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My handyman start renovation at my property took the money and go
I have properties at south bend in. I start work with handyman he took the money didn't finish the work and disappear. I met him after he contact me at biggerpocket
#3 1031 Exchanges Contributor
- Investor
- Las Vegas, NV
Is he still on here? Joined long ago with lots of posts?
#5 Wholesaling Contributor
- Real Estate Broker
- Naples, FL
If appropriate post his name here.
Any time any of we investors come across a person of such low handedness, they must be "OUTED" for their actions! Now, with that said, you should protect yourself by filing a law suit against the person of interest and have a judgement from the court to back your statements, before posting names, numbers and personal info on line.
Even if the person has done such a dastardly job and ripped you off, he/she must be found guilty in either small claims court ($14-$29) filing fee depending what county in WA State, Civil/Superior ($20-$400) filing fee depends what county in WA. State criminal court (over $5000.00).
Check your state laws and fees, have your documents and complaint ready to go. Be ready to go to court, get a judgement and then settle the score in a public forum! You can supply the documents ON LINE because it is of PUBLIC RECORD and your are making a PUBLIC NOTICE for all to see! For around $500-$1000 you can have paralegal do this work for you as well.
Oh yeah,when hiring anyone, NO MATTER how large the job or how small the job, Have them give you a VERIFICATION OF DEPOSITS from their banker or verification they are licensed, bonded and insured. Then start a paper trail of expenses, payments and deposits for that project.
I have seen to many private investors, flippers and professionals conducting real estate without proper security nets. We all have hired someone working out of the back of their truck. I've been burned myself!! The procedures above are the actions I've taken to drive these people out of the county and even out of the state.
Good luck with your quest.
Yes he join long ago with lot of post
We all work so hard for what we have. Why do people do this? Sorry for what happened to you.
Thanks you John barrows.
For your unswer
how we can do it at south bend ? At the aggriment we sighn that resputers shell be resolved by binding arbitration.
And We are living about 15 hour flying from there south bend ...
@Michal Shain ben harosh I'm very sorry to hear about you experience. Moving forward though use this as a learning experience so you never have to learn the lesson again. Whether you receive the referral or offer of services from BP, a relative, a client, etc., verify verify verify. Best read as do your due diligence on all potential vendors well before agreeing to hire them for the job regardless of the size. Request 5 references for jobs completed in the past 1-180 days, then actually call the list of references. Schedule a time to go view their work on other jobs to determine quality. Ask and confirm all of the basics like insurance, license and bond. Check accredited sources like BBB or trade associations. If all of these things check out, then you talk over the contract for the work to be performed and the draw schedule. This should be based on a scope of work and partial payment following completion and sign-off on specific tasks.
Never pay up front money with a contractor you have't successfully worked with numerous times before, and even then, upfront costs would be limited to material and permitting required to start the project. Easy way around this with a new vendor is that you directly pay and schedule deliver of materials to the job site, not give the money to the vendor up front.
If you follow the above the risk and probability of a vendor stealing from you goes close to zero percent. I don't mean to preach to you while experiencing such a bad outcome, but it never ceases to amzae me how many people get into investing in real estate and/or they take on a project without having a game plan in place to protect the very funds they are trying to turn into wealth. Spending the extra time to perform all of this due diligence on the front end will save you hundreds of thousands or more in the long term. It also helps weed out the average and below average vendors from the great ones who have great systems. If a vendor cannot or won't provide you with the above info move on, you don't want them anyway!!!
Had it happen myself. Welcome to the real world. If the prices are out of line in a big kinda way that should be a red flag, but if we didn’t know real prices then we just see a great deal. A desperate contractor will tell you what you want to hear. I know prices a lot better now, but bids can be all over the board.
The last guy that ripped me off was a flooring person that came “recommended”. I don’t think this guy planned on skipping out, but he spent the material money before he got the flooring. I gave him money to buy flooring up front since he asked and came recommend by a close friend. Then he started other jobs to get money to finish my job and buy my flooring. After two months of waiting and harassing him, I had to pay someone else to finish the job.
Not telling you what to do, but I had to simply move on and not spend anymore of my emotional energy on spilled milk.
Here's another thought for all in the flipping, wholesaling, construction or real estate business for transactions. If you are doing a NEW construction, the BANK will hold payments until 1/3 of build is completed.Bank will send out a rep to verify, then myself and the bank will sign off for release of funds. If you hire a company to do a remodel/partial rebuild or just a cosmetic face lift, they need more then 5% of the entire project UP FRONT, do not hire them. That tells you that they don't have the money to start or see the project through to completion.
Most painters, carpet installers, plumbers, electricians, roofers will and can show you a materials list and ask for some type of payment up front. I ALWAYS, negotiate with the company to go to the supply company with them where the materials are being purchased. I verify the amounts, then pay for the product to be DELIVERED to my ON-SITE job! WHY? because for the few extra dollars and control, I have the product even if they decide not showing up for the job! So,the only money you'll need to pay extra is for the labor to install the products.
This may seem extreme but, that's how you develop a solid working relationship with any company you have working for your interests. I have a few companies who love this because they get paid immediately upon completion and are not paying out of pocket up front to do the job. Investors understand "man hours" and profit. I always say pay well for the job, it get's done fast, cheaper and it's ready for sale.
Finally, educate yourselves to what the (materials costs are) for any project you're undertaking. It takes a few hours to measure, look at product and price materials. Now, you have an idea of what you are paying the contractor for their labor.
Hope this helps everyone working with contractors.
@Michal Shain ben harosh I am sorry about the situation. Who is the guy that did this?
I now him from biggerpocket.
I'm not sure I can publish his name here so he won't complain that I'm denying him but i am intend to sue him for all the damages and then it'll be published in his record.
Was your handyman a licensed contractor? If so was he bonded? Did you have a performance bond agreement? Did he provide any insurance information? General liability insurance for most contractors is not a bond that covers performance, general liability only covers property damage/bodily injury in his negligence. Did he even have a written contract? How did you pay him?
This should be a good lesson to use a professional contractor next time and acutally review their contract in depth. Unfortunately this kinda thing happens all the time with handyman who aren't licensed. Even if you sue him he'll probably end up declaring bankruptcy and you won't see any of your money back.
first thing you should do is find out if your state has a department of consumer affairs and report him there. Figure out what dept in your local jurisdiction regulates construction licenses and report him to the board. Last but not least if he really got over on you it's time to lawyer up.
I am looking to recognize and build a professional and reliable team for renovations and restoration in South Bend. I would like to receive recommendations from personal experience. It is important with licensed contractor.
thanks
I feel your pain. I am also an out of state investor. I live in Ottawa, Canada, and invest in South Bend. I have about 30 doors right now and have an excellent team that includes great contractors, but I have had the same experience with unethical contractors that did not deliver the work but took the cash. Unfortunately, the market is hot right now, so everyone with a pickup truck and a shovel is calling themselves a contractor.
To mitigate this risk when doing a fix and flip, I have my contractor and broker walk the property together and we do a video conference call so that I can see what's going on. We will use this opportunity to decide what we want to do with the property.
The contractor will then use this information to give me quote and I use that to create a project plan. I never pay him all the funds at one time. We break the project up into 3 draws and he gets paid once the work has been completed. I have him complete a video walk through each week so that I can see progress and measure against the plan. My broker will review his work and create a punch list of outstanding issues as she goes along.
It's not perfect, but it helps to mitigate the risk and allow me to sleep at night.
Happy to help in any way I can. I'll connect with you directly and we can discuss.
Stephen
Thanks a lot for your time and your detailed answer( ,we apricate it very much.
And please sorry for my mistakes it English ( not my first language)
At our case we did some of the things you wrote at your response, the payment for, the renovation was divided into 4 payments, and indeed in the first 3 steps we got a video and the agent checked and everything was fine. The contractor insisted that we make the last payment, before the end of the work and that is our mistake, we trusted him and then he disappeared for 3 weeks suddenly sent a message apologizing and such excuses and others made promises and disappeared again and again for 3 times. In early November 2019, we arrive in South Bend to solve the problem and regardless of this problem, we would like to meet serious professionals and continue to invest and develop in real estate.
Originally posted by @John Barrows:
...you should protect yourself by filing a law suit against the person of interest and have a judgement from the court to back your statements, before posting names, numbers and personal info on line.
Good point.
Thanks for that point.
that's why we didn't posting his name or ather details
@Michal Shain ben harosh what's his name? Tag them in this post!
@Alex G. Legit question... It sounds like they gave a signed contract with the guy that skipped out. How would outing him online effect anything from a law suit standpoint if that's what OP is going to do?
Originally posted by @Gabriel Graumann:
@Michal Shain ben harosh I'm very sorry to hear about you experience. Moving forward though use this as a learning experience so you never have to learn the lesson again. Whether you receive the referral or offer of services from BP, a relative, a client, etc., verify verify verify. Best read as do your due diligence on all potential vendors well before agreeing to hire them for the job regardless of the size. Request 5 references for jobs completed in the past 1-180 days, then actually call the list of references. Schedule a time to go view their work on other jobs to determine quality. Ask and confirm all of the basics like insurance, license and bond. Check accredited sources like BBB or trade associations. If all of these things check out, then you talk over the contract for the work to be performed and the draw schedule. This should be based on a scope of work and partial payment following completion and sign-off on specific tasks.
Never pay up front money with a contractor you have't successfully worked with numerous times before, and even then, upfront costs would be limited to material and permitting required to start the project. Easy way around this with a new vendor is that you directly pay and schedule deliver of materials to the job site, not give the money to the vendor up front.
If you follow the above the risk and probability of a vendor stealing from you goes close to zero percent. I don't mean to preach to you while experiencing such a bad outcome, but it never ceases to amzae me how many people get into investing in real estate and/or they take on a project without having a game plan in place to protect the very funds they are trying to turn into wealth. Spending the extra time to perform all of this due diligence on the front end will save you hundreds of thousands or more in the long term. It also helps weed out the average and below average vendors from the great ones who have great systems. If a vendor cannot or won't provide you with the above info move on, you don't want them anyway!!!
Hi Gabriel, please how does one confirm Insurance and Bond? If my contractor sends me those, what do I do to confirm their legitimacy?
I have a GC I'm about to get into contract with and need to do my due diligence.
I have also requested a Dun and Bradstreet number to check their background and credit history.
Responding to Laurence Obi to his question of Gabriel,
Question was: Hi Gabriel, please how does one confirm Insurance and Bond? If my contractor sends me those, what do I do to confirm their legitimacy?
I have a GC I'm about to get into contract with and need to do my due diligence.
I have also requested a Dun and Bradstreet number to check their background and credit history.
Answer: Your state has all of this information and can verify Insurance, bond type and amount. It's public knowledge.
Answer # 2: By mentioning this person on an open forum and accusing this company or person of a said crime is LIBEL. Here is the definition:Defamation, Slander and Libel. Defamation is an area of law that provides a civil remedy when someone's words end up causing harm to your reputation or your livelihood. Libel is a written or published defamatory statement, while slander is defamation that is spoken by the defendant. Please note; CIVIL REMEDY
@Laurence Obi As John referenced you can use your state's online public records search to validate all of these items such as if the entity is current on their filings, bond amount, and by calling the insurance company directly. I would refrain from posting a name publicly until a judgement has been made by the courts, otherwise you put yourself at risk as others have stated. Too easy these days to jump to social media accounts to blast a poor performing client prior to allowing due process to run its course. Again, simply following good business practices during the interview, research and due diligence process BEFORE hiring anyone will save you 99% of the time from issues arising like the original post.
Thanks John Barrows and Gabriel Graumann. Your responses have been very helpful.
