. For regular Section 8 tenants, good screening will eliminate many/most problems and help you avoid many of the horror stories you hear on the boards. For HUD-VASH (the VA run program to help vets with Section 8 vouchers), the paperwork and standard of unit is virtually identical, but with the added support of your tenant having an assigned social worker who regularly visits them at their home, and occasionally will bring in other service providers if needed. 2+ Bedroom units tend to be in much lower demand for HUDVASH though, so bear that in mind if you're purchasing an SFR.

Keep us posted on how it goes! Let me know if I can help at all. 

@Al Williamson is spot on. Its tough to fix bad habits of existing tenants. Definitely give yourself a buffer period before locking into a longer term lease to see how the "retraining" goes. 

As for background checks, etc. on the existing tenants, I probably wouldn't bother. The example they've set thus far speaks much more loudly than any info you'd find.

I don't know the rules in TX, but I would look into whether you're able to increase the security deposit when you start a new lease with an existing tenant. You might be able to fix that issue on the fly.

Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes!

You are correct, for a smaller project LIHTC is not the way to go, especially if you don't have a partner that has won them before. 

Unfortunately, I don't have much experience with the HOME program, so can't be more helpful.

Hopefully some others here will chime in!

Post: duplex with "problematic" tenants

Bradley BogdanPosted
  • Investor
  • Eureka, CA
  • Posts 233
  • Votes 222

Disaster waiting to happen seems a bit strong, but it is a situation where you'll want to take extra care when running your numbers and ensure that you'll still get a good deal even if you have to pursue a formal eviction on both units. 

Include the possible eviction costs, budget higher on the rehab (in case the departing trouble tenants do more damage) and an extra 2-3 months of holding before being able to rehab and rent/flip in case you have to follow through the full eviction process. 

@Zachary Lowe

 It depends what use agreements/tax credits/other tax stuff is in place. The seller would be obligated to let you know what agreements and such are currently in place, and whether they would transfer in a sale. As there are a ton of different wrinkles and programs, both local and federal, its tough to be a bit more focused on what could be in play. 

IF the complex is under a subsidy/tax credit that fixes rents as a % of Area Median Income, rents would be tied to the annual income data provided by the gov't, though an owner can always opt out of further assistance and charge market rents if they so choose. Again though, try to get more information out of the seller. 

Originally posted by @Zachary Lowe:

@Bradley Bogdan  Interesting information.  That's exactly why I asked this question, I didn't realize that there were "tax subsidy" rentals.  It never occurred to me that there are people that do not qualify for Section 8 and live only on SSI.

@Chris Field I would love to do that here.  I think there is potential!  Good luck!

 Pretty much no area has enough Section 8 vouchers to adequately serve the low income population. Almost all folks living on SSI qualify, but many can't get a voucher, or in some areas even sign up due to the waitlists being so long that they closed them.