Re-titling from personal to LLC, who's done it?

Question

I chatted with someone who talked about how they moved the title from them to their LLC, and while reading about some of the options, I was curious if anyone here has done it. I looked at the warranty deed vs quitclaim deed and it seems like if you're transferring it to your own LLC, that the quitclaim seems to be the way to go. I checked out the MN forms for transferring, it and seems like the 10.3.2 number is the way to go for moving it from personal to your LLC.

I'd want to wait until I've had my property for a year before looking to move forward with it, but I was curious if anyone in MN has actually done the process before successfully.

John Woodrich · Answer

What everyone mentions above is correct.  To start off, if your goal is to fix your DTI ratio this won't help at all.  Your rental income should offset this and if your lender doesn't understand how rental income works and DTI you definitly should be getting a new member on your team.  @Tim Swierczek is a financing expert who also invests a lot in RE - if you are looking at financing you should talk to him.  As mentioned the only way to remove it from your personal record is to get a loan that is not personal - in other words a portfolio loan.  Tim can help look at those options also.

To the question asked - there is a due on sale clause mentioned that could call your note however through all the red tape it seems that this rarely happens.  After dealing with the recorder's office on several occasions I have come to the conclusion that they will pretty much record anything if you pay the proper fees and if the legal description is close.  That is why we have attorneys like Tim Joyce who can examine your title and why people by title insurance, to protect against title flaws.

Joe Splitrock · Answer

@Kelly Conrad moving the property into an LLC has nothing to do with your credit. The loan stays in your personal name and so does the liability that is affecting your DTI.

The asset protection here is weak at best. Even if you put the property in your LLC, a quick search will reveal the loan for the property is in your personal name. They can pierce the protection by claiming this is in fact personally owned and that the LLC was just an attempt to shield liability.

A better approach:

1. Avoid liability in the first place, by enforcing policies and maintaining a safe property.

2. Purchase a blanket liability policy to cover you if you are sued. The insurance company will defend you to avoid payout. The insurance company has deeper pockets, so that is easy money for the attorney.

3. On a more basic level, why worry about protecting something you don't own. I assume you have a loan and borrowed 80% or more of the property value. The bank owns it, the attorney can't take it from the bank. Leveraged properties are not of value.

One final consideration is you said the bank won't call the loan as long as you are making the payment. I have heard other investors state they have had the bank invoke the due on sale clause. So it can happen. Maybe it is low probability. My point is don't be 100% sure you can do something that your mortgage contract says you can't do. You may have a false sense of security by listening to others. If your loan is called, it is YOU that needs to deal with it, not others that gave you bad advice.

Good luck.

Tim Joyce · Answer

Thanks for the shoutout @Tim Swierczek. Not sure I can find the post just now, but the high points are already identified here for the most part.

From legal standpoint, having property in a company offers some protection from outside, non-real estate-related lawsuit judgments (think a person injured when you drive intoxicated, when your auto insurance isn't enough and they start hunting for other assets). Good property insurance can offer protection from injuries related to your rental property, regardless of the owner on title.

Since the due on sale clause can have such catastrophic effects on a borrower if enforced, we just never feel comfortable advising clients to pursue that course. That said, 2 of 3 of recent clients decided to risk it anyways.

I am not versed in the laws around consumer credit reporting, but something about the plan raises red flags for me. If the person giving the advice about freeing up credit-space for future lending wasn't themselves a lender, I would personally feel very apprehensive about it. Just my two cents on that point.

Tim Swierczek · Answer

@Kelly Conrad the mechanics of transferring the name is easy.  I don't understand why you would wait one year?  What is the significance, from what I understand you do not live in the property and never have so why?  If you want it to ensure it is done correctly then you can have your title company do it for a small fee, it's easy and not that expensive so I would recommend that.  I think the main question is what is your motivation for changing it?  I have posted on this multiple times, but there are negatives to owning a rental in an LLC and they may outweigh the positives provided you have proper insurance including an umbrella policy.  A month or so ago there was an excellent discussion on the topic by @Tim Joyce and @John Woodrich maybe one of them can link the post here.

Genna Golden · Answer

I'm having a similar issue. I have a duplex rental property purchased in my and my husband's name. I then put the property into an LLC. An attorney told me that since it is deeded to us personally, which yes, can be found by quick city records search, the protections of the LLC will not apply to us. Are you saying @joesplitrock, @Tim Swierczek @John woodrich  that if I can get my lender to retitle the property then I will be operating it legitimately as an LLC?

Contrarily, it seems I could get liability protection from keeping it in our own name and maintaining our personal 2M umbrella policy?

I have made inquiries to several sources regarding the due on sale clause. Most, including attorneys, say don't worry about it.  Pay your bills and most have never seen it called. However, the clause is there and so yes, it is an important personal decision.

John Woodrich · Answer

@joesplitrock I disagree with the protection being weak at best.  Once setup properly it does a good job limiting whomever comes after you.  The problem with LLCs is most people don't operate them like a business but I haven't heard of anyone losing LLC protection in a RE transaction.  Please share if you have.

Tim Swierczek · Answer

@Kelly Conrad the amount the debt affects you is dependant on the % of maxed out you are, which is also called your "Use Rate."  Here is a very simple video about it https://youtu.be/biKWfnA043o

One tip, would be rather than save rent in a bank account use the rent to pay down your HELOC and then if you have a large expense you can always use the HELOC to pay the debt.   This will help improve your score over time.

Kelly Conrad · Answer

Thanks @John Woodrich & @Tim Joyce for your responses! Looks like this wouldn't help me accomplish what I was hoping.

@Tim Swierczek I appreciate the insight! My biggest thing was the DTI, but sounds like any lender would see what's going on and not hold that against me? Just sucks that my credit takes such a huge hit...but I suppose that doesn't really matter unless I'm talking to someone that I need a loan from, and then I'd be able to explain it.

Re-titling from personal to LLC, who's done it?

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