Getting Busted in Ohio for Wholesaling and Praticing RE without a License

[Brian Gibbons]

Read Ch 4735

Get a lawyer

Get licensed and do wholesaling in OH

02 July 2014

http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/Fall10REdiscipline.pdf

LYNETTE S. MALY, Twinsburg, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated Revised
Code 4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was accessed a civil penalty in the amount of $500.00,
when she held herself out as engaged in the business of real estate, while not licensed under
Revised Code Chapter 4735.

SHARI L. MORTER, Stow, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated Revised Code
4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was accessed a civil penalty in the amount of $500.00, when
she held herself out as engaged in the business of real estate, while not licensed under Revised
Code Chapter 4735.


MIKE ZUREN, Willoughby, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated Revised Code
4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was accessed a civil penalty in the amount of $1,000.00. The
Commission found that Mr. Zuren, when in expectation of collecting a fee, commission or other
valuable consideration, held itself out as engaged in the business of selling real estate in a
publication and offered or attempted to offer, listed or attempted to list 20 real estate properties
in the publication, without first being licensed under Revised Code Chapter 4735.

SHARI L. MORTER, Stow, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated Revised Code
4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was accessed a civil penalty in the amount of $500.00, when
she held herself out as engaged in the business of real estate, while not licensed under Revised
Code Chapter 4735.

GARY UNDERHILL, Wooster, Ohio, as the result of an investigation of the formal complaint,
was found by the Commission to have violated Revised Code 4735.02, unlicensed activity, and
was accessed a civil penalty in the amount of $2,500.00. The Commission found that Mr.
Underhill attempted to or assisted in the negotiation of the sale, exchange, purchase, rental or
leasing of real estate on 47 occasions without first being licensed under Revised Code Chapter
4735.


PAM BALINT, Ravenna, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated Revised Code 4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was assessed a civil penalty in the amount of $3,500.00. The Commission found that Ms. Balint acted as a real estate broker or real estate salesperson without being licensed under Chapter 4735. Ms. Balint’s conduct included accepting phone calls inquiring about the subject property and directing or assisting in the procuring of a prospective buyer to purchase the subject property. In addition, on five occasions Ms. Balint advertised or held herself out as engaged in the business of selling real estate. She placed signs with her phone number on it in the subject property’s yard. She ran an ad in a newspaper regarding real estate for sale with her phone number and name. She provided a flyer marketing the subject
property with her name and phone number on it. She marketed the property on the phone on two occasions.

EVIE KIDDER, Akron, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated Revised Code 4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was assessed a civil penalty in the amount of $21,000.00. The Commission found that she consistently took actions to list, negotiate the sale of, sell a property, and made several requests to collect a commission on the sale of a property. Ms. Kidder acted as a real estate broker or real estate salesperson without being licensed under Chapter 4735.

TONY HOFFMAN, Akron, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated Revised Code 4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was assessed a civil penalty in the amount of $21,000.00. The Commission found that he consistently took actions to list, negotiate the sale of, and sell a property and made several requests to collect a commission on the sale of a property. Mr. Hoffman acted as a real estate broker or real estate salesperson without being licensed under Chapter 4735.

DIANE SHELTROWN, Waynesville, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated R.C. 4735.02, unlicensed activity, but no penalty was imposed. Ms. Sheltrown, on 2 separate dates, directed and assisted in the procuring of prospects which was calculated to result in the sale of a property and she intended or expected to receive compensation or other valuable consideration for the conduct.

MUNNA AGARWAL, Euclid, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated ORC 4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was assessed a civil penalty in the amount of $1,000.00. The Commission found that Mr. Agarwal agreed to negotiate and negotiated a potential purchase of property, agreed to list and listed, agreed to offer and offered a property for sale, advertised and held himself out as engaged in the business of selling real estate, directed and assisted in the procuring of prospects and in the negotiation of a transaction which was calculated to result in the sale of a property and intended or expected to receive compensation or other valuable consideration for the above conduct, while not licensed under Chapter
4735.

ELYHUE E. DUFF, Akron, Ohio, was found by the Commission to have violated ORC 4735.02, unlicensed activity, and was assessed a civil penalty in the amount of $1,000.00. The Commission found that Mr. Duff assisted in the procuring of a prospect and negotiation of a transaction, which was calculated to result in the sale of a property, wrote a sales contract for the parties, and intended or expected to receive compensation or other valuable consideration for the above conduct, while not licensed under Chapter 4735.

[Bill Gulley]

And, like what have I been saying about contracts being voidable due to lack of consideration, bad faith dealings, not having the ability to buy, not have the intent to purchase or perform??????

Another one bites the dust!

Orange is not my color!

If find it odd that so many smart guys are in prison, what's that all about? :)

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Bill Gulley  Orange is the new Black  

[Bill Gulley]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Bill Gulley  Orange is the new Black  

 And, there are those that would wear a cow patty on their head if they thought it was in style! I'll pass! :)

[Tyisha G.]

Wow this thread has been intense yet informative. In a nutshell is it best to steer clear of wholesaling unless you have a license or just buy the property first and then double close? 

Definitely do not want to do anything illegal or that has the grounds of such a part of it.

[Jerome Harrod II]

Quick question, 
What if a wholesaler finds a deal, puts the property under contract, and then uses an agent to market/sell that at a higher price? Is that a legal alternative for wholesalers rather to getting licensed?

Or What if you are an unlicensed Rehabber that has a property under contract, You have the intent to buy for yourself, so you brag about the deal to your investor circle, but another close rehabber friend approaches you about buying you out of the contract via assignment? Is that still considered "brokering" or Should one just keep silent until closing?

----

Personally, I'am a Licensed Realtor and I feel the legal term "Brokering" should not be all encompassing or all inclusive when it comes to Real Estate. 
This monopoly or illuminati like emphasis on forcing people to be licensed is nonsense.

If the Medical field held the same view on "Treatments", then treating your friends basic wounds after a friendly football game with alcohol and a wrap would be illegal in the medical field since you're not a licensed doctor.

If the Law or FTC field held the same view on "Counseling", then simply adding the verbiage "I'am not a legal attorney, please consult one" or "Profit is not guaranteed" 
should not excuse many of us of writing guides, tips, or any informational material without their specific license to ensure our expertise.

I mean, 7 outta 10 Realtors can't even tell you the difference between 1978 Lead Paint Disclosures and Lead Paint Free Certificates (LOL), but as big Lead Paint risks are, barely anyone no one knows about this. Yet this whole "Get Licensed" gig is to "protect the public"?  As a Realtor, I laugh every time I hear that.

This thing has too much control/power over the market for it's own good, I remember Redfin winning a case for MLS Data against the Commission, winning point was something about the threat of the Commission being a "Monopoly".

Sorry for the long rant-like post, but It's a shame the States requires that one needs to pay a grand or two in fees a year plus renewal classes to learn nothing, but have the power to move and sell paper.

[Ned Carey]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Bill Gulley  Orange is the new Black  

 Or 

Dancing in the gray area will get you orange. 

[Bill Gulley]

Originally posted by @Jerome Harrod II:

Quick question, 
What if a wholesaler finds a deal, puts the property under contract, and then uses an agent to market/sell that at a higher price? Is that a legal alternative for wholesalers rather to getting licensed?

Or What if you are an unlicensed Rehabber that has a property under contract, You have the intent to buy for yourself, so you brag about the deal to your investor circle, but another close rehabber friend approaches you about buying you out of the contract via assignment? Is that still considered "brokering" or Should one just keep silent until closing?

----

Personally, I'am a Licensed Realtor and I feel the legal term "Brokering" should not be all encompassing or all inclusive when it comes to Real Estate. 
This monopoly or illuminati like emphasis on forcing people to be licensed is nonsense.

If the Medical field held the same view on "Treatments", then treating your friends basic wounds after a friendly football game with alcohol and a wrap would be illegal in the medical field since you're not a licensed doctor.

If the Law or FTC field held the same view on "Counseling", then simply adding the verbiage "I'am not a legal attorney, please consult one" or "Profit is not guaranteed" 
should not excuse many of us of writing guides, tips, or any informational material without their specific license to ensure our expertise.

I mean, 7 outta 10 Realtors can't even tell you the difference between 1978 Lead Paint Disclosures and Lead Paint Free Certificates (LOL), but as big Lead Paint risks are, barely anyone no one knows about this. Yet this whole "Get Licensed" gig is to "protect the public"?  As a Realtor, I laugh every time I hear that.

This thing has too much control/power over the market for it's own good, I remember Redfin winning a case for MLS Data against the Commission, winning point was something about the threat of the Commission being a "Monopoly".

Sorry for the long rant-like post, but It's a shame the States requires that one needs to pay a grand or two in fees a year plus renewal classes to learn nothing, but have the power to move and sell paper.

To Jerome, no that isn't wholesaling as it's being discussed here.

Rehab guy one has the intent to buy, has the ability to buy, in that example he did not solicit the sale of the property or the contract, he was presented with a better business opportunity and may assign his contract to Rehab guy #2.  

Now addressing the opinion, the rant :)

Rendering emergency care and first aid is not considered medical treatment, we have good samaritan laws requiring a passerby to render care.

Practicing law generally is in the representation of another for some benefit or gain, drafting contracts or obtaining affidavits or evidence for a matter for defending or prosecuting someone with respect to some wrong or in a legal proceeding by a government. State laws vary.      Example, some religions have "laws" they hold members to, say at a certain age males must have a beard. One member shaves his beard off, he goes before elders for the offense and another member speaks for him, that speaker is not an attorney nor must he be, the prosecution is not by a government entity in a recognized court of law. 

If you are a party to a transaction you may draft any agreement you are willing to make.

I'm never a party to transactions of others which is why I don't draft contracts, I'm not an attorney. Gurus, mentors or coaches that do provide contracts are getting on thin ice.

There is also no requirement for a teacher giving instruction in law to be an attorney, all business courses in college touch on various aspects of law pertaining to that subject.

Someone ranting their opinion of a law in public is not representing anyone or giving direction and advice may not be taken, there is no client relationship. 

You must have missed the chapter in your real estate class about the social impact in dealing in real property and the obligations to protect the general public. This doesn't mean every agent will be as knowledgeable as others, it means there has been a minimum level of education received by a licensee to deal with the public in real estate matters. 

Licensing is about protecting the public, be it real estate, law, medical practice or your barber! It is to keep idiots from getting into types of transactions or situations where the public may be harmed. 

Not all licensees are Realtors, if you'd like to start your own listing service, be my guest, after you obtain a license you're free to do so. 

Popeye: "It is what it is and it ain't no more!" It's no less either! :) 

[Gregory Beaty]

Well, that was an interesting 22 pages of reading.  Seems a lot more "experts" on both sides of the isle giving their (conflicting) "professional opinions" than anything else. 

Here's where I'm at.  A business partner and I are starting a company now.  To protect us, I got my RE license in the State of Arizona. She is not licensed.  I figured, if I have a license I may or may not be less likely to get us into any trouble.  

Now here's my problem. I obviously have a worthless piece of paper without a licensed Broker right? So I've contacted Brokers.  I'm being told "Sure! I'd love to be your designated Broker, hold your license and support you in all of these deals.  Just so long as you're bringing me a commission check for each property you wholesale."  

Please forgive my ignorance, but, doesn't this kind of defeat the purpose here?  

I have to pay sales tax and capital gains tax on a double closing, plus closing costs, plus a commission to the Broker.  Can anyone tell me I'm seeing this incorrectly and help me get a better idea on this? 

Thanks everyone! 

Greg

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Gregory Beaty  for the reasons you state wholesaling by and large is a waste of time for most folks and why 95% fail... its way hard.. its not that profitable no matter what you do.. your not even factoring in all your direct mail costs .. in my mind unless you can really scale it wholesaling should be far down the list of things to do in Real Estate.

the only reason its so popular is newbies and people that have no money thing this is the way to get started.. simply becasue that is what they are told or read here on BP.

and or any other number of people.  Granted there are some high flyhing wholesalers but they are like any other business they have substantial overhead and really work it.

most folks starting out well just have no chance frankly and will just go out into the sunset.

if everyone who said they wanted to be a wholesaler actually made money doing it.. there would be no property to buy... LOL 

[Account Closed]

@Jay Hinrichs

The Guru's are going to hate you for that last post................even though it is the truth!

[Rob Rice]

I tell you what....

I love good marketing campaigns.......

This is one of the best places to get entertainment, education, and express yourself.....

I love BP.

Great thread guys...

[Account Closed]

Please quit feeding this thread.  It is a waste of time.

[Monique Rene Coates]

Here is some fact to add to the "feed" . . this is FL Statute on RE investing without a license.  RE Schools are teaching it, i.e, against wholesaling: 2015 FL RE Statute and Constitution 475

[Account Closed]

Gee.  Thanks for keeping it going.

How about all of you "whistle blowers" on here devote yourselves to building your own real estate businesses instead of worrying about what everybody else is doing.

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Gee.  Thanks for keeping in going.

How about all of you "whistle blowers" on here devote yourselves to building your own real estate businesses instead of worrying about what everybody else is doing.

Don't worry Rod no one at the Ohio Division of Real Estate is going to look a you, they would have to be proactive and they aren't. And if someone turns you in to the Division, they would have to know what they are looking for and only a couple of investigators I trained would know what they are looking for.

[Account Closed]

@Account Closed

:-D

I'm not, Nick. 

I just sick and tired of people thinking they have the right to tell other people what they should do with their businesses and making themselves the self-appointed investor police.  Like I said, worry about tending their own gardens instead of worrying about how others are tending to theirs.

[Rob Rice]

Well said Rod.  Like I mentioned before........

I love good marketing campaigns..

Someone made out like a fat rat from this thread...

I can't be mad at them...It was an awesome topic to feed the frenzy.

Those who understand the business know its just show...

LOL...................Feed the frenzy!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love it.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Account Closed

:-D

I'm not, Nick. 

I just sick and tired of people thinking they have the right to tell other people what they should do with their businesses and making themselves the self-appointed investor police.  Like I said, worry about tending their own gardens instead of worrying about how others are tending to theirs.

 Rod Lighten up.... your not the thread police... I think much of this is pretty important to folks starting out who think wholesaling is how they will do the natural progression from I have no money and am starting out so " I am now a wholesaler "  LOL... then when I get money doing that I will be a buy and hold  Now I am an " Investor".

this really all boils down to were you live.. in your guys area were you have far more houses than people for them this low end trading of little rental houses can and does  happen no denying that. But folks in many other markets wholesaling is a total waste of time and energy.. so its all ways good to have both points of view so folks can simply not drink the cool aid of one camp and one approach that works in one market but does not work in another  IE reality check of sorts... 

And a lot of people that work this industry run into so many worthless non educated wholesalers that is does get frustrating for industry professionals

[Aimee Sowards-Mounts]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Account Closed

:-D

I'm not, Nick. 

I just sick and tired of people thinking they have the right to tell other people what they should do with their businesses and making themselves the self-appointed investor police.  Like I said, worry about tending their own gardens instead of worrying about how others are tending to theirs.

 Rod Lighten up.... your not the thread police... I think much of this is pretty important to folks starting out who think wholesaling is how they will do the natural progression from I have no money and am starting out so " I am now a wholesaler "  LOL... then when I get money doing that I will be a buy and hold  Now I am an " Investor".

this really all boils down to were you live.. in your guys area were you have far more houses than people for them this low end trading of little rental houses can and does  happen no denying that. But folks in many other markets wholesaling is a total waste of time and energy.. so its all ways good to have both points of view so folks can simply not drink the cool aid of one camp and one approach that works in one market but does not work in another  IE reality check of sorts... 

And a lot of people that work this industry run into so many worthless non educated wholesalers that is does get frustrating for industry professionals

 Well said Jay!

[Brent Coombs]

There IS no stopping this thread. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhahha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah!!!!!! Haaaaaa...

[Account Closed]

@Jay Hinrichs

Jay, you sell some sort of a wholesaler training program, don't you?

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Jay Hinrichs

Jay, you sell some sort of a wholesaler training program, don't you?

 Rod.... how on earth would you think that !!!!

I don't sell any kind of training.. I do fund a lot of flippers that get trained by the hated Guru's and some who get trained on BP... But no I don't sell anything to anyone.

I did hold a BP meet up once at my office and I bought Pizza and drinks for everyone... so I went in the hole on that affair... 

but there are those on this site that do sell training.. and many folks frankly should pay and invest in thier training rather than just reading all us random dudes talking on BP  LOL

[Rob Rice]

Hey lets all blame BRIAN...LOL...

He started the thread, made the most connections, and I'm sure he got some hits for the Tic, Tac, Toe Info on his page that is linked to his signature.....I'm not mad at all...

Way to go BRIAN.....

You are my hero...

[Rob Rice]

Way to plug the Tic, Tac, Toe of the signature Brian..

Very cool...

Also I love the content on that page.  Very well presented, and explained.

I will send some newbies your way.  I think they could really benefit from your information.

[Account Closed]

@Brent Coombs 

:-)

Scotty:  "I can't hold her very much longer Cap'n...she's going to blow any moment!"