American Homeowner Preservation (AHP) Fund

[Mark S.]

I stumbled across the American Homeowner Preservation (AHP) Fund ad on a podcast.  Upon going to their website and researching further, it appears it's a hedge fund that buys discounted mortgages and supposedly tries to let homeowner's stay in their homes (and obviously make a profit) in doing so.  This is now open to non-accredited investors (as well as accredited) for as little as $100.  They keep any profits above 12% and it appears they charge about a 2% fee plus a couple other nonsense items (based on my very brief skimming through some info).  Anyone familiar with AHP?  Thoughts?

[Jorge Newbery]

This is Jorge Newbery from AHP and I just received a Google Alert bringing me to this thread. Some quick updates: 

1. We are planning our next investment update webinar for Tuesday, January 23rd at 1pm CT. If you are an AHP investors, expect an invite soon. Counsel handling the litigation which was discussed in December will be joining.  

2. We filed a lawsuit in federal court in Illinois last week. We will be sharing a link to the filing with the webinar invite. This suit pertains to our Illinois assets. We are now working on similar filings in other states. 

3. We are down to four people, including me. We may be slow to respond to individual inquiries, as we are trying to disseminate information in bulk to all investors.

4. Tax returns were filed timely for 2022 and all investors received K1s.

5. Our 2022 audits are 90% complete. We just need to pay the auditors to finalize and release. We have been very tight on cash. 

This has been a very challenging period. I am doing everything I can to resolve what has occurred and do not want any investor to lose on their AHP investment. I appreciate everyone's patience and support. 

[Jason Monaco]

Quote from @Sam Wilson:

We invested via a retirement account. The K1 was irrelevant...was. As of now, we have zero documents in the portal. EVER. Not sure where they went.

I saw what they were doing as bulletproof- as in- buying notes for pennies on the dollar, working out most of them for massive discounts to borrowers and splitting the returns with investors. 

What can go wrong? A lot obviously. The devaluing of those notes by fixing the interest so low seems to be the real kicker that made the fund's intrinsic value decline, performing or not no one wants them on the secondary market. Sound right?

 Sam the same thing happened to me...I logged into the portal to see my subscription agreement with AHP Servicing and it is gone. I could of sworn it was there. The only documents I have there are the prior years K-1's I have been signed up since May 2020 and all my documents are gone. I tried all day yesterday to contact someone over there through email and phone and got nothing...

[James Mc Ree]

I am guessing there is still a large part of this story that is still missing. AHP claimed their lender just took their notes and sold or reallocated them for their own benefit. That may be true; however, we haven't heard the lender's side of the story. My guess is the lender had a claim against AHP to satisfy and that is how they did it, but that is just a guess.

I have 2 other investments with the same firm that were facing this zombie investment status where they might be dead, but aren't dead yet. The firm tried to give investors hope they might recover something in restructuring an investment, but the timeframe was years out and it would be a tiny recovery. It was a great disservice to the investors as we couldn't claim the loss. They fixed that mistake with the 2nd investment and declared it lost.

It doesn't sound like AHP is declaring it lost yet. It looks like they are setting our expectations for a couple years of litigation.

[James Mc Ree]

@Jorge Newbery Thank you for the update, Jorge.

Has the lender who AHP claims took its assets filed any claims against AHP? Can you share their name here, please?

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Sam Wilson:

We invested via a retirement account. The K1 was irrelevant...was. As of now, we have zero documents in the portal. EVER. Not sure where they went.

I saw what they were doing as bulletproof- as in- buying notes for pennies on the dollar, working out most of them for massive discounts to borrowers and splitting the returns with investors. 

What can go wrong? A lot obviously. The devaluing of those notes by fixing the interest so low seems to be the real kicker that made the fund's intrinsic value decline, performing or not no one wants them on the secondary market. Sound right?

its not the notes per se its the assets securing them.. this model has been tried many times and it fails most every time.. The big players dont want junk real estate that these notes  are attached to. The reason is over a course of time the vast majority will never payoff and the fund will have to foreclose and take possession which cost a boat load of money .. And then to get money out of them you have to put money into them.. IE securing them paying tax's insurance etc etc.  I believe this is the issue at hand its the collateral.

when you look at NPN pricing you will see this.. high priced markets like west coast pricing might be 75 to 95% of note value.. Low value markets might be Pennies on the dollar like you allude to. The collateral matters.

[Sam Wilson]

@Jorge Newbery thank you for the reply. I'll look for the webinar.

[Chad U.]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Sam Wilson:

We invested via a retirement account. The K1 was irrelevant...was. As of now, we have zero documents in the portal. EVER. Not sure where they went.

I saw what they were doing as bulletproof- as in- buying notes for pennies on the dollar, working out most of them for massive discounts to borrowers and splitting the returns with investors. 

What can go wrong? A lot obviously. The devaluing of those notes by fixing the interest so low seems to be the real kicker that made the fund's intrinsic value decline, performing or not no one wants them on the secondary market. Sound right?

its not the notes per se its the assets securing them.. this model has been tried many times and it fails most every time.. The big players dont want junk real estate that these notes  are attached to. The reason is over a course of time the vast majority will never payoff and the fund will have to foreclose and take possession which cost a boat load of money .. And then to get money out of them you have to put money into them.. IE securing them paying tax's insurance etc etc.  I believe this is the issue at hand its the collateral.

when you look at NPN pricing you will see this.. high priced markets like west coast pricing might be 75 to 95% of note value.. Low value markets might be Pennies on the dollar like you allude to. The collateral matters.

Jay, I only wish pricing was that low.  That pricing is years gone by.  Most sellers are looking for 70-90% of the legal payoff nowadays no matter where the property is located, which in many cases is well above the unpaid balance.  At the end of the day there isn't much left to recoup as the new loan holder.  

[Andrew Frishman]

@Jorge Newbery I have been investing with AHP for 4 years.   I have been requesting my capital back since 07/23.  

Do you have a rough timeline of when I will potentially get some or all of my initial capital returned?

Below the only response I received from your office via email:

Hi Andrew,

I believe depending on the recovery of assets, worst case you may receive a portion of the initial investment. It is too early on in the stages to plan for this though, as Jorge still expects a full recovery.

Jorge hasn’t started the monthly distributions yet to investors, but it would be all or none when he does.

I look forward to hearing from you.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Chad U.:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Sam Wilson:

We invested via a retirement account. The K1 was irrelevant...was. As of now, we have zero documents in the portal. EVER. Not sure where they went.

I saw what they were doing as bulletproof- as in- buying notes for pennies on the dollar, working out most of them for massive discounts to borrowers and splitting the returns with investors. 

What can go wrong? A lot obviously. The devaluing of those notes by fixing the interest so low seems to be the real kicker that made the fund's intrinsic value decline, performing or not no one wants them on the secondary market. Sound right?

its not the notes per se its the assets securing them.. this model has been tried many times and it fails most every time.. The big players dont want junk real estate that these notes  are attached to. The reason is over a course of time the vast majority will never payoff and the fund will have to foreclose and take possession which cost a boat load of money .. And then to get money out of them you have to put money into them.. IE securing them paying tax's insurance etc etc.  I believe this is the issue at hand its the collateral.

when you look at NPN pricing you will see this.. high priced markets like west coast pricing might be 75 to 95% of note value.. Low value markets might be Pennies on the dollar like you allude to. The collateral matters.

Jay, I only wish pricing was that low.  That pricing is years gone by.  Most sellers are looking for 70-90% of the legal payoff nowadays no matter where the property is located, which in many cases is well above the unpaid balance.  At the end of the day there isn't much left to recoup as the new loan holder.  

when i do seller carrybacks I get hammered by yellow letters soliciting the purchase of my notes. we just sold one and the buyer got a 22% apr..  still a 50% apr for us even with that discount but we are not long term holders

[James Hammett]

Quote from @Jorge Newbery:

This is Jorge Newbery from AHP and I just received a Google Alert bringing me to this thread. Some quick updates: 

1. We are planning our next investment update webinar for Tuesday, January 23rd at 1pm CT. If you are an AHP investors, expect an invite soon. Counsel handling the litigation which was discussed in December will be joining.  

Hi,

Usually I'll get an invite a few days before the webinar, but so far nothing.  Is this still planned for tomorrow?

Thanks,
James

[Paul Chapey]

Quote from @James Hammett:

Hi,

Usually I'll get an invite a few days before the webinar, but so far nothing.  Is this still planned for tomorrow?

Thanks,
James

 I also have not received an invitiation to the webinar.

[Mark F.]

Here's a link to the first litigation filing by AHP. I just received an email for the webinar link on Jan 30.

https://go.prereo.com/e/1024681/kQVfA1qH0fI6c2a6w3D-reserved-0/4hpkfm/215224722/h/_pgmWKxb6KTbwclPueI67fT_dV74FYrpyjvPonpkHlw

[Jorge Newbery]

We moved the webinar to next Tuesday. January 30th at 1pm CT and invitations went out this morning. 

Here is a link to the first litigation which we have filed in this matter, in federal court in Illinois pertaining to 13 assets: https://ahpservicing.com/File_stamped_Complaint_with_Exhibit.... We plan similar litigation in over 40 additional states.

The opposition has filed a separate suit, which we have removed to federal court and answered, and plan additional filings this week. We will provide links to these as well.

Brian Benoit of Miller Berger is coordinating AHP’s legal efforts nationwide and will join the webinar.

[Paul B.]

Quote from @James Mc Ree:

It doesn't sound like AHP is declaring it lost yet. It looks like they are setting our expectations for a couple years of litigation.

yikes, if I am going to lose money, I'd rather know now. I am paying quarterly fees to the self-directed IRA that I only opened to invest with AHP. 

[Jorge Newbery]

Here are links to the filings in the litigation filed in Washington:                   
Third Party Complaint, filed on Friday: https://ahpservicing.com/197111055381.pdf 

https://ahpservicing.com/Notice_of_Removal_of_Action_to_US_District_Court.pdf

https://ahpservicing.com/Notice_of_Removal_to_Federal_Court.pdf

https://ahpservicing.com/Cymbidium_Restoration_Trust_Complaint.pdf

[Jason Monaco]

After listening to this months webinar I have a few questions.... the total amount of investor money is 60 million. According to the info on the webinar Oakhill capital has stolen or is in control of 65 million. My questions are....

1. why if ahp owed only 3 million to pay off the debt in October did ahp give oak harbor access to 65 million of their assets? 

2. If ahp owes 60 million to investors and oak harbor has 65 million held up..say best case ahp wins there is no way they are going to net 65 million.          Where is the 60 million going to come from to pay back investors.

Something is not adding up.

[Mark F.]

Quote from @Jason Monaco:

After listening to this months webinar I have a few questions.... the total amount of investor money is 60 million. According to the info on the webinar Oakhill capital has stolen or is in control of 65 million. My questions are....

1. why if ahp owed only 3 million to pay off the debt in October did ahp give oak harbor access to 65 million of their assets? 

2. If ahp owes 60 million to investors and oak harbor has 65 million held up..say best case ahp wins there is no way they are going to net 65 million.          Where is the 60 million going to come from to pay back investors.

Something is not adding up.

1. Jorge answered this question in an indirect, or direct I can't remember, way. AHP pledged $65 million in assets as collateral. IE they gave all of the mortgage collateral files to Oak Harbor and its being held by a bank. Gotta put up collateral to get a loan. And it was $19 million and change that Oak Harbor loaned to AHP. Not $3 million. I don't think 60 mil against 20 mil is unrealistic but this isn't my specialty.

2. Once AHP has possession of the assets back, they can continue to collect payments on some (Oak Harbor has been illegally collecting them thru violated POA) and start to work thru the foreclosure or resolution process on the rest. I believe the value of those assets are more than $60 million once sold. I could be wrong but remember, AHP isn't collecting payments on those assets which is reoccurring revenue or if they pay off. And it's not netting 60 million in cash. It's just receiving the collateral files back from a bank so they can be dispo'ed.

[Chris Seveney]

These cases can be found on pacer.gov for anyone interested

I am gonna sit back with my popcorn on this one as I am intrigued to see how this plays out and will keep my opinions to myself.

[Amanda K.]

Has any received the link to the webinar from last week? If so, would you mind sharing it?

Thank you in advance.

[Sam Wilson]

I'm in the middle of a few deals like this now unfortunately. It seems the finger pointing happens when things go south. I believe the best course of action right now is to assume that this all ends in nothing for the investors and attorneys fees for the attorneys. After that, I expect very little. A bit of a bummer but I guess this is the way it goes when we venture into less tried tried and true investments. If anyone does have a webinar replay link I would love to get a copy of that. Thank you. I never received the initial invite.

[Mark S.]

Quote from @Sam Wilson:

I'm in the middle of a few deals like this now unfortunately. It seems the finger pointing happens when things go south. I believe the best course of action right now is to assume that this all ends in nothing for the investors and attorneys fees for the attorneys. After that, I expect very little. A bit of a bummer but I guess this is the way it goes when we venture into less tried tried and true investments. If anyone does have a webinar replay link I would love to get a copy of that. Thank you. I never received the initial invite.

I hope you're wrong, but you could be correct.  Despite all the challenges and total *****how unfolding, I will say that I do believe Jorge is genuine and really wants to successfully get through all this.  All I know is that I have a shitton of large cheese pizzas on the line.

[Chris Seveney]

@Mark S.

Which offering were you invested in?

[Andrew Frishman]

Suddenly crypto investing doesn't feel so volatile anymore!!@

[Mark S.]

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Mark S.

Which offering were you invested in?

 2015A+ and Servicing.  Why?

[Mark S.]

Quote from @Andrew Frishman:

Suddenly crypto investing doesn't feel so volatile anymore!!@

 HODL!