Morris Invest Case Study

[Ian E.]

I want to apologize ahead of time for the long post but there are a lot of members asking questions about @Clayton Morris , with Morris Invest ( morrisinvest.com ) and not much information out there. I wanted to provide a case study on my time with the company and hopefully provide an unbiased “face based” documentation of my dealings with the organization.

In early July 2016 I heard about Clayton Morris, through his BiggerPockets Interview, which led me to the Morris Invest Podcast. I had bought a duplex a few months before and while it was a positive experience, traditional bank financing took forever so I decided to use cash for my next purchase. I spent a few weeks on vacation, listening to every Morris Invest podcast and over 30 of the BiggerPockets podcasts and decided I was going to buy another rental house.

When I got home from my vacation I looked on the Morris Invest website and couldn't find an available phone interview with Clayton for almost 3 months. I looked again a few days later and low and behold, a spot had opened up the next day. I immediately schedule the phone consult and impatiently waited.

I didn't end up talking to Clayton but I did get to talk to Dave (Client Specialist). He was courteous and intelligent and walked me through the process. I didn't get pressured to do anything and after our conversation I felt comfortable moving forward. Dave explained that he would send me details on a property and the first to claim the property would have the right to purchase.

The next day,I received a picture of a house in Indianapolis, with a sale price of $20k, projected renovations of $20k and projected rental price of $700 per month. I spent 24 hours trying to conduct my due diligence but by the time I was done, the property had already been sold to someone else. Two days later I received an email for a a $30k duplex with $30k projected rehab cost and projected rents of $1,300. I jumped on this deal and immediately go the house under contract.

The purchase only took a few days and by July 17, the house was mine. I was immediately handed over to Nicole, the Operations Manager, to start the rehab. She explained that 50% of the rehab was due up front, 25% after the crew was complete with half of the rehab, and the final 25% once it was complete. At first, email contact with Nicole happened very quickly, but as the renovations started it took longer and longer to receive a reply. I was able to get a scope of work (after a few requests), paid 50% of the rehab cost and everything seems to be going smoothly.

Aug 19 - I received my first set of pictures of the rehab and things look good. They crew built new kitchens, bathrooms, electrical, and replaced the flooring and new interior paint. I still haven't receive my deed or any official documentation that shows that I own the house other than a contract and purchase agreement. I also payed another 25% to continue the rehab.

Sep 24 - Received my second set of pictures showing the new plumbing and more of the interior. Everything looks good so I ask for some exterior photos and more information on the status of my deed and paperwork and am told the house should be ready in the next few days.

Sep 30 - have still not heard back from Nicole with the final pics of the rehab, status of the paperwork, and if we are ready for tenants.

So far, we have had a few hiccups and communication is getting slower and slower. We are over two months in and I do not know if the house is ready for tenants and I only have email contact information so I am in “wait mode”.

I will keep this forum up to date as I continue through the process so people can use it as a case study for Morris Invest. Please let me know if you have any questions.

[Ian E.]

Just heard that OceanPointe has stopped doing any business and all properties are being handed over to a company called AHI. I didn't receive a notice or anything from OceanPointe was given the information by a Morris Invest liaison.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Ian E.:

Just heard that OceanPointe has stopped doing any business and all properties are being handed over to a company called AHI. I didn't receive a notice or anything from OceanPointe was given the information by a Morris Invest liaison.

 I think its just a name change..

then others have said MOrris himself has opened up his own shop called blue sky or something like that.. still unclear who the brokers are managing this mess. and or who would take on this mess..

[Account Closed]

Please run from Morris Invest and Oceanpoint as fast as you can. I bought two properties from them and it has not ended well, and I am hearing my story is actually pretty common.

[Ian E.]

Update:

I received an email from OP stating that they were trying to fix things with their owners and that they would schedule a conference call a few days later. I replied, to give them the proper phone number and they still called the wrong number, 90 min late, and left a message. The message stated to call them back but their inbox is full and they have not replied to emails.

I received a new automatic invoice stating that both sides of the duplex are in "collections" status but can't get any more information. OP should still have the tenants deposits but I can't even get anyone to fill me in on what is actually happening.

[Jacob Carlson]

I bought a property from Morris Invest back in January of this year. I, like many others was allured by the numbers and podcasts and as a newbie thought it was a great way to kind of get my foot in the door of real estate investing. Boy was I wrong. My rental was supposed to be completed in 90 days and we are well over a month over that and I cannot get an answer from anyone as to what condition the property is in. No updates. I don’t know if it has even been touched since the day I bought it.
I was told to “trust the system and if I can’t handle that then this way of real estate investing isn’t for you.” - this is a system no one should trust... I am fairly certain no rehab has been done on my property or at least is not complete given the facts of what is currently going on in the Indy market with MI. Everything is a mess over there right now and they are unable to help their investors. I was told since we bought the house through “Jax property” (a subsidiary company of Oceanpointe-which we didnt know) its our property and Morris invest never actually sold it to us nor will they accept any responsibility in their failures of business. We went into this believing they had their business model together and could provide what they say they can all over their online videos. That’s far from the truth and so many people are getting screwed because of it.

I have seen 0 returns and do not know what state my property is in.This is not something anyone wants to get wrapped into. I was told by a Morris invest my best course of action is to find property management team myself and have them assess the property. What a JOKE! Morris Invest is something to avoid and they need to answer for all of this. I feel they have misrepresented many things and keep the wool over your eyes the entire process. It is a slimy, unethical and untruthful way to do business. My heart goes out to any other investor that trusted Morris invest with their money.

[Brian Freeman]

@Jacob Carlson sorry you’re in the same boat as most of us. This house of cards appears to now be on the brink of collapse. I expect the lawsuit tidal wave to begin soon. 

[Aram V.]

@Jacob Carlson sorry to hear. Was this in Indiana?

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Brian Freeman:

@Jacob Carlson sorry you’re in the same boat as most of us. This house of cards appears to now be on the brink of collapse. I expect the lawsuit tidal wave to begin soon. 

Mr. Carlson you may want to contact @Colin Zhu on your indy situation.. there is strength in numbers.

Also file a complaint on line with the Indiana AG's office the ONLY way this guy stops is by regulator mandate.. if he had intentions of stopping he would have 2 years ago when all of this was known to Morris.. 

[Michaela G.]

If that was me, I would google and go to different websites and get phone numbers of neighbors. If you can't find numbers, write letters to them. They will know more about what's going on. They'll be able to confirm if someone's lived in the properties or not or if people were there, renovating etc. 

And if you're in a big hurry, find the names of the people next door and call a pizza company and ask, if you can pay for delivery of a pizza to that address with a message inside - asking those people to call you. 

[Aram V.]

@Michaela G. 

"find the names of the people next door and call a pizza company and ask, if you can pay for delivery of a pizza to that address with a message inside - asking those people to call you. "

.. not a bad idea

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Jacob Carlson   @Todd Burton  Todd is a local PM I suspect he will run by the home and give you a professional opinion.. although I like the pizza delivery.. but remember what neighborhoods these are .. I suspect they would eat the pizza and throw the note away.

@Son D.  Son also is a up to speed on this you should contact him

I will say though that the local PM community is not happy with what Morris has done to their market and these guys are stepping up  the best they can.. contact one of them.. pronto.  At least that is what I would do.

[Michaela G.]

@Jay Hinrichs , you'd be amazed how often the mystery of something like that intrigues beyond normal behavior. 

When I was working with unclaimed funds, I used that, as well as custom made fortune cookies various times. 

Once I tried to get a hold of the foreclosure dept in a bank, where you usually can't find out names. I had made out a batch of custom made fortunate cookies, with a weird website name - one that I had bought and at that website address I explained exactly what I was looking for in regards to a particular property that was sort of lost in the shuffle of a bank foreclosure.

I sent a dozen, chocolate covered fortune cookies to the address of that dept overnight and got a call the next day 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Michaela G.:

@Jay Hinrichs , you'd be amazed how often the mystery of something like that intrigues beyond normal behavior. 

When I was working with unclaimed funds, I used that, as well as custom made fortune cookies various times. 

Once I tried to get a hold of the foreclosure dept in a bank, where you usually can't find out names. I had made out a batch of custom made fortunate cookies, with a weird website name - one that I had bought and at that website address I explained exactly what I was looking for in regards to a particular property that was sort of lost in the shuffle of a bank foreclosure.

I sent a dozen, chocolate covered fortune cookies to the address of that dept overnight and got a call the next day 

very creative.. we had a Lexis Nexis account and that pretty much tracked down anyone .

This Morris situation is one for the record books though its amazing he made it this far.. and the only way was the way he set it up in the beginning.. no looking at the property.. then the PM sending rent with fake tenants or subsidizing real tenants. Bottom line I would not want to be sitting in Morris seat right about now.. I know they keep on selling.. and Maybe they are doing a better job.. but I had one investor send me a property they bought in Detroit and sure enough south of 8 mile.. we would not work south of 8 mile way back ion 2002..  Morris model is cheapest houses with rents that look great on paper but are not sustainable make the money then duck.

[Michaela G.]

very creative.. we had a Lexis Nexis account and that pretty much tracked down anyone .

I did as well, but with everyone having cellphones these days, the phone numbers weren't often correct. And getting someone on the phone and actually talking to them was more important than having an address to mail to - that's when I was working with unclaimed funds. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Michaela G.:

very creative.. we had a Lexis Nexis account and that pretty much tracked down anyone .

I did as well, but with everyone having cellphones these days, the phone numbers weren't often correct. And getting someone on the phone and actually talking to them was more important than having an address to mail to - that's when I was working with unclaimed funds. 

 Joe kaiser ring a bell 

[Michaela G.]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

 Joe kaiser ring a bell 

 I took his course, before he had a course, in 2007. Was only weekly internet chat. I started 3 weeks late. Found my own niche - not the one he was trying to steer people towards - and made a lot of money with that. I'm not sure he really wanted everyone to figure it out themselves or whether he wanted people to know half and then partner with him, as that's what he was offering, when others were giving up. Don't know if anyone else made money with it - I did ;-)

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Michaela G.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

 Joe kaiser ring a bell 

 I took his course, before he had a course, in 2007. Was only weekly internet chat. I started 3 weeks late. Found my own niche - not the one he was trying to steer people towards - and made a lot of money with that. I'm not sure he really wanted everyone to figure it out themselves or whether he wanted people to know half and then partner with him, as that's what he was offering, when others were giving up. Don't know if anyone else made money with it - I did ;-)

he was/ is a character and state of WA took him to the wood shed  .. it also changed how overages are done in many areas..

[Michaela G.]

I feel bad about what happened to him. But getting into a public pixxing match with the AG probably exacerbated everything, where neither one could let their ego go.

I did not work with real estate overages...but found another line of unclaimed funds

[Michael Thompson]

Originally posted by @Jacob Carlson:

I bought a property from Morris Invest back in January of this year. I, like many others was allured by the numbers and podcasts and as a newbie thought it was a great way to kind of get my foot in the door of real estate investing. Boy was I wrong. My rental was supposed to be completed in 90 days and we are well over a month over that and I cannot get an answer from anyone as to what condition the property is in. No updates. I don’t know if it has even been touched since the day I bought it.
I was told to “trust the system and if I can’t handle that then this way of real estate investing isn’t for you.” - this is a system no one should trust... I am fairly certain no rehab has been done on my property or at least is not complete given the facts of what is currently going on in the Indy market with MI. Everything is a mess over there right now and they are unable to help their investors. I was told since we bought the house through “Jax property” (a subsidiary company of Oceanpointe-which we didnt know) its our property and Morris invest never actually sold it to us nor will they accept any responsibility in their failures of business. We went into this believing they had their business model together and could provide what they say they can all over their online videos. That’s far from the truth and so many people are getting screwed because of it.

I have seen 0 returns and do not know what state my property is in.This is not something anyone wants to get wrapped into. I was told by a Morris invest my best course of action is to find property management team myself and have them assess the property. What a JOKE! Morris Invest is something to avoid and they need to answer for all of this. I feel they have misrepresented many things and keep the wool over your eyes the entire process. It is a slimy, unethical and untruthful way to do business. My heart goes out to any other investor that trusted Morris invest with their money.

 The purchase agreements I've seen were signed by Clayton Morris on the sellers side.  Was your PA signed by him?

[Brian Freeman]

Originally posted by @Michael Thompson:

Originally posted by @Jacob Carlson:

I bought a property from Morris Invest back in January of this year. I, like many others was allured by the numbers and podcasts and as a newbie thought it was a great way to kind of get my foot in the door of real estate investing. Boy was I wrong. My rental was supposed to be completed in 90 days and we are well over a month over that and I cannot get an answer from anyone as to what condition the property is in. No updates. I don’t know if it has even been touched since the day I bought it.
I was told to “trust the system and if I can’t handle that then this way of real estate investing isn’t for you.” - this is a system no one should trust... I am fairly certain no rehab has been done on my property or at least is not complete given the facts of what is currently going on in the Indy market with MI. Everything is a mess over there right now and they are unable to help their investors. I was told since we bought the house through “Jax property” (a subsidiary company of Oceanpointe-which we didnt know) its our property and Morris invest never actually sold it to us nor will they accept any responsibility in their failures of business. We went into this believing they had their business model together and could provide what they say they can all over their online videos. That’s far from the truth and so many people are getting screwed because of it.

I have seen 0 returns and do not know what state my property is in.This is not something anyone wants to get wrapped into. I was told by a Morris invest my best course of action is to find property management team myself and have them assess the property. What a JOKE! Morris Invest is something to avoid and they need to answer for all of this. I feel they have misrepresented many things and keep the wool over your eyes the entire process. It is a slimy, unethical and untruthful way to do business. My heart goes out to any other investor that trusted Morris invest with their money.

 The purchase agreements I've seen were signed by Clayton Morris on the sellers side.  Was your PA signed by him?

Mine was not. Oceanpointe - Natalie Bastin. 

[Michael Thompson]

Originally posted by @Brian Freeman:

Originally posted by @Michael Thompson:

Originally posted by @Jacob Carlson:

I bought a property from Morris Invest back in January of this year. I, like many others was allured by the numbers and podcasts and as a newbie thought it was a great way to kind of get my foot in the door of real estate investing. Boy was I wrong. My rental was supposed to be completed in 90 days and we are well over a month over that and I cannot get an answer from anyone as to what condition the property is in. No updates. I don’t know if it has even been touched since the day I bought it.
I was told to “trust the system and if I can’t handle that then this way of real estate investing isn’t for you.” - this is a system no one should trust... I am fairly certain no rehab has been done on my property or at least is not complete given the facts of what is currently going on in the Indy market with MI. Everything is a mess over there right now and they are unable to help their investors. I was told since we bought the house through “Jax property” (a subsidiary company of Oceanpointe-which we didnt know) its our property and Morris invest never actually sold it to us nor will they accept any responsibility in their failures of business. We went into this believing they had their business model together and could provide what they say they can all over their online videos. That’s far from the truth and so many people are getting screwed because of it.

I have seen 0 returns and do not know what state my property is in.This is not something anyone wants to get wrapped into. I was told by a Morris invest my best course of action is to find property management team myself and have them assess the property. What a JOKE! Morris Invest is something to avoid and they need to answer for all of this. I feel they have misrepresented many things and keep the wool over your eyes the entire process. It is a slimy, unethical and untruthful way to do business. My heart goes out to any other investor that trusted Morris invest with their money.

 The purchase agreements I've seen were signed by Clayton Morris on the sellers side.  Was your PA signed by him?

Mine was not. Oceanpointe - Natalie Bastin. 

 That’s unfortunate.  I’m not sure how they decided who would be signing but like I have said I’ve seen Clayton Morris signature on the sellers side. 

[Jacob Carlson]

My PA also was signed by Natalie Bastin. So, my next course of action is to try to get information on what state the property I purchased through Morris Invest is at. Thanks @Jay Hinrichs for the recommendation. I am sure that rehab is not complete (if started). Once I see what I am dealing with then I will make a decision... Do I try to sell it for way below the amount I paid for the property itself + Rehab ($46k) and just get out of this mess or do I wait it out and see what comes of all this? I feel like there are many investors in the same boat as me and there is no way we are all just screwed out of our time and money.. at least I would hope not.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Jacob Carlson:

My PA also was signed by Natalie Bastin. So, my next course of action is to try to get information on what state the property I purchased through Morris Invest is at. Thanks @Jay Hinrichs for the recommendation. I am sure that rehab is not complete (if started). Once I see what I am dealing with then I will make a decision... Do I try to sell it for way below the amount I paid for the property itself + Rehab ($46k) and just get out of this mess or do I wait it out and see what comes of all this? I feel like there are many investors in the same boat as me and there is no way we are all just screwed out of our time and money.. at least I would hope not.

you should contact @Colin Zhu  he has a pretty good handle on the group.. and what actions are available..

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Brian Freeman:

Originally posted by @Michael Thompson:

Originally posted by @Jacob Carlson:

I bought a property from Morris Invest back in January of this year. I, like many others was allured by the numbers and podcasts and as a newbie thought it was a great way to kind of get my foot in the door of real estate investing. Boy was I wrong. My rental was supposed to be completed in 90 days and we are well over a month over that and I cannot get an answer from anyone as to what condition the property is in. No updates. I don’t know if it has even been touched since the day I bought it.
I was told to “trust the system and if I can’t handle that then this way of real estate investing isn’t for you.” - this is a system no one should trust... I am fairly certain no rehab has been done on my property or at least is not complete given the facts of what is currently going on in the Indy market with MI. Everything is a mess over there right now and they are unable to help their investors. I was told since we bought the house through “Jax property” (a subsidiary company of Oceanpointe-which we didnt know) its our property and Morris invest never actually sold it to us nor will they accept any responsibility in their failures of business. We went into this believing they had their business model together and could provide what they say they can all over their online videos. That’s far from the truth and so many people are getting screwed because of it.

I have seen 0 returns and do not know what state my property is in.This is not something anyone wants to get wrapped into. I was told by a Morris invest my best course of action is to find property management team myself and have them assess the property. What a JOKE! Morris Invest is something to avoid and they need to answer for all of this. I feel they have misrepresented many things and keep the wool over your eyes the entire process. It is a slimy, unethical and untruthful way to do business. My heart goes out to any other investor that trusted Morris invest with their money.

 The purchase agreements I've seen were signed by Clayton Morris on the sellers side.  Was your PA signed by him?

Mine was not. Oceanpointe - Natalie Bastin. 

Might that be Morris ' s wifes maiden name that is quite common thing to do .  

[Jon Wahlmann]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Might that be Morris ' s wifes maiden name that is quite common thing to do .  

Different person.  Natali Morris' maiden name is Del Conte.