How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

[Account Closed]

Hello! I've learned so much on BP, mostly from lurking over the last few years as I prepare to shift full time to RE. I'm curious to tap the brain trust here on any angles I may not have considered. Would love to hear your thoughts or strategies if you were in my shoes. 

I am 40, a creative director burnt out on the advertising industry, and ready to do construction/RE/rentals full time. I think the world needs more homes, and I want to be more involved in providing people a place to live. I believe builders and landlords do the country a service. 

My question: What's my best angle to dive into RE, given my skills and assets? I have the sense that I have a lot of good building blocks to work with, and I have some strategies I'm considering (like build and hold), but I would love the thoughts of the community. 

My goal:

Net worth of $10M, or $30k net monthly income.  I think this is a modest goal, in this day and age. 

What I have to work with: 

- An LLC (currently just run STR taxes through this)

- A Type S Corp (I run my ad business through this, but will shift it over to construction)

- A General Contractors license in the state of Oregon, tied to Type S Corp (have had and maintained since July of 2022)

- A construction skillset. Have built a couple dozen homes since my early 20's, on the side as specs and for us personally. I have tools for everything from concrete forms to finish carpentry.  

- Two homes: a primary residence and second home that we STR most of the year when we're not there. Both in Oregon. One worth $600k, one worth $400k. Combined debt on them is $394k.

- A $300k HELOC on the second home, at prime + 3% with a 20 year draw period. Balance $0. Just closed on this, and it's the final piece in my plan for a career shift.

How would you reach my goal, if you were me, starting with these tools and experience? I guess I'm hoping for ideas other than "use the HELOC to finance construction of a spec house, rinse and repeat."

Sorry this post is so long, no need to reply unless it's interesting or a fun thought experiment for you. TIA, and thanks so much to this community for the generous sharing of knowledge. One of my favorite places on the internet for keeping it real. 

[Alan F.]

Quote from @Account Closed:

Hello! I've learned so much on BP, mostly from lurking over the last few years as I prepare to shift full time to RE. I'm curious to tap the brain trust here on any angles I may not have considered. Would love to hear your thoughts or strategies if you were in my shoes. 

I am 40, a creative director burnt out on the advertising industry, and ready to do construction/RE/rentals full time. I think the world needs more homes, and I want to be more involved in providing people a place to live. I believe builders and landlords do the country a service. 

My question: What's my best angle to dive into RE, given my skills and assets? I have the sense that I have a lot of good building blocks to work with, and I have some strategies I'm considering (like build and hold), but I would love the thoughts of the community. 

My goal:

Net worth of $10M, or $30k net monthly income.  I think this is a modest goal, in this day and age. 

What I have to work with: 

- An LLC (currently just run STR taxes through this)

- A Type S Corp (I run my ad business through this, but will shift it over to construction)

- A General Contractors license in the state of Oregon, tied to Type S Corp (have had and maintained since July of 2022)

- A construction skillset. Have built a couple dozen homes since my early 20's, on the side as specs and for us personally. I have tools for everything from concrete forms to finish carpentry.  

- Two homes: a primary residence and second home that we STR most of the year when we're not there. Both in Oregon. One worth $600k, one worth $400k. Combined debt on them is $394k.

- A $300k HELOC on the second home, at prime + 3% with a 20 year draw period. Balance $0. Just closed on this, and it's the final piece in my plan for a career shift.

How would you reach my goal, if you were me, starting with these tools and experience? I guess I'm hoping for ideas other than "use the HELOC to finance construction of a spec house, rinse and repeat."

Sorry this post is so long, no need to reply unless it's interesting or a fun thought experiment for you. TIA, and thanks so much to this community for the generous sharing of knowledge. One of my favorite places on the internet for keeping it real. 

Since you've built 24 specs, maybe do some more & build up your war chest?

[Account Closed]

@Andy Bahr Thanks, yes, this this the way. I am leaning more towards a slow ramp off my current career, and a ramp into building with a build and hold strategy. I'm less interested in the stress of building if it's just paying current bills. I want it to pay future ones. 

@Jimmy Lieu- Thanks! I have spent time in Columbus and for the midwest - I love it.  Also totally acknowledge that the Willamette valley is at a different point in the growth curve than places like Ohio. I grew up near Ashland, and I think Southern Oregon (from Eugene south) still has a lot left in it.

@Henry Lazerow  Amazing insight. 

@Ryan Donohue Yeah, I guess I'm a little surprised that so many folks are triggered on here about the idea of bringing in $30k/month. That's a pretty tame goal. I'm on track to make that in my current career as a salary in the next 5 or 10 years.  So for me that goal is about buying back my time. But also - the math ain't mathin' if you need 2000 units to do that... that would be clearing just $15 per door to make $30k month if you have 2000 units. I know some folks have slim margins, but... $15 a door? But if I misread your hyperbole and took it literally - that's my bad, and I see your point regardless. Finding a mentor in this sector is on my 2024 list. 

Like I laid out in a post above - if a person builds three doors a year (build and hold) for the next 10 years, and they spend the following 10 years paying them off (it should only take 8.5 years with snowball method) - that's $30k/month gross right there on an 18.5 year timeline, though in 18 years, probably more like $45k.  Of course DOING it is another thing, but... it isn't rocket science. No special anything - just wood framing, two story buildings. Yes, shrinking the timeline requires more capital. 

The $10M goal is cumulative for me, as I have other irons in the fire besides RE which I'm not looking for advice on from this forum, and I regret posting that $. 

My takeaway from this post: 

1. Lot of opportunity out there in local regs at the small city level that are encouraging density

2. I need to find a mentor/seasoned build and hold investor

3. Most people have very modest goals if $30k/month has caused this reaction on a site called BiggerPockets.  

4. I'm curious - what are all of your goals? 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Account Closed:

@Andy Bahr Thanks, yes, this this the way. I am leaning more towards a slow ramp off my current career, and a ramp into building with a build and hold strategy. I'm less interested in the stress of building if it's just paying current bills. I want it to pay future ones. 

@Jimmy Lieu- Thanks! I have spent time in Columbus and for the midwest - I love it.  Also totally acknowledge that the Willamette valley is at a different point in the growth curve than places like Ohio. I grew up near Ashland, and I think Southern Oregon (from Eugene south) still has a lot left in it.

@Henry Lazerow  Amazing insight. 

@Ryan Donohue Yeah, I guess I'm a little surprised that so many folks are triggered on here about the idea of bringing in $30k/month. That's a pretty tame goal. I'm on track to make that in my current career as a salary in the next 5 or 10 years.  So for me that goal is about buying back my time. But also - the math ain't mathin' if you need 2000 units to do that... that would be clearing just $15 per door to make $30k month if you have 2000 units. I know some folks have slim margins, but... $15 a door? But if I misread your hyperbole and took it literally - that's my bad, and I see your point regardless. Finding a mentor in this sector is on my 2024 list. 

Like I laid out in a post above - if a person builds three doors a year (build and hold) for the next 10 years, and they spend the following 10 years paying them off (it should only take 8.5 years with snowball method) - that's $30k/month gross right there on an 18.5 year timeline, though in 18 years, probably more like $45k.  Of course DOING it is another thing, but... it isn't rocket science. No special anything - just wood framing, two story buildings. Yes, shrinking the timeline requires more capital. 

The $10M goal is cumulative for me, as I have other irons in the fire besides RE which I'm not looking for advice on from this forum, and I regret posting that $. 

My takeaway from this post: 

1. Lot of opportunity out there in local regs at the small city level that are encouraging density

2. I need to find a mentor/seasoned build and hold investor

3. Most people have very modest goals if $30k/month has caused this reaction on a site called BiggerPockets.  

4. I'm curious - what are all of your goals? 

when i first got on BP about 10 years ago many said if they could just get to 5k a month they would be financially free.. that has morphed to 10k a month being the common number.. And while that can work in some areas of the country.. I dont think people understand and we grow older and have kids and other financial obligations 10k is not going to be some fantastic retirement  or living .. Of course if you have zero debt and modest lifestyle probably works. I just look at my situation even with medicare we are at about 1500 a month just for health insurance.  So I for one think the 30k number in 20 years is a very realistic number to have to live a very nice lifestyle as long as you have no debt or minimal debt.

health insurance auto insurance TAx on your home and utls food clothing etc is going to run folks at least 5 to 7k a month.. so what great life is one going to have on 3k a month.

[Amby Bhagtani]

Quote from @Account Closed:

Hello! I've learned so much on BP, mostly from lurking over the last few years as I prepare to shift full time to RE. I'm curious to tap the brain trust here on any angles I may not have considered. Would love to hear your thoughts or strategies if you were in my shoes. 

I am 40, a creative director burnt out on the advertising industry, and ready to do construction/RE/rentals full time. I think the world needs more homes, and I want to be more involved in providing people a place to live. I believe builders and landlords do the country a service. 

My question: What's my best angle to dive into RE, given my skills and assets? I have the sense that I have a lot of good building blocks to work with, and I have some strategies I'm considering (like build and hold), but I would love the thoughts of the community. 

My goal:

Net worth of $10M, or $30k net monthly income.  I think this is a modest goal, in this day and age. 

What I have to work with: 

- An LLC (currently just run STR taxes through this)

- A Type S Corp (I run my ad business through this, but will shift it over to construction)

- A General Contractors license in the state of Oregon, tied to Type S Corp (have had and maintained since July of 2022)

- A construction skillset. Have built a couple dozen homes since my early 20's, on the side as specs and for us personally. I have tools for everything from concrete forms to finish carpentry.  

- Two homes: a primary residence and second home that we STR most of the year when we're not there. Both in Oregon. One worth $600k, one worth $400k. Combined debt on them is $394k.

- A $300k HELOC on the second home, at prime + 3% with a 20 year draw period. Balance $0. Just closed on this, and it's the final piece in my plan for a career shift.

How would you reach my goal, if you were me, starting with these tools and experience? I guess I'm hoping for ideas other than "use the HELOC to finance construction of a spec house, rinse and repeat."

Sorry this post is so long, no need to reply unless it's interesting or a fun thought experiment for you. TIA, and thanks so much to this community for the generous sharing of knowledge. One of my favorite places on the internet for keeping it real. 

 Maybe start with small goals first you just jumped from less 1m in net worth to 10m?

[James Hamling]

First @Account Closed gotta get your head wrapped around a few clarifications and corrections on this thing called REI.

LT buy-n-holds are not for wealth creation, not at any form or function of scale. 

Lot's of people like to bang the gong of cash-flow, but reality is cash-flow is a mechanism of sustainability of operations, not some big profit center. yes, some like to twist it to be, via various function of neglect. Which does not create profit, it's creates capital today via kicking-can and compounding future expense. 

And appreciation of property is in large part capital preservation, it is your investment capital being inflation adjusted. 

It is debt paydown via tenant payments that "creates" capital/wealth for yourself. So now when we CORRECTLY view it this way, we see it's a very VERY slow slog, over many MANY years. 

Your not talking 40+ years, right. 

So we have to focus over, as @Jay Hinrichs touched on which is ACTUAL wealth CREATION. And fact is it's actually a really simple paradigm that the best most reliable and efficient way to create, is via creation. So we are talking some function of developing, or redeveloping. 

The 2 most reliable, known, sustainable actions for this wealth creation is; path of Progress (a favorite of mine as I have started in this over 30yrs ago now) and RE-development. 

Detroit was both a great and a horrible example of re-development, but many minds go here first. often it's a much smaller market than an entire MSA. Generally it's something on neighborhood level, so this takes a lot of insight, research, timing and coordination. 

I personally believe Path of Progress is the winner given how much easier the analysis and projections are of such, but maybe I am bias, I find it very easy to identify and project such but again could be reflection of time in it. 

Now if you really want to amplify things it's about the age old adage of solving a problem. You do that, in path of progress, good chances you just caught lightening. 

There is really so many different ways to do this it's just overwhelming to try and think on 1, or present just 1, and who's to say which best connects with you. 

So how about this one. Targeting some "opportunity zones" where all markers of path of progress are present and your somewhere in phase I-II. Connect with open builder developments, make some deals, connect with some builder sot get other deals set and now develop from new for rental real estate, get them leased up earliest possible, pre or during build. Now with that, sell them to newer investor "wanna-B's" as turn-key AND with seller financing.     

Now you can ideally monetize it's sell price with the added premiums of turn-key and seller financing, and as completed raising the sale price significantly creating sizable profit. Than, get down at 20% mark and charge added premium of say 15%, but point is that down covers your cash outlay 100%+. 

now your monthly payments are based upon that higher sold price so even if conveyed at rate you have there is still a nice profit margin right there. 

So at end of day your invested capital is only on the float, under 12mnths. And your gaining investments at net-0, profits rolling monthly which if net-0 into it that's called infinite returns. 

This strategy, or mutations thereof, empower exponential portfolio growth. And that is how we can most readily get to $30k mnthly, because end of day it's not an issue of getting to $30k mnth it's an issue of how long it takes to grow such size of portfolio. So this is how we "hack" that growth rate. 

And when hit certain pre-determined portfolio size, we flip strategy over to consolidation and start pouring profit's into the actual LT hold properties. These could be other SFR or maybe it's MFH, or mini storage, who knows it all depends on how you want that exit to look far as involvement etc..

[Kevin Maher]

You have picked the worst time to get into real estate.  The market is saturated with abnb now.  Days rented is down 30% roughly.  Prices are at a all time high.  90% of the country can't afford to buy.  I find it hard to believe you can build at current rates and get a cash flow on long term rental.

[Robert Ellis]

Quote from @Account Closed:

Hello! I've learned so much on BP, mostly from lurking over the last few years as I prepare to shift full time to RE. I'm curious to tap the brain trust here on any angles I may not have considered. Would love to hear your thoughts or strategies if you were in my shoes. 

I am 40, a creative director burnt out on the advertising industry, and ready to do construction/RE/rentals full time. I think the world needs more homes, and I want to be more involved in providing people a place to live. I believe builders and landlords do the country a service. 

My question: What's my best angle to dive into RE, given my skills and assets? I have the sense that I have a lot of good building blocks to work with, and I have some strategies I'm considering (like build and hold), but I would love the thoughts of the community. 

My goal:

Net worth of $10M, or $30k net monthly income.  I think this is a modest goal, in this day and age. 

What I have to work with: 

- An LLC (currently just run STR taxes through this)

- A Type S Corp (I run my ad business through this, but will shift it over to construction)

- A General Contractors license in the state of Oregon, tied to Type S Corp (have had and maintained since July of 2022)

- A construction skillset. Have built a couple dozen homes since my early 20's, on the side as specs and for us personally. I have tools for everything from concrete forms to finish carpentry.  

- Two homes: a primary residence and second home that we STR most of the year when we're not there. Both in Oregon. One worth $600k, one worth $400k. Combined debt on them is $394k.

- A $300k HELOC on the second home, at prime + 3% with a 20 year draw period. Balance $0. Just closed on this, and it's the final piece in my plan for a career shift.

How would you reach my goal, if you were me, starting with these tools and experience? I guess I'm hoping for ideas other than "use the HELOC to finance construction of a spec house, rinse and repeat."

Sorry this post is so long, no need to reply unless it's interesting or a fun thought experiment for you. TIA, and thanks so much to this community for the generous sharing of knowledge. One of my favorite places on the internet for keeping it real. 

 you can build one development and entitle raw land and get 30k a month with your balance sheet and cash drawdown ability. no one who commented in columbus really does that but it's what I do. if you want to buy one at a time or 3 at a time and take your time in older housing stock I would but ground up land development and real estate development is very good and strong and new construction is on fire in columbus where the economics work very well. 

[Alfath Ahmed]

Quote from @Account Closed:

Hello! I've learned so much on BP, mostly from lurking over the last few years as I prepare to shift full time to RE. I'm curious to tap the brain trust here on any angles I may not have considered. Would love to hear your thoughts or strategies if you were in my shoes. 

I am 40, a creative director burnt out on the advertising industry, and ready to do construction/RE/rentals full time. I think the world needs more homes, and I want to be more involved in providing people a place to live. I believe builders and landlords do the country a service. 

My question: What's my best angle to dive into RE, given my skills and assets? I have the sense that I have a lot of good building blocks to work with, and I have some strategies I'm considering (like build and hold), but I would love the thoughts of the community. 

My goal:

Net worth of $10M, or $30k net monthly income.  I think this is a modest goal, in this day and age. 

What I have to work with: 

- An LLC (currently just run STR taxes through this)

- A Type S Corp (I run my ad business through this, but will shift it over to construction)

- A General Contractors license in the state of Oregon, tied to Type S Corp (have had and maintained since July of 2022)

- A construction skillset. Have built a couple dozen homes since my early 20's, on the side as specs and for us personally. I have tools for everything from concrete forms to finish carpentry.  

- Two homes: a primary residence and second home that we STR most of the year when we're not there. Both in Oregon. One worth $600k, one worth $400k. Combined debt on them is $394k.

- A $300k HELOC on the second home, at prime + 3% with a 20 year draw period. Balance $0. Just closed on this, and it's the final piece in my plan for a career shift.

How would you reach my goal, if you were me, starting with these tools and experience? I guess I'm hoping for ideas other than "use the HELOC to finance construction of a spec house, rinse and repeat."

Sorry this post is so long, no need to reply unless it's interesting or a fun thought experiment for you. TIA, and thanks so much to this community for the generous sharing of knowledge. One of my favorite places on the internet for keeping it real. 

 Tyler - as a real estate investor for the past 8 years and a top-producing investor agent here in Columbus. This is how I would get started if I were you with your skillset. 

The easiest way to get to $10M net worth is to do enough BRRRR's until you build a portfolio of 30-40 single-family's. Then you want to take the equity and re-finance or sell and move it to a larger multi-family apartment building or a couple.

I would continue doing this process very aggressively. You need to start by doing 1 renovation every couple months to 1 per month then scale to 2-3 every month. 

[Peter W.]

I'm not the pro many here are, but I ask myself, where can you use your marketing skills to get a higher return on investment.  The answer to me is either high end sales or vacation rentals. 

Then I ask where can you use your GC knowledge and the answer is rehabs and new builds.

So when I ask those two questions, I see flips for the 1% and rehabbing vacation homes to airbnb.  I would not be good at either of those, but that's probably where I would start researching if I had your skill set.

Folks have been talking about 3d printers. 3d printed materials are inherently weaker than conventional methods. I think module structures and kitchens (made out of composites?) which can be shipped via semi truck (max size 20'x40') is a better answer. The idea being if you can create a foundation and then place the modules on top with a crane and then join once they are located, you could significantly reduce the costs of the build. (Think manufactured/mobile homes which can be attached together to create a bigger house) One of our family friends worked on something like that for bridges in the 70s, technically it worked great, but DOT never got on board. Just my 2¢.

[Travis Timmons]

The net worth required to be in the top 1% in the US is $5.81M. You're talking close to double that and calling people small minded for thinking that it is a lot. 

Since there is no mention of cash on hand in your post, I am forced to assume that there is not a substantial pile that went unmentioned. If the question, then, is how do I turn $300k in debt at 11.5% interest into $10M and $40-45k in monthly cash flow (nets out to $30k after tax), I don't see a realistic path in residential real estate unless you have a really long time horizon or a skill set that I am missing.

[Account Closed]

@Peter W. Rehabbing high end and/or vacation homes for STR are both interesting ideas to me. thanks for throwing that out there. I think on the 3d the tech that's been discussed above is the concrete printing of homes. It's neat tech - most of what I've read on it is coming out of a company in Texas. From my limited research - getting the concrete slurry perfect is tricky, training your labor, and training your building dept on how to approve/inspect are the hurdles right now.

@Travis Timmons Hm. I mean - we all have two things: where we are, and where we want to be. We all have to find a path between the two.  You don't see one for me, and that's fair. I don't need you to.  I was transparent and vulnerable about what I'm trying to do, but I'm not stupid. I'm also not worried about my ability to do it. 

But I never called anyone small minded, and I don't think less of any monetary goal vs another.    It's true that I'm surprised that $30k/month as a goal comes off as annoying to so many, in 2024. That's $360k year. It's one of those things where whether you think that's a lot, or a little, you're right. 

Having a revolving $300k LOC, a couple houses and a good W2 isn't a ton, but it also isn't starting from scratch.

Thanks for all the input everyone.  Good luck to you all as you chart your own courses. 

[Warren Powers]

@Tyler Brain thank you for sharing this with us. My means and goals are much smaller than yours but I am finding more success now than ever before with flipping and private lending. I do believe with your drive and skill set, and forward thinking will lead you to meeting and surpassing your goals. Please be skeptical of those saying “can’t” and keep us apprised of your progress and success.

[Nicholas L.]

@Account Closed

I certainly appreciate your post, and I think your question was better for discussion purposes than people who come on BP and say "I have $5M in cash, what should I do?"

I never even know if those posts are real!

I did have questions for you.  For example, I was curious if you like operating your STR. That is certainly one path to wealth.

And I did want to clarify something.  Some of the more 'critical' responses weren't about the numbers, they were about passive vs. active, and long-term rentals vs. the 1000s of other investment / business options.

@Travis Timmons said for example "I don't see a realistic path in residential real estate."  Not, "I don't see any any path."  Having a construction business would be awesome, and it sounds like you have a perfect skill set for it.  I just think most of us wouldn't consider that "passive income from long term rentals."

I personally am hoping to put together a decent amount of truly passive income (dividends, savings) and semi-passive income (long term rentals - sometimes effortless, sometimes very much effort-ful).

[Account Closed]

Quote from @James Hamling:

First @Account Closed gotta get your head wrapped around a few clarifications and corrections on this thing called REI.

LT buy-n-holds are not for wealth creation, not at any form or function of scale. 

Lot's of people like to bang the gong of cash-flow, but reality is cash-flow is a mechanism of sustainability of operations, not some big profit center. yes, some like to twist it to be, via various function of neglect. Which does not create profit, it's creates capital today via kicking-can and compounding future expense. 

And appreciation of property is in large part capital preservation, it is your investment capital being inflation adjusted. 

It is debt paydown via tenant payments that "creates" capital/wealth for yourself. So now when we CORRECTLY view it this way, we see it's a very VERY slow slog, over many MANY years. 

Your not talking 40+ years, right. 

So we have to focus over, as @Jay Hinrichs touched on which is ACTUAL wealth CREATION. And fact is it's actually a really simple paradigm that the best most reliable and efficient way to create, is via creation. So we are talking some function of developing, or redeveloping. 

The 2 most reliable, known, sustainable actions for this wealth creation is; path of Progress (a favorite of mine as I have started in this over 30yrs ago now) and RE-development. 

Detroit was both a great and a horrible example of re-development, but many minds go here first. often it's a much smaller market than an entire MSA. Generally it's something on neighborhood level, so this takes a lot of insight, research, timing and coordination. 

I personally believe Path of Progress is the winner given how much easier the analysis and projections are of such, but maybe I am bias, I find it very easy to identify and project such but again could be reflection of time in it. 

Now if you really want to amplify things it's about the age old adage of solving a problem. You do that, in path of progress, good chances you just caught lightening. 

There is really so many different ways to do this it's just overwhelming to try and think on 1, or present just 1, and who's to say which best connects with you. 

So how about this one. Targeting some "opportunity zones" where all markers of path of progress are present and your somewhere in phase I-II. Connect with open builder developments, make some deals, connect with some builder sot get other deals set and now develop from new for rental real estate, get them leased up earliest possible, pre or during build. Now with that, sell them to newer investor "wanna-B's" as turn-key AND with seller financing.     

Now you can ideally monetize it's sell price with the added premiums of turn-key and seller financing, and as completed raising the sale price significantly creating sizable profit. Than, get down at 20% mark and charge added premium of say 15%, but point is that down covers your cash outlay 100%+. 

now your monthly payments are based upon that higher sold price so even if conveyed at rate you have there is still a nice profit margin right there. 

So at end of day your invested capital is only on the float, under 12mnths. And your gaining investments at net-0, profits rolling monthly which if net-0 into it that's called infinite returns. 

This strategy, or mutations thereof, empower exponential portfolio growth. And that is how we can most readily get to $30k mnthly, because end of day it's not an issue of getting to $30k mnth it's an issue of how long it takes to grow such size of portfolio. So this is how we "hack" that growth rate. 

And when hit certain pre-determined portfolio size, we flip strategy over to consolidation and start pouring profit's into the actual LT hold properties. These could be other SFR or maybe it's MFH, or mini storage, who knows it all depends on how you want that exit to look far as involvement etc..

I missed this post - thank you. This is interesting. I honestly had not even considered seller financing in this way, assuming it always involved leaving some capital in the deal, which I don't want to do in the short term, hoping to always return LOC to $0.

This framing of path of progress vs re-development is helpful too in sorting out strategies. Thanks again. 

[Peter W.]

Quote from @Account Closed:

@Peter W. Rehabbing high end and/or vacation homes for STR are both interesting ideas to me. thanks for throwing that out there. I think on the 3d the tech that's been discussed above is the concrete printing of homes. It's neat tech - most of what I've read on it is coming out of a company in Texas. From my limited research - getting the concrete slurry perfect is tricky, training your labor, and training your building dept on how to approve/inspect are the hurdles right now.

It's not just that, 3d printed concrete (and other materials) are significantly weaker than standard concrete, see e.g. 
Buildability and Mechanical Properties of 3D Printed Concrete - PMC (nih.gov) (figure 8).
You're going to end up with significantly more cracking and foundation/wall failure in your 3d printed structure and it's hard to reinforce with e.g. rebar, like typically used in concrete.  It's closer than fusion and quantum computers but there are still some very difficult technical problems.

Anyways, best of luck.  You'll probably spend time homing in on the formula which works for you.

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @James Hamling:

First @Account Closed gotta get your head wrapped around a few clarifications and corrections on this thing called REI.

LT buy-n-holds are not for wealth creation, not at any form or function of scale. 

Lot's of people like to bang the gong of cash-flow, but reality is cash-flow is a mechanism of sustainability of operations, not some big profit center. yes, some like to twist it to be, via various function of neglect. Which does not create profit, it's creates capital today via kicking-can and compounding future expense. 

And appreciation of property is in large part capital preservation, it is your investment capital being inflation adjusted. 

It is debt paydown via tenant payments that "creates" capital/wealth for yourself. So now when we CORRECTLY view it this way, we see it's a very VERY slow slog, over many MANY years. 

Your not talking 40+ years, right. 

So we have to focus over, as @Jay Hinrichs touched on which is ACTUAL wealth CREATION. And fact is it's actually a really simple paradigm that the best most reliable and efficient way to create, is via creation. So we are talking some function of developing, or redeveloping. 

The 2 most reliable, known, sustainable actions for this wealth creation is; path of Progress (a favorite of mine as I have started in this over 30yrs ago now) and RE-development. 

Detroit was both a great and a horrible example of re-development, but many minds go here first. often it's a much smaller market than an entire MSA. Generally it's something on neighborhood level, so this takes a lot of insight, research, timing and coordination. 

I personally believe Path of Progress is the winner given how much easier the analysis and projections are of such, but maybe I am bias, I find it very easy to identify and project such but again could be reflection of time in it. 

Now if you really want to amplify things it's about the age old adage of solving a problem. You do that, in path of progress, good chances you just caught lightening. 

There is really so many different ways to do this it's just overwhelming to try and think on 1, or present just 1, and who's to say which best connects with you. 

So how about this one. Targeting some "opportunity zones" where all markers of path of progress are present and your somewhere in phase I-II. Connect with open builder developments, make some deals, connect with some builder sot get other deals set and now develop from new for rental real estate, get them leased up earliest possible, pre or during build. Now with that, sell them to newer investor "wanna-B's" as turn-key AND with seller financing.     

Now you can ideally monetize it's sell price with the added premiums of turn-key and seller financing, and as completed raising the sale price significantly creating sizable profit. Than, get down at 20% mark and charge added premium of say 15%, but point is that down covers your cash outlay 100%+. 

now your monthly payments are based upon that higher sold price so even if conveyed at rate you have there is still a nice profit margin right there. 

So at end of day your invested capital is only on the float, under 12mnths. And your gaining investments at net-0, profits rolling monthly which if net-0 into it that's called infinite returns. 

This strategy, or mutations thereof, empower exponential portfolio growth. And that is how we can most readily get to $30k mnthly, because end of day it's not an issue of getting to $30k mnth it's an issue of how long it takes to grow such size of portfolio. So this is how we "hack" that growth rate. 

And when hit certain pre-determined portfolio size, we flip strategy over to consolidation and start pouring profit's into the actual LT hold properties. These could be other SFR or maybe it's MFH, or mini storage, who knows it all depends on how you want that exit to look far as involvement etc..

I missed this post - thank you. This is interesting. I honestly had not even considered seller financing in this way, assuming it always involved leaving some capital in the deal, which I don't want to do in the short term, hoping to always return LOC to $0.

This framing of path of progress vs re-development is helpful too in sorting out strategies. Thanks again. 

Yeah, the question you were really asking without knowing were asking it was; profitability, with sustainability and scalability. 

Too many get tunnel vision of the first and nothing else. Than come back to BP saying how "stuck' they feel and that it will take decades on end to get to where they want to be. 

Scalability is the rarest of factors to be tapped in REI, and every "big wig" has unlocked that but for some reason nobody ever seems to mention that piece.

And that's the heavy lift, how to scale with finite capital. This is why many choose OPM. But there is other ways, and infinite return model as I detailed is one but often too complex for most to comprehend the various moving parts and math to it all. 

Which there is some more details to the how of it but long story short keep your builder company separate from investment company, but you can have your builder co as a primary lender unto your investment company. Make sense? 

So your buying at market price, because you have to think about how you justify and hold market sale prices, without deflating that. Hence that structure of things. CDO to other self organization etc etc etc.. 

It get's to be a tangled web on paper, but that's kind of the point. 

[Peter W.]

Quote from @James Hamling:
Scalability is the rarest of factors to be tapped in REI, and every "big wig" has unlocked that but for some reason nobody ever seems to mention that piece. 

 That's the rub everywhere not just in RE.  Jobs tend to pay more than your own business, but they can't scale.  Even lots of businesses aren't set up to scale.   But when you get started, often you have to do things which don't scale to get into things which can.