Financially Free in just a Few Years

Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes

3y

I totally agree. I strongly believe that you should be on sound financial footing to start investing. And as you said it's tougher than ever to find a deal - even the competition for off-market has increased in the last few years.

1 Reply

V.G JasonPro Member

Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

3y

If someone's dumb enough to fall for it, that's their problem. It's not like there's any results guaranteed. It also goes to show that BP probably isn't getting the attention they are seeking or views. So clickbait may help that.

1 Reply

Dave PoeppelmeierBusiness Member

Realtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes

3y

I agree, there could not be a worse topic. I have new investors calling me wanting to by 20 units their first year with unrealistic expectations due to podcasts like this. Yes, they say "outliers" in the request, but that's exactly what it is: the exception, not the rule.

Podcast Guest on Show #380

Keller Williams Citywide | Dave Poeppelmeier534 Reviews

Website View Page

1 Reply

Galen Ikonomov

Member since 2021 · 256 posts · 213 votes

3y

One of the reasons I stopped listening to the Podcast. Most of the topics are clickbait. The original BP lost its charm.

No, I am not going to believe that a guy with 10 "doors" in Godknowswhere, Kentucky has achieved Financial Freedom. Maybe he has obtained financial freedom from paying for gas and the water bill.

6 Reply

James WilcoxBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Bowling Green KY ~ Lexington, KY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes

3y

In defense of BP, the diversity of topics covered by them already on their podcast is vast and already offered a comprehensive understanding of the real estate investing industry. However, it is important to note that showcasing the day-to-day grind of a seasoned real estate investor, who simply buys one property a year, may not be as captivating to audiences. While it is important to acknowledge the practical aspects of real estate investing, it is also crucial to keep the audience engaged by highlighting the more dramatic and noteworthy experiences. I believe as well that they should include more stories of overcoming unexpected challenges, such as a tenant causing significant damage to a property, and how the investor navigated the situation. *cough* Ask me how IK. It's important to learn from the reality of the business but also to keep the audience's interest.

@Galen Ikonomov don't knock my Godknowshere, KY properties. lol

REI James w/ eXp Realty54 Reviews

Website View Page

5 Reply

Carlos Ptriawan

Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

Apparently this is a new podcast title, and I don't think it's a good one. BP needs to stop setting unrealistic expectations. I get the fact that it is great click bait, everyone wants to dream, just a few years of "being an investor" and you never have to work again, travel the world. "From homeless to 200 units" and other inspirational stories. - Literally "GET RICH QUICK"!

I have seen portfolios of celebrated over-night-success investors and when you look under the

I spend a lot of time helping new investors and one of the first things I try to instill in them is to think in decades, not months. When you buy a deal, think about owing it for at least 10 years, if not 30. Evaluate it from that perspective. REI is not a get rich quick thing!!

You are really my friend here.
Biggerpocket totally sucks on this point, all those post 200 doors are gone now LOL.
BP has a moral liability to educate people properly.

many class B GP syndicator is screaming now as they have baloon payment in 2023/4 with floating rate.

2 Reply

Marcus Auerbach

OP

Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes

3y

Quote from @V.G Jason:

If someone's dumb enough to fall for it, that's their problem. It's not like there's any results guaranteed. It also goes to show that BP probably isn't getting the attention they are seeking or views. So clickbait may help that.

The goals have changed: before Joshua Dorkin sold BP things were different. He came from a place where he wanted to make the industry better. Out of his own personal experience he kept stressing the importance of positive cash flow. The market is going back to high prices / low cash flow, but BP is now private equity owned and is still pushing the ATM dream for more clicks and growth. You have a few individuals who try to do the right thing like Dave Meyer, who I respect a lot, but the leadership seems KPI driven and you have young staff seemingly without experience of their own trying to move the needle.

2 Reply

Corby GoadeBusiness Member

Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

3y

Can't say I disagree. I work with LOTS of new investors that I connect with here- and I am grateful for that. But...it takes serious effort to nudge them to "unlearn" some of the falacies that are prevalent on these boards.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. If you get "rich" in a couple of years, it's either unsustainable or you are fooling yourself.

There's truly nothing new under the sun in REI- it's the second oldest profession and we already know what works 100% of the time. Many people just don't have the patience or the grit to make that happen- it's too exciting to get rich quick and if your first property isn't a grand slam cash cow, people give up or don't even start.

2 Reply

Carlos Ptriawan

Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

3y

The problem with young dudes is they don't understand that 5% is a good conservative number, for appreciation, cash flow,interest-rate, cap rate, etc.

the young dude doesn't have patience because they see their friend in tech make millions like there's no tomorrow, even conservative banking like jp morgan is advising the mass to invest in crypto and stuff like that. we definitely live in strange times where aggressiveness and abnormality are the new normal.

it's good the grandpa powell slap their face and saying be rational guys.

2 Reply

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

BP is just running a business, so on the one hand I can see the attraction of using a tease to draw in people. But yeah, there is a responsibility to the public to install some reality along the way.....

We do get a LOT of newbies on here with very unrealistic views. I just answered a topic 'is $5,000 enough to get started'? Well technically it is always possible, but in reality the answer is a big NO...!

So we as the more experienced investors have a huge responsibility to educate these young and newbie folks.

9 Reply

Matt Rekowski

Investor · Madison, WI · Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 5 votes

3y

Marcus, it’s always good to see your posts on here with reminders to keep my expectations in check. Do you feel like there are still ways that people are doing very well investing and building their portfolio rapidly?

1 Reply

Galen Ikonomov

Member since 2021 · 256 posts · 213 votes

3y

@Matt Rekowski Not in Dane county lol.

0 Reply

Nick Robinson

Rental Property Investor · Murrieta, CA · Member since 2020 · 338 posts · 343 votes

3y

@Marcus Auerbach
I totally agree that there has been way too many people trying to be financially free in a short period of time. People are trying to quit their jobs way to early w/o seeing if their portfolio can sustain them or being able to grow quicker now that their expenses are covered. I remember people telling me that at BPCon a couple of years ago in New Orleans everyone was saying just buy RE even if it has negative CF. The AirBnB craze was another one everyone jumped into. I am seeing ridiculous pricing for AirBnB for track homes that have no attractions to pull you to the area. It's cheaper and better service just to get a hotel. At least there I can pay less and do not have to clean the house.

This goes back to our previous conversation of where the supply is going to come from. Everyone had FOMO thinking they will never get a personal residence now we see home prices have not only dropped double digits since June, but we are seeing negative YoY appreciation. I do not usually listen to any BP and just recently jumped back on here b/c everything was about getting rich quick and I can only hear so many times some guy justifying that he has a -$2,000 CF/mo but the houses in SF appreciate $4,000/mo so it was a great investment.

Dave Meyer is fine he has a lot of stats, but I think the analysis is lacking in most cases. For instance, the last post he did about the CPI being a great sign for Americans and housing was IMO weak thinking. The CPI YoY is 6.5% over the last 6mo if you annualize the # it is 1.9%. He even states the 7% shelter # over the year is not only inaccurate but not the case in real life where we have seen stagnant rents or declining rents. Just like most he says, "O, CPI down that's great" what you should be asking is why is it coming down. It is coming down b/c demand has been crushed and we are headed into an economic downturn. How bad no one knows but the smart money, ie Bond markets, are predicating/hedging for something bad. UST inverted worse since 1980, Euro$ most ever, German Bonds most inverted ever and only 2nd time in history the first time being '08. Once again not predicating an '08 but the smart money is hedging against something they think will be pretty bad. The 3/10 has almost 100% recession indicator and the only time it was wrong in 60s we went from 10.8% GDP growth to .6% so I am going to advocate for 100% accuracy b/c that couldn't have been fun.

Amateurs look to the right of the equal sign professionals look to the left.

3 Reply

Paul Pratt

Real Estate Agent · Member since 2023 · 91 posts · 80 votes

3y

I disagree, I don't think BP has a liability to educate people. An investor must do their own due diligence and educate themselves. Anyone who has done an ounce of research or used a free cash-flow calculator will see almost every deal will be negative in this market or at best a couple hundred bucks.

BP is showing anomalies in their posts because that's what people want to see. The story about someone who over the course of 20 years made sound investments, just doesn't draw attention.

At the end of the day, this industry is similar to almost every other one out there. You get out what you put in and for some they may get there faster. Others, no matter what they do, never will. Nothing is an equal playing field.

2 Reply

Scott Mac

Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes

3y

As far a buy and hold goes, down payments are the stopping point.

You can only buy (and hold) what you have a down payment for.

Some people (when the market is right for it) will flip.

Those who know the rules of this game, and are hammer swinger types may have an advantage in this area vs someone who has no sawdust in their blood.

If you have no idea of the difference between a Radial Arm Saw and a Chop Saw, or what exactly to use to caulk a wet location, your communication with your sub-contractors might not be very clear all of the time, resulting in inferior (to what you wanted) work, or costly re-dos.

In my opinion flipping is more like a job, where you can either live off the money, or use it to buy and hold income producing real estate for your portfolio.

Just my 2 cents.

3 Reply

Matt Rekowski

Investor · Madison, WI · Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 5 votes

3y

Quote from @Galen Ikonomov:

@Matt Rekowski Not in Dane county lol.

Haha yeah you’re not wrong there. I’m hardly paying any attention to properties in Madison currently.

1 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

3y

Marcus,

All valid points that I personally agree with. What I find is difficult or to put into perspective is the financial freedom NUMBER the actual dollar revenue per month for an individual feels they are financially free.

From what I have seen on BP over the years that number can be as low as 3 to 5k a month with I would say the overwhelming majority think they have achieved financial freedom at 10k a month.

For some those numbers could be very realistic they live in a very low priced market were they can buy a primary home for 150 to 250k and live a modest lifestyle dont have a bunch of kids are not saving for collage educations and currently have never paid for their own health insurance or 100% funded their own IRAs every year etc etc.

For my own personal experience those that get truly wealthy at rentals either scale over decades and have enjoyed very robust appreciation while retiring debt and or those that started with a significant JOB with very high income that allowed them to add units with little to no debt and wake up 20 years later owning 100 150 doors free and clear thats when you start talking financial freedom.. I am in your camp max debt on high touch rentals is a business

now I will say I do have clients that I fund their BRRR deals who are doing quite well but no way they could do the scale unless they had me or someone like me or had at least 500 to 1 mil liquid or more to start with. Or they take on partners which of course is a whole nother kettle of fish. As well as their business is ANYTHING but passive they works their butts off 6 days a week 10 plus hours a day.

Rental real estate is a great wealth builder one of the best given skill level and leverage but lets be realistic this is for 95% of investors a long game

Podcast Guest on Show #222

JLH Capital Partners51 Review

Website View Page

12 Reply

V.G JasonPro Member

Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

The problem with young dudes is they don't understand that 5% is a good conservative number, for appreciation, cash flow,interest-rate, cap rate, etc.

the young dude doesn't have patience because they see their friend in tech make millions like there's no tomorrow, even conservative banking like jp morgan is advising the mass to invest in crypto and stuff like that. we definitely live in strange times where aggressiveness and abnormality are the new normal.

it's good the grandpa powell slap their face and saying be rational guys.

You have REI here saying they don't invest unless their CoC is 12% or more or their attaining a 10% ROI. Then saying their coc is 20%, etc. while using the last two years.

A lot of the ******** is just right on these forums. Some say STRs are recession proof too, even though the real mainstream concept of STR was Airbnb. And that came out during the recession.

You have folks believe the s&p give you 10% annually too. It was like 8% on avg on the lowest fed funds rate period ever. I think people will either need to accept less returns, higher paper value or just stay out. Anyone trying for a quick buck needs to scram. Or they'll sell to people like me. Infact, I'm coming across some of those these days.

0 Reply

V.G JasonPro Member

Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

Quote from @V.G Jason:

If someone's dumb enough to fall for it, that's their problem. It's not like there's any results guaranteed. It also goes to show that BP probably isn't getting the attention they are seeking or views. So clickbait may help that.

The goals have changed: before Joshua Dorkin sold BP things were different. He came from a place where he wanted to make the industry better. Out of his own personal experience he kept stressing the importance of positive cash flow. The market is going back to high prices / low cash flow, but BP is now private equity owned and is still pushing the ATM dream for more clicks and growth. You have a few individuals who try to do the right thing like Dave Meyer, who I respect a lot, but the leadership seems KPI driven and you have young staff seemingly without experience of their own trying to move the needle.

I like Dave Meyers stuff. I don't like most of the others stuff. A lot of is hypothetical and I hate when people compare different eras of anything and act like the same concepts will work. In today's world you're not going to do most of what you could do 10 or 20 years ago or even before. For better or worse. Read and react.

0 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

3y

Quote from @V.G Jason:

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

Quote from @V.G Jason:

If someone's dumb enough to fall for it, that's their problem. It's not like there's any results guaranteed. It also goes to show that BP probably isn't getting the attention they are seeking or views. So clickbait may help that.

The goals have changed: before Joshua Dorkin sold BP things were different. He came from a place where he wanted to make the industry better. Out of his own personal experience he kept stressing the importance of positive cash flow. The market is going back to high prices / low cash flow, but BP is now private equity owned and is still pushing the ATM dream for more clicks and growth. You have a few individuals who try to do the right thing like Dave Meyer, who I respect a lot, but the leadership seems KPI driven and you have young staff seemingly without experience of their own trying to move the needle.

I like Dave Meyers stuff. I don't like most of the others stuff. A lot of is hypothetical and I hate when people compare different eras of anything and act like the same concepts will work. In today's world you're not going to do most of what you could do 10 or 20 years ago or even before. For better or worse. Read and react.

Except Soup De Jour is Sub too.. We were doing sub too late 70 s and all through the 80s during the Carter years of super high interest.. Nothing is different today than was in those years exact same transactions for what the gurus are charging folks big bucks for training today.. I just chuckle at some of these things where folks think these are brand new concepts never heard of before or implemented. Along with Coining BRRRR which was simply a rate and term refi after rehab.. did a few thousand of those for clients before BP was even a thing.. its all marketing.

Podcast Guest on Show #222

JLH Capital Partners51 Review

Website View Page

4 Reply

Galen Ikonomov

Member since 2021 · 256 posts · 213 votes

3y

Quote from @Matt Rekowski:

Quote from @Galen Ikonomov:

@Matt Rekowski Not in Dane county lol.

Haha yeah you’re not wrong there. I’m hardly paying any attention to properties in Madison currently.

Oh, there is no reverse there. I am in Madison every week.

I would probably say that the focus should be student housing. If you get to a house that houses students from UW M, you would score the jackpot.

0 Reply

Jill F.

Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes

3y

In order to determine qualifications I need definitions for both "rich" and "quick". I have wondered about some of the stories because I know how much money we started with and the kinds of properties we could/can afford to buy-- and the capital improvement requirements for these properties. In addition to renovating the interiors of our 53 units at each turn over, we are (now) doing 3-4 roofs per year and the same number of HVAC units. I know that we have unusually strong renovation skills, a strong (60+ hour per week) work ethic and a commitment to operating an ethical business. We will be at year 7 this summer. I expect to be "rich" by my standards and to have a mostly passive investment business and a 100(ish) door portfolio with nice properties and very little deferred maintenance by the end of year 12. Is that quick? Haha.

3 Reply

Carlos Ptriawan

Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Jill F.:

In order to determine qualifications I need definitions for both "rich" and "quick". I have wondered about some of the stories because I know how much money we started with and the kinds of properties we could/can afford to buy-- and the capital improvement requirements for these properties. In addition to renovating the interiors of our 53 units at each turn over, we are (now) doing 3-4 roofs per year and the same number of HVAC units. I know that we have unusually strong renovation skills, a strong (60+ hour per week) work ethic and a commitment to operating an ethical business. We will be at year 7 this summer. I expect to be "rich" by my standards and to have a mostly passive investment business and a 100(ish) door portfolio with nice properties and very little deferred maintenance by the end of year 12. Is that quick? Haha.

hahahaha , get rich slowly in my book is buy house in palo alto for 250k in 1993, to sell it again for 3 mil in 2023 (and lot of buy and sell in between) hahaha just kidding as lazy person that wanna rich slowly i just want to buy one unit that doesn't need HVAC and roof replacement.

1 Reply

Carlos Ptriawan

Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

3y

Quote from @V.G Jason:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

The problem with young dudes is they don't understand that 5% is a good conservative number, for appreciation, cash flow,interest-rate, cap rate, etc.

the young dude doesn't have patience because they see their friend in tech make millions like there's no tomorrow, even conservative banking like jp morgan is advising the mass to invest in crypto and stuff like that. we definitely live in strange times where aggressiveness and abnormality are the new normal.

it's good the grandpa powell slap their face and saying be rational guys.

You have REI here saying they don't invest unless their CoC is 12% or more or their attaining a 10% ROI. Then saying their coc is 20%, etc. while using the last two years.

A lot of the ******** is just right on these forums. Some say STRs are recession proof too, even though the real mainstream concept of STR was Airbnb. And that came out during the recession.

You have folks believe the s&p give you 10% annually too. It was like 8% on avg on the lowest fed funds rate period ever. I think people will either need to accept less returns, higher paper value or just stay out. Anyone trying for a quick buck needs to scram. Or they'll sell to people like me. Infact, I'm coming across some of those these days.

:-) :-) :-) amazing right , one of the question here in BP is to sell their 100% equity in san jose and re-invest in nft. Maybe they don't read in WSJ what happened to guy named SBF and not having netflix what happened to company named quadriga. it is just astonishing .....

0 Reply

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

3y

Clock punch free and indigestion free are different.

Financially 'free' 20 years ago, but not 90% indigestion free until 7 months ago.

There's no such thing as hassle-free real property transactions or ownership.

The indigestion even gets you on the way out. My 2 larger sales last year each took 7 weeks and 53 back and forth contract pgs.

Financially free is only half the story.

4 Reply

Financially Free in just a Few Years - aka "get rich quick"

Financially Free in just a Few Years - aka "get rich quick"

Most Popular Reply

49 Replies