Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Account Closed

Account Closed has started 3 posts and replied 12 times.

Post: How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16
Quote from @James Hamling:

First @Account Closed gotta get your head wrapped around a few clarifications and corrections on this thing called REI.

LT buy-n-holds are not for wealth creation, not at any form or function of scale. 

Lot's of people like to bang the gong of cash-flow, but reality is cash-flow is a mechanism of sustainability of operations, not some big profit center. yes, some like to twist it to be, via various function of neglect. Which does not create profit, it's creates capital today via kicking-can and compounding future expense. 

And appreciation of property is in large part capital preservation, it is your investment capital being inflation adjusted. 

It is debt paydown via tenant payments that "creates" capital/wealth for yourself. So now when we CORRECTLY view it this way, we see it's a very VERY slow slog, over many MANY years. 

Your not talking 40+ years, right. 

So we have to focus over, as @Jay Hinrichs touched on which is ACTUAL wealth CREATION. And fact is it's actually a really simple paradigm that the best most reliable and efficient way to create, is via creation. So we are talking some function of developing, or redeveloping. 

The 2 most reliable, known, sustainable actions for this wealth creation is; path of Progress (a favorite of mine as I have started in this over 30yrs ago now) and RE-development. 

Detroit was both a great and a horrible example of re-development, but many minds go here first. often it's a much smaller market than an entire MSA. Generally it's something on neighborhood level, so this takes a lot of insight, research, timing and coordination. 

I personally believe Path of Progress is the winner given how much easier the analysis and projections are of such, but maybe I am bias, I find it very easy to identify and project such but again could be reflection of time in it. 

Now if you really want to amplify things it's about the age old adage of solving a problem. You do that, in path of progress, good chances you just caught lightening. 

There is really so many different ways to do this it's just overwhelming to try and think on 1, or present just 1, and who's to say which best connects with you. 

So how about this one. Targeting some "opportunity zones" where all markers of path of progress are present and your somewhere in phase I-II. Connect with open builder developments, make some deals, connect with some builder sot get other deals set and now develop from new for rental real estate, get them leased up earliest possible, pre or during build. Now with that, sell them to newer investor "wanna-B's" as turn-key AND with seller financing.     

Now you can ideally monetize it's sell price with the added premiums of turn-key and seller financing, and as completed raising the sale price significantly creating sizable profit. Than, get down at 20% mark and charge added premium of say 15%, but point is that down covers your cash outlay 100%+. 

now your monthly payments are based upon that higher sold price so even if conveyed at rate you have there is still a nice profit margin right there. 

So at end of day your invested capital is only on the float, under 12mnths. And your gaining investments at net-0, profits rolling monthly which if net-0 into it that's called infinite returns. 

This strategy, or mutations thereof, empower exponential portfolio growth. And that is how we can most readily get to $30k mnthly, because end of day it's not an issue of getting to $30k mnth it's an issue of how long it takes to grow such size of portfolio. So this is how we "hack" that growth rate. 

And when hit certain pre-determined portfolio size, we flip strategy over to consolidation and start pouring profit's into the actual LT hold properties. These could be other SFR or maybe it's MFH, or mini storage, who knows it all depends on how you want that exit to look far as involvement etc..


I missed this post - thank you. This is interesting. I honestly had not even considered seller financing in this way, assuming it always involved leaving some capital in the deal, which I don't want to do in the short term, hoping to always return LOC to $0.

This framing of path of progress vs re-development is helpful too in sorting out strategies. Thanks again. 

Post: How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16

@Peter W. Rehabbing high end and/or vacation homes for STR are both interesting ideas to me. thanks for throwing that out there. I think on the 3d the tech that's been discussed above is the concrete printing of homes. It's neat tech - most of what I've read on it is coming out of a company in Texas. From my limited research - getting the concrete slurry perfect is tricky, training your labor, and training your building dept on how to approve/inspect are the hurdles right now.

@Travis Timmons Hm. I mean - we all have two things: where we are, and where we want to be. We all have to find a path between the two.  You don't see one for me, and that's fair. I don't need you to.  I was transparent and vulnerable about what I'm trying to do, but I'm not stupid. I'm also not worried about my ability to do it. 

But I never called anyone small minded, and I don't think less of any monetary goal vs another.    It's true that I'm surprised that $30k/month as a goal comes off as annoying to so many, in 2024. That's $360k year. It's one of those things where whether you think that's a lot, or a little, you're right. 

Having a revolving $300k LOC, a couple houses and a good W2 isn't a ton, but it also isn't starting from scratch.

Thanks for all the input everyone.  Good luck to you all as you chart your own courses. 

Post: How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16

@Andy Bahr Thanks, yes, this this the way. I am leaning more towards a slow ramp off my current career, and a ramp into building with a build and hold strategy. I'm less interested in the stress of building if it's just paying current bills. I want it to pay future ones. 

@Jimmy Lieu- Thanks! I have spent time in Columbus and for the midwest - I love it.  Also totally acknowledge that the Willamette valley is at a different point in the growth curve than places like Ohio. I grew up near Ashland, and I think Southern Oregon (from Eugene south) still has a lot left in it.

@Henry Lazerow  Amazing insight. 

@Ryan Donohue Yeah, I guess I'm a little surprised that so many folks are triggered on here about the idea of bringing in $30k/month. That's a pretty tame goal. I'm on track to make that in my current career as a salary in the next 5 or 10 years.  So for me that goal is about buying back my time. But also - the math ain't mathin' if you need 2000 units to do that... that would be clearing just $15 per door to make $30k month if you have 2000 units. I know some folks have slim margins, but... $15 a door? But if I misread your hyperbole and took it literally - that's my bad, and I see your point regardless. Finding a mentor in this sector is on my 2024 list. 

Like I laid out in a post above - if a person builds three doors a year (build and hold) for the next 10 years, and they spend the following 10 years paying them off (it should only take 8.5 years with snowball method) - that's $30k/month gross right there on an 18.5 year timeline, though in 18 years, probably more like $45k.  Of course DOING it is another thing, but... it isn't rocket science. No special anything - just wood framing, two story buildings. Yes, shrinking the timeline requires more capital. 

The $10M goal is cumulative for me, as I have other irons in the fire besides RE which I'm not looking for advice on from this forum, and I regret posting that $. 

My takeaway from this post: 

1. Lot of opportunity out there in local regs at the small city level that are encouraging density

2. I need to find a mentor/seasoned build and hold investor

3. Most people have very modest goals if $30k/month has caused this reaction on a site called BiggerPockets.  

4. I'm curious - what are all of your goals? 

Post: How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16

I just saw a news clip that San Jose CA is going to allow those that do ADU's to sell the ADU's like condo's I suspect those will be HUGE money makers in that market. .. 

I feel like if they can streamline the titling and financing on this kind of thing, this a big potential path for Millenials/Gen Z to jump in to ownership, to @Dan H.'s point above.  I feel like I don't go a day without seeing an article wondering how Gen Z will ever own homes - this and the cottage cluster concept seem like a good start. Thanks for the thoughts. 

Post: How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16
Quote from @Dan H.:

You are basically mid career and looking at non passive means.  As a creative director, GC, experienced builder you have a rare base.  

Some things to consider:

- use that creative side to find something that leverages AI technology that less creative people cannot see. 
- investigate use of 3d printing in development.   You could potentially invest in a 3d printer for development and use that creative side to market it.  It may not be total pivot from your current occupation but you could be self employed. It looks to have a promising future especially for those that can market it to the masses. 
- sophisticated value adds: development, TIC/coop, take advantage of localized regulations (2 off the top of my head: San Jose lot split for ADUs, San Diego city unlimited ADU count in existing conforming building), etc. note some localized regulations require creativity to envision. - other creative paths. For example how does the tic/coop differ from the new San Jose lot split? The most impactful way is financing. Creative solution to the tic/coop financing and you have a value add that you can leverage to riches beyond your stated goals.

I suspect a more creative person than me could expand this list.   That is your strength.  If you come up with a good creative idea or pursue one or more of my suggestions, pm me. 

Btw I do not know much of your background but know your stated goals are possible for many if they are willing to work it and take calculated risks.  My 21 year old son literally has worked 2 months at w2 in his life making very little money (at pet boarding place) but has over $200k from entrepreneur and side hustles that he has creatively recognized.   This while getting his degree from UCSB (so part time entrepreneur).  This includes subleasing his bedroom while at ucsb and sleeping in his car.  It is a good start.  I fully expect he will achieve your goal even if he does not inherit anything from me.  

Good luck


 Thank you for taking the time to reply, and for your general optimism. 


This is exactly the kind of thinking/ideas I was curious about. Pain points that I'm not yet aware of in this space, that I can potentially approach differently/with a new perspective. TIC/Co-op/condo type financing is an interesting angle I had not yet considered as a value add possibility. I need to connect with a bigger scale developer start to finish on a project to see how and where 3D printing could streamline there, but I love this idea. I'm working with a local engineer on finalizing a couple of ready to build ADU/triplex plans that I designed specifically for Oregon for my own uses, but you've got me thinking re: scale in general.

Will have to mull this over - thanks again for the reply. 

Post: How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

well thats a long slog trying to do it with rentals.

and the limited amount of captial you have currently which from your post is borrowed money .

To me you need to find land develop it and build it out.. thats where you will make big to bigger bucks the quickest then peel some profits off if you want to get into the rental game.


Thanks Jay! And other folks for replying. I must have a setting wrong, as I didn't get notified by these.  

I think the $10m goal is distracting from my main curiosity on whether there were specific ways in, in my situation. I'll edit the original post. 

And I like the idea of bigger scale developments, and am going to educate myself here.

Maybe a better initial question would have been something like this: Many/most cities/towns in Oregon now (by law) allow you to build three doors on any SFR lot (duplex, plus ADU). Many commuter towns (ie. Albany, or Lebanon, or Prineville) still have relatively affordable lots.

For easy math, if I build one triplex a year for the 10 years, I'll have 30 doors. If those doors average $1k month income, that's $30k/month. Using the next ten years and the snowball method to pay them off. At that point - won't it be at $30k/month, adjusted for inflation?  Seem like a good plan?  

Post: How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16
Quote from @Jonathan Bock:

 Ha, perfect! Yes, exactly. 

Post: How to get to $30k/month if you were me?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16

Hello! I've learned so much on BP, mostly from lurking over the last few years as I prepare to shift full time to RE. I'm curious to tap the brain trust here on any angles I may not have considered. Would love to hear your thoughts or strategies if you were in my shoes. 

I am 40, a creative director burnt out on the advertising industry, and ready to do construction/RE/rentals full time. I think the world needs more homes, and I want to be more involved in providing people a place to live. I believe builders and landlords do the country a service. 

My question: What's my best angle to dive into RE, given my skills and assets? I have the sense that I have a lot of good building blocks to work with, and I have some strategies I'm considering (like build and hold), but I would love the thoughts of the community. 

My goal:

Net worth of $10M, or $30k net monthly income.  I think this is a modest goal, in this day and age. 

What I have to work with: 

- An LLC (currently just run STR taxes through this)

- A Type S Corp (I run my ad business through this, but will shift it over to construction)

- A General Contractors license in the state of Oregon, tied to Type S Corp (have had and maintained since July of 2022)

- A construction skillset. Have built a couple dozen homes since my early 20's, on the side as specs and for us personally. I have tools for everything from concrete forms to finish carpentry.  

- Two homes: a primary residence and second home that we STR most of the year when we're not there. Both in Oregon. One worth $600k, one worth $400k. Combined debt on them is $394k.

- A $300k HELOC on the second home, at prime + 3% with a 20 year draw period. Balance $0. Just closed on this, and it's the final piece in my plan for a career shift.

How would you reach my goal, if you were me, starting with these tools and experience? I guess I'm hoping for ideas other than "use the HELOC to finance construction of a spec house, rinse and repeat."

Sorry this post is so long, no need to reply unless it's interesting or a fun thought experiment for you. TIA, and thanks so much to this community for the generous sharing of knowledge. One of my favorite places on the internet for keeping it real. 

Post: 5th mortgage - how to get past the tipping point?

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16

Howdy folks! 

So a couple months reading BP, and have a question for you, that has been covered before in passing many times, but thought maybe a thread that compiled the collective consensus would be a good idea? 

Fannie/Freddy limit the number of conventional loans per person to 4.  For most of us, that means our personal residence + 3 rentals. 

Question is - what is/was your personal stories and strategies for getting financing for that 5th (and beyond) property?

I understand that there are many commercial and hard money options for acquiring 5th and beyond properties, but they don't seem to have great long term interest rates that leave you the kind of cashflow you need for deals to pencil out.  I've read of people using the snowballing technique and paying off one rental at a time, thus freeing up a mortgage every couple years or so (depending on $ of rentals, obviously).   But I'd rather not wait years between acquisitions... thoughts?

Post: Rural investments future prospects

Account ClosedPosted
  • Portland, OR
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 16

An interesting question, and one I've thought about quite a bit.  I don't think the cultural change you're talking about - which I agree seems to be real and growing - will affect the midwest as much as it will affect rural properties around coastal cities which are just outside traditional commuting range.   I think the increases in those areas will resemble a kind of reverse bell curve, in which cultural values lie at the heart of the urban center on one end of the spectrum, and in the 2 to 50 acre properties which are an hour drive away on the other end.  The suburban sprawl in between will not see the gains of the other two (imho).