TRULIA CRIME MAP REPLACEMENT

[Rebecca Knox]

What's a good replacement for the Trulia crime map? 

[Jeff Lamothe]

Hello @Rebecca Knox I have been looking around for a good replacement for the Trulia crime map but nothing as efficient.   For the MKE area, SpotCrime.com and MyLocalCrime.com appears to provide good data, but do not provide the heat map that I was accustomed to with Trulia or Realtor.   I have also seen recommendations for NeighborhoodScout.com, which is a subscription based service.    

[Jeff Lamothe]

Also check out CrimeGrade.com.   They do show a crime heat map, but I am having doubts with the accuracy of the data.  

[Jeff Parkin]

Quote from @Jeff Lamothe:

Also check out CrimeGrade.com.   They do show a crime heat map, but I am having doubts with the accuracy of the data.  

 crimegrade.org

And I agree, the jury is still out on crimegrade. I liked Trulia's crime mapping better but maybe I was just more used to it. There were times I questioned the veracity of its data as well. 

[Rebecca Knox]

The Trulia crime map was very accurate for Milwaukee in my opinion---it really depicted pockets well. I'm disappointed that it's gone :(

[Karla Simmons]

@Rebecca Knox

Why did they do away with it?

[Lee Ripma]

Checkout DISCERN reposts on Vestmap.com. They have crime and I find it far better than neighborhood scout. 

[Jeff Lamothe]

Hello @Karla Simmons

The crime heat map was removed because they believed there was potential for bias and discrimination.   This apparently started when Redfin was considering to add crime heat maps but decided against it and encouraged other real estate sites to do away with them as well.    

"[G]iven the long history of redlining and racist housing covenants in the United States there’s too great a risk of this inaccuracy reinforcing racial bias,” Christian Taubman, Redfin’s chief growth officer, wrote in the Dec. 13 post. “We believe that Redfin–and all real estate sites–should not show neighborhood crime data." 

[Karla Simmons]

@Jeff Lamoth

Okay, thank you. It was a useful tool. Looks like there are some other tools out there though.

[Marcus Auerbach]

Neighborhoodscout is good, but also the Milwaukee Police department has a crime map and lots of statistics on their website.

[Bob E.]

Quote from @Jeff Lamothe:

Hello @Karla Simmons

The crime heat map was removed because they believed there was potential for bias and discrimination.   This apparently started when Redfin was considering to add crime heat maps but decided against it and encouraged other real estate sites to do away with them as well.    

"[G]iven the long history of redlining and racist housing covenants in the United States there’s too great a risk of this inaccuracy reinforcing racial bias,” Christian Taubman, Redfin’s chief growth officer, wrote in the Dec. 13 post. “We believe that Redfin–and all real estate sites–should not show neighborhood crime data." 

 How very unfortunate.  Everyone should be able to tell if the neighborhood they are considering moving to is safe or higher risk.  I guess Trulia doesn't think lower income people deserve to live in safe neighborhoods.

[Ed Riggenbach]

The number one thing that beats any map is coming to Milwaukee, driving to neighborhoods, getting out of your car, and walking around the neighborhood you are thinking of investing in. 

[Rebecca Knox]

@Ed Riggenbach true that----It will be interesting to see what happens here. Especially with so many out of state buyers that probably don't understand areas like the Rufus King neighborhood or the east and west side of Holton Street. 

[Ed Riggenbach]

@Rebecca Knox You took the words right out of my mouth. It was only a few years ago that 90% of the out of state investors I talked to were coming to Milwaukee and excited to see what this city has to offer. Now it's less than 50% and it's pretty concerning. Direct quote from a call with someone in New Jersey two weeks ago "Why would I come to Milwaukee? I don't need to live there, I just need the numbers to work" He was looking to invest in 53206 and was shocked that I was the 3rd or 4th PM that said no thank you. If you're not interested in getting to know and being a positive impact on Milwaukee please don't buy here. Your money is no good here. 

[Rebecca Knox]

RE: "If you're not interested in getting to know and being a positive impact on Milwaukee please don't buy here. Your money is no good here."

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff Parkin]

Quote from @Ed Riggenbach:

The number one thing that beats any map is coming to Milwaukee, driving to neighborhoods, getting out of your car, and walking around the neighborhood you are thinking of investing in. 

 "getting out of your car"... in Milwaukee? That's a good one! HAHAHA

[Marcus Auerbach]

@Ed Riggenbach - right on. My team does not work with investors who do not come physically to MIlwaukee to understand neighborhoods. Out of the 1.6 million people in the metro area only a very small percentage is high crime neighborhoods, but those are the low prices that bring OOS investors, who don't seem to be alarmed by the fact that local investors don't want to buy there.

[Ed Riggenbach]

Appreciate the opinion @Jeff Parkin. Hope you're able to find a market to invest in that you feel safe to walk around. If you decide to give Milwaukee a shot, I'd be happy to walk you around and show you all the cool stuff that is happening here as well as some of the areas we have opportunities to improve on.

[Lori Williams]

Quote from @Ed Riggenbach:

 If you're not interested in getting to know and being a positive impact on Milwaukee please don't buy here. Your money is no good here. 

 That is exactly how I feel about out of state investors in Youngstown. Some are OK, but there are far too many who buy distressed, slap some paint on it, and toss a bad tenant into it and suck all the life out of the property and doing nothing to make their neighborhood better (in fact, they often make the neighborhoods worse). They look at the properties as "disposable" bc they can buy in cheap, rehab cheap.

As investors, we should *all* make our properties nicer because it's the right thing to do. But caring about the neighborhood you're buying in and wanting it to appreciate is simply good business, and in high rental communities, if *all* the investors just did that little bit extra, it would make a world of difference in so many ways.

[Rebecca Knox]

@Lori Williams I have out of state investors call me all the time desperate to sell properties that they bought in areas where people literally will steal the aluminum siding off as far as they can reach....but the prices that they paid are ridiculous....it's highway robbery and in all cases, when I saw the properties they were wrecks and the worst part is most of them paid cash so they didn't even have the protection of an appraisal and they're too trusting, believing what the person selling the property to them is telling them without doing their own due diligence. Because many of these OOS investor victims live in higher priced markets such as NY and CA, they're happy they paid $50k when they should've paid $5k.  I think the majority of investors have a desire to improve their communities and help people but there's ethical challenges in any industry. 

[Lori Williams]

@Rebecca Knox

I agree. People need to be ethical and many are not. But I'm talking about investors from some of those high priced states that are buying up multiple properties, doing no real rehab, and putting bad tenants in them. I've seen this happen in the neighborhood I buy in, which is actually not a bad area, it's an old area, in need of updating and rehab. But when an investor comes in and slams the first unemployed crackhead into the property with 500.00 in their pocket bc they are anxious to not have a vacancy, it hurts the values of the other properties, and puts the other residents at some level of risk (I mean, I don't want to live next to a crackhead OR a 500.00 property, do you? Especially if that's not indicative of the rest of the neighborhood).

Those guys make it bad for the ppl who live there AND the other landlords who own there, because they drag down property values and rental values.

I would say anyone buying out of state who can't go visit the properties personally either needs to have their own realtor who will take pictures of every corner, splurge for an inspection, and maybe even an appraisal. It wouldn't hurt to make friends with another investor in the area and pay them to assess it from an investment standpoint. Going on Zillow and seeing what other properties in the direct neighborhood have sold for and rented for is a good idea as well. Even if it's a 10k property - especially if it's a 10k property! - due diligence is sooo important.

[Jason Malabute]

Quote from @Jeff Lamothe:

Hello @Karla Simmons

The crime heat map was removed because they believed there was potential for bias and discrimination.   This apparently started when Redfin was considering to add crime heat maps but decided against it and encouraged other real estate sites to do away with them as well.    

"[G]iven the long history of redlining and racist housing covenants in the United States there’s too great a risk of this inaccuracy reinforcing racial bias,” Christian Taubman, Redfin’s chief growth officer, wrote in the Dec. 13 post. “We believe that Redfin–and all real estate sites–should not show neighborhood crime data." 

 SMH  at trulia

[Bob E.]

I hear people from Milwaukee saying you have to walk the neighborhood.  I get that to a point but it's not always  practical.  We have close to a dozen properties in MKE now and and have looked at a LOT of properties online and in person.  There are some areas that look good but have higher crime.  At some point hard data becomes a BS check.  If those OOS investors that got sold a "deal" in high crime ares looked at data they might have made a different decision.  

As an OOS investor myself I have been to MKE plenty of times but I would not trust my memory to a a visual look around to judge a neighborhood.  Some areas change dramatically at night or on weekends, even weather can have a big impact on what you see on any given day.  You need real data to avoid problem areas, even neighborhoods we like have some rough edges where I will see something in the general area we like and a quick check of the crime map says NO.

[Rebecca Knox]

Quote from @Bob E.:

I hear people from Milwaukee saying you have to walk the neighborhood.  I get that to a point but it's not always  practical.  We have close to a dozen properties in MKE now and and have looked at a LOT of properties online and in person.  There are some areas that look good but have higher crime.  At some point hard data becomes a BS check.  If those OOS investors that got sold a "deal" in high crime ares looked at data they might have made a different decision.  

As an OOS investor myself I have been to MKE plenty of times but I would not trust my memory to a a visual look around to judge a neighborhood.  Some areas change dramatically at night or on weekends, even weather can have a big impact on what you see on any given day.  You need real data to avoid problem areas, even neighborhoods we like have some rough edges where I will see something in the general area we like and a quick check of the crime map says NO.

 Oh believe me, I think the out of state investor in those scenarios are mostly to blame for not doing their own research and relying on hopes and what someone else is telling them rather than their own education and verification.  

In my opinion, the TRULIA map was so accurate....you could even tell when the City was targeting improvement for certain neighborhoods because you'd see the map colors start shifting. 

[Rodney Sums]

Quote from @Ed Riggenbach:

The number one thing that beats any map is coming to Milwaukee, driving to neighborhoods, getting out of your car, and walking around the neighborhood you are thinking of investing in. 

Walking the neighborhood is certainly important.  A significant challenge is  that car jackings, domestic violence, and other unspeakable assaults aren't likely to happen while out on a stroll.  This is where crime statistics and feedback from people (especially PMs and realtors) who live in or are very familiar with the area come in and are number one. 

...Not to mention in today's market the home a buyer is interested in is likely under contract before they get to baggage claim LOL. 

[Rodney Sums]

Quote from @Bob E.:

Quote from @Jeff Lamothe:

Hello @Karla Simmons

The crime heat map was removed because they believed there was potential for bias and discrimination.   This apparently started when Redfin was considering to add crime heat maps but decided against it and encouraged other real estate sites to do away with them as well.    

"[G]iven the long history of redlining and racist housing covenants in the United States there’s too great a risk of this inaccuracy reinforcing racial bias,” Christian Taubman, Redfin’s chief growth officer, wrote in the Dec. 13 post. “We believe that Redfin–and all real estate sites–should not show neighborhood crime data." 

 How very unfortunate.  Everyone should be able to tell if the neighborhood they are considering moving to is safe or higher risk.  I guess Trulia doesn't think lower income people deserve to live in safe neighborhoods.

 I believe the issue wasn't that lower income people don't deserve safe neighborhoods.  Due to this country's history, those crime heat maps often reflect neighborhoods of low income people with a higher concentration of minorities.  I certainly valued the crime maps however I can appreciate how this can be seen as indirectly oppressive to the communities of certain ethnic groups and income classes when a heat map turns people away from buying.