Tax Overages

[Andre Johnson]

Anyone know if this tax Overages program with Rick Dawson and Bob Diamond is for real or legit?  Thinking about adding this to my portfolio just want to make sure i'm not being scammed with this.

Thanks

Andre

[David Davila]

Just curious if @Sandra Lee and @Brian Watkins got any further with this?

[Wayne Brooks]

@Sandra Lee Any luck?

[David Krulac]

@Steve Babiak 

Tax overages are easier said than done.  At a recent tax sale where there were 2,500 properties on the published list 30 days before the sale, there were 4 overages.  The county will pay off debts against the property in a specific sequence.  State and municipal obligations go to the head of the list, after the real estate taxes owed.  Then comes mortgages, judgments, and other liens in order of date recorded.  And of course there is always the possibility of an IRS lien.

After all that if there is any money left it goes to the former owner at their last know address.  More than half have correct addresses on file, or forwarding addresses.  Then if nobody claims the overage it goes to the county after 3 years.  Of the 4 with overages noted above, 3 had correct addresses and the one remaining was located by the tax sale purchaser and got the money in exchange for a Quit Claim Deed.  So in this county which is a large county with 2,500 no excess fund were left and no potential for an overage fees.

If you pursue this, it might be best to look at past year funds after the dust has settled and former owners haven't come forward or be located by purchasers.

All of the above applies in PA, where there is no redemption rights and no possibility of getting the property through overages.

@Jay Hinrichs 

It used to be easier to do when I started.  The Post Office and the DMV were very helpful in locating former owners or heirs.  But laws and regulations have changed with anti-stalking efforts which have made "heir hunting" all that more difficult.  Its helpful if you have an uncommon name that you are searching, but common names are almost impossible.  Sometimes we have spent a year or more searching for one specific person.  In one case the party I was seeking had an uncommon surname, so I wrote letters or called everybody in the country with that name.  None were the party I was looking for, but one was a relative, who gave my info to the party I was seeking and they did call me.  You can't do that with Smith or Jones! 

[Jay Hinrichs]

@David Krulac 

  Lexus Nexus will give you names of relatives that is how you find these folks as you describe.. But even with this its tough.

And those that I have seen that made this work,, usually worked rural area's where the overages were primarily on LAND that was free and clear and low tax base. But had value so it got overbid pretty high.. in CA.. it would be  San Berdo  Riverside LA  Lake, Alturas  etc etc. For get SF  San Mateo Santa Clara Alamdea etc.. you need counties with thousands upon thousands of un built on legal parcels of record.  And thing with a home on it usually gets cured before the sale.. at least from my personal experoince.

[Patti Royster]

OK so bottom line question - is there anybody out there who has made any money on overages???

thanks for your help and input!

[David Krulac]

@Patti Royster

We use the overages to pay current tax bills, often times only the delinquent tax bills are paid.  We use the overages to pay debts against the property that are not recorded.  The recorded debts are automatically paid in order of recording, with obligations of the Federal and state government at the top of list followed by municipal claims.

But state inheritance taxes, nursing home, welfare liens, and Medicare are often not recorded.  We through our due diligence make sure that the county is apprise of these unrecorded debts so that they can be paid out of the overages.  so we are not getting the overages, but making sure they are totally applied to debts on the property, so we don't have to pay those debts.

Then if there is money left over, an overage we make sure that the former owner is aware of that overage and use that info as a carrot fro the former owner to sign a deed for the property to clear any potential title cloud. 

[Rick H.]

Originally posted by @Patti Royster:

OK so bottom line question - is there anybody out there who has made any money on overages???

thanks for your help and input!

 Yes. I can show you two checks totally about $125,000 in orofits from several years ago.

I'm currently waiting for LA County tax sale overage check well in excess of $100K from a deceased owner that I'm probating. Horribly slow county staff as this is from the Dec 2012 sale. Sadly, i only exoect to make about $7,000 due to offsetting creditor claims to State. 

From OP who inquired about the Rick Dawson course, i met Rick Dawson at a Joe Kaiser didn't some years ago and purchased a Jack Bosch course thru Rick. Stuff seemed solid. I was looking for any nuanced letters and alternative documentation. 

In all, worth the money. Of course, many people buy stuff that they never implement. Anyone can sell you a rowboat and a pair of oars, but you've still got to do the rowing.

[Lynn Poirier]

I have taken a great deal of training in Real Estate. Bob Diamond's Overages program is the best. I bought the program as well as went to Vegas training came back and did 3 deals at 35% on each. There are so many deals out there. Just get it and DO THE PROGRAM. The best to you and your Overages

[Kevin Vasquez]

Hello guys,

So, in reading this I am excited and am down for any work that I need to put down- that is, I'm willing to work my butt off in making good money on the side while I help my father's small family business grow. Not to mention, actually helping people, something I'm definitely concerned with and am for. I  am glad to hear about this at the age of 19!

Question(s): Should I get into this stuff once I have the money to purchase the Bob Diamond course? Am I too young? Do I have to have certain things in order to start?

Thanks in advance guys,

Kevin

[David Krulac]

you don't need a course to track down overages and clients owed money.

[John Morgan]

Originally posted by @Sandra Lee:

What you all are saying is true. But we are not really looking at this from the the same angle. Yes, full disclosures are a must but there are also step to ensure you get paid for your efforts. Also I don't need to be a PI to find people (lol). Anyhow, if I listened to everyone who told me it can't be done... I would rather try and fail than not try at all. Bob Diamond did many other things with overages and his problems are not what i am looking to get into! I am not scamming or looking to take advantage of anyone. I plan on preforming a service and getting paid for it. All while staying within the boundaries of the law.

just got my business line set up and by weekend will have my first 25 prospects to try and find. If i am able to process 2-3 out of those i will be ok with those stats every week.  

 Thank you for some positive attitude here. I really like your "let's give this a real try" approach. Keep it up. Nothing in life worthwhile is easy. I started 2 businesses that friends and family said they would never work. but after several years of hard work and persistence I ended up selling both of them for 7 figures. 

Do your homework, know what you are up against,  stay persistent, find out from others with experience the obstacles and and don't let the speed bumps slow you down.

I am also going to give this tax overage business a try also and would like to keep in touch here on this forum to share info on what techniques I am finding that are working and those that are not working. With hard work, dedication and persistence you will find a way to success. So what if it's not easy, keep going!

[Debra S.]

I tried the overages. The names were leftovers of people that couldn't be found or they were dead.

[Natasha Wade]

Originally posted by @Lynn Poirier:

I have taken a great deal of training in Real Estate. Bob Diamond's Overages program is the best. I bought the program as well as went to Vegas training came back and did 3 deals at 35% on each. There are so many deals out there. Just get it and DO THE PROGRAM. The best to you and your Overages

 I have a question. The check gets cut in the name of the person it belongs to. How are you able to take that check to YOUR bank and cash it? Banks will not allow you to consistently bring in checks made out to other people. What is the process here.  I would like to buy his course but that has stumped me. 

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Natasha Wade:

Originally posted by @Lynn Poirier:

I have taken a great deal of training in Real Estate. Bob Diamond's Overages program is the best. I bought the program as well as went to Vegas training came back and did 3 deals at 35% on each. There are so many deals out there. Just get it and DO THE PROGRAM. The best to you and your Overages

 I have a question. The check gets cut in the name of the person it belongs to. How are you able to take that check to YOUR bank and cash it? Banks will not allow you to consistently bring in checks made out to other people. What is the process here.  I would like to buy his course but that has stumped me. 

 I think this info is not accurate for all areas.  In CA you have to apply for the proceeds, which they don't disburse until a year after the sale.  So if you have an assignment from an owner, the proceeds check would be made out to you, as the applicant, when it is disbursed.  Assuming the tax collector accepts all your paperwork.  I don't know of any tax collector just sending out overage checks after the sale, to the last known address.  That would be weird and wasteful.  Does that happen in NY?  Seems more likely that unclaimed proceeds become part of the state's unclaimed funds, and/or they eventually escheat to the state.

[Natasha Wade]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Originally posted by @Natasha Wade:

Originally posted by @Lynn Poirier:

I have taken a great deal of training in Real Estate. Bob Diamond's Overages program is the best. I bought the program as well as went to Vegas training came back and did 3 deals at 35% on each. There are so many deals out there. Just get it and DO THE PROGRAM. The best to you and your Overages

 I have a question. The check gets cut in the name of the person it belongs to. How are you able to take that check to YOUR bank and cash it? Banks will not allow you to consistently bring in checks made out to other people. What is the process here.  I would like to buy his course but that has stumped me. 

 I think this info is not accurate for all areas.  In CA you have to apply for the proceeds, which they don't disburse until a year after the sale.  So if you have an assignment from an owner, the proceeds check would be made out to you, as the applicant, when it is disbursed.  Assuming the tax collector accepts all your paperwork.  I don't know of any tax collector just sending out overage checks after the sale, to the last known address.  That would be weird and wasteful.  Does that happen in NY?  Seems more likely that unclaimed proceeds become part of the state's unclaimed funds, and/or they eventually escheat to the state.

Yes I am aware the check is not cut right after. That would be only if I am the last deed owner and all other liens and mortgages were paid off. I just saw the webinar of Bob Diamond, and the checks he showed was made out to the person who it belonged to. He also gave an example of one of his students receiving the check in HIS mail box and he had to deposit it into the bank I assumed he would take his cut out. I am just not sure how the process works and ensuring I would get paid. I can only think of having an attorney file the claim and disburse the funds accordingly. I do not see any bank allowing you to deposit a check made out to someone else, multiple times. But if you had POA maybe that would work.

[Account Closed]

I am skeptical of checks used by REI educators in their promotional material. There's just way more to a profitable deal than proceeds checks. I can only speak for California, which is only 10% of the nation, but nobody here is getting a check from the tax collector made out to the last owner of record, unless the last owner or their estate applied for the proceeds. And that application has to be signed and notarized. If you are an assignee you have to correctly prepared assignments and identification plus at the signed and notarized disclosures from the last owner of record. Doesn't the fact that at least 10% of nation (CA) has tax sale overage rules that are state specific make potential course buyers kind of concerned? That the information won't apply to their state? What does Mr. Diamond say about overages in CA? Does he just wow everyone with ease of the profits and skip over how state specific tax sale overages are?

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Account Closed

  I think the risk in this model.. is exactly what happened to my 80 YO mother.. she gets a letter form a company in CA.. informing her of tax overages in a county.

Well we had subdivisions in 4 CA counties so we narrowed that down.. A simple call to the tax collector and I secured the refund for my mom and thanked the investor for letting us know.. but in no way was going to give them half... it was quite a bit of money.. So others doing this will run into the same thing family helps the person and they get cut out

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Account Closed

  I think the risk in this model.. is exactly what happened to my 80 YO mother.. she gets a letter form a company in CA.. informing her of tax overages in a county.

Well we had subdivisions in 4 CA counties so we narrowed that down.. A simple call to the tax collector and I secured the refund for my mom and thanked the investor for letting us know.. but in no way was going to give them half... it was quite a bit of money.. So others doing this will run into the same thing family helps the person and they get cut out

If someone is willing to give away half the excess proceeds to the finder, the county requires that they sign and have notarized a doc that says the owner knows the true refund amount and that it is not necessary to use finder or 3rd party to file a claim.  Only the most unsophisticated of sellers or owners would sign that. I'm in agreement with the CA tax collectors on this.  If someone wants to assign or sell their interest in the overage, no problem.  The full disclosure requirement is a good thing IMO.  There are some complicated estate situations with multiple heirs requiring probates and I understand how an heir would be willing to sell their interest in the overage at a steep discount.....since they will see nothing unless they have capital and legal help.  But calling around to people like your Mom who were in line for proceeds?  Sounds so not fun.

[Chris M.]

Hello, 

 I am an investor in California and focus on tax deed sales. I just added overages to my list and came across a really sweet deal and need some guidance. Here's the scenario:

A house was auctioned in a tax deed sale (California).... I did research and found out that the owners on the deed at time of sale (husband and wife) had both passed away several years ago. I was able to track down one of the heirs (they had several children but i was only able to find one, not sure if this matters?). I spoke with her about the situation and she was more then happy to let me help her get any overages for a fee. SO, I have everything set ready to go, the disclosures, service agreement, and inheritance expectancy agreement. Now my question is will this be all I need to get the funds released? @Rick H.  Will the county require probate docs (this was never done when the owners died) ? Will the other heirs (children) need to get a cut of the money? Thanks in advance.

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Chris M.:

Hello, 

 I am an investor in California and focus on tax deed sales. I just added overages to my list and came across a really sweet deal and need some guidance. Here's the scenario:

A house was auctioned in a tax deed sale (California).... I did research and found out that the owners on the deed at time of sale (husband and wife) had both passed away several years ago. I was able to track down one of the heirs (they had several children but i was only able to find one, not sure if this matters?). I spoke with her about the situation and she was more then happy to let me help her get any overages for a fee. SO, I have everything set ready to go, the disclosures, service agreement, and inheritance expectancy agreement. Now my question is will this be all I need to get the funds released? @Rick H.  Will the county require probate docs (this was never done when the owners died) ? Will the other heirs (children) need to get a cut of the money? Thanks in advance.

The county won't distribute proceeds to an estate or heirs (or assignees) of an estate without a court order transferring the property.  Or unless an applicant with court ordered powers applies on the estate's behalf.  Any chance the property is held in a trust?  If not, you are looking at a probate action.  The good news is that probating an estate with only personal property (overages) can be easier than one that includes real property.  The bad news is that it's still probate.

If you decide to work or make a deal with the heirs, be mindful of what you are doing. I would make no suggestion of "helping" nor would I give them the idea that you are applying on the estate's behalf.  Buy what they own:  their interest in the estate.   

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Chris M.:

Hello, 

I was able to track down one of the heirs (they had several children but i was only able to find one, not sure if this matters?). 

Of course it matters how many heirs there are.  There's no race to get to the estate assets first..  Property of decedents goes to all rightful heirs per CA law.  That's what probate code and court is for:  to serve heirs.  Read the code.  You have to make an effort to find all possible lawful heirs.  

[Chris M.]

@K. marie P.

No it its not in a trust. so we would need to do a probate? I'm assuming this could take some time and become complicated which might make us miss the deadline to file for the overage? So my best bet would be to buy the interest that the heir has in the overage and do a probate myself? How does that work? If one of the heirs agrees to that and she has 3 other siblings, am I only buying 25% interest in the overage ?

[Account Closed]

@Rick H. Is this a 13100 affidavit situation? If so, can you make a tax overage claim as a partial interest?

[Rick H.]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Rick H. Is this a 13100 affidavit situation? If so, can you make a tax overage claim as a partial interest?

 You can claim anything you want, however, what it all boils down to will be some guy or gal who feels overworked that makes the call based on their assessment of the situation.

I have one going in LA county right now where I only have one if the heirs signed up. I always use an attorney, too. This gives my claims the air of credibility. 

The county has been putting me off for 3 years. I finally got appointed as administrator with a full probate powers and they still balk. I may have to sue however the big joke us on me because Medi-Cal has put in claims exceeding my $170,000+ Surplus claim. 

You can try anything, however the issue with a 13100 Affidavit is that: 

1) Medi-Cal must still be noticed!

2) Cash or reall estate, if DoD value over $150,000 you still need to probate.

The thought thing is to find a way to be a secured creditor such as mortgage lender of record prior to the tax sale.

Btw, I spend all day today with my friend David who lives near you right by the mission. Would have called but hey, learn so much from hanging with my friend!

[Chris M.]

Originally posted by @Rick H.:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Rick H. Is this a 13100 affidavit situation? If so, can you make a tax overage claim as a partial interest?

 You can claim anything you want, however, what it all boils down to will be some guy or gal who feels overworked that makes the call based on their assessment of the situation.

I have one going in LA county right now where I only have one if the heirs signed up. I always use an attorney, too. This gives my claims the air of credibility. 

The county has been putting me off for 3 years. I finally got appointed as administrator with a full probate powers and they still balk. I may have to sue however the big joke us on me because Medi-Cal has put in claims exceeding my $170,000+ Surplus claim. 

You can try anything, however the issue with a 13100 Affidavit is that: 

1) Medi-Cal must still be noticed!

2) Cash or reall estate, if DoD value over $150,000 you still need to probate.

The thought thing is to find a way to be a secured creditor such as mortgage lender of record prior to the tax sale.

Btw, I spend all day today with my friend David who lives near you right by the mission. Would have called but hey, learn so much from hanging with my friend!

@Rick Harmon

The personal property (the overage) of the estate is over the 150K limit to do a 13100 affidavit, unless we can argue that at the time of death the property was worth under 150k because of the condition it was in?  So it looks like I will have to do a probate? What do I need to get started on this ? can I do it myself or do I need the heir to initiate this? Is it wise to buy out any of the heirs I can now or should I stick with the assignment and contingency fee method? What's my best strategy here, in your opinion?

BTW Thanks for the help @Rick Harmon and @K. marie P.