pulling permits - should I go by the book? Or go for lower cost?

Question

Hello,

I've recently purchased a fourplex in inglewood and am about to start demo on one of the units. I've come to find that there is asbestos and lead in thsi unit so the cost of rehab has just gone up considerably for the removal/demo. So my budget is really gotten super tight. This is only the ifrst unit that needs rehab. Got three more to go after this!

After chatting with the city buidling and safety, they highly recommended I have the contractors pulll permits for me because of liabilities, etc. This all makes sense but my contractor does everything sort of unofficially, so he can offer lower prices. It's extremely tempting to take him up on that offer. My friend referred me to him and has done a lot of rehab with this guy in the past, so I kind of trust him. But I still am not sure what do to. If I do everything by the book, I'll need the licensed contracters to pull permits and do everything legit, which will destroy my budget. It's already going to be super tight because of the asbestos removal. What are your opinions on this? How should I approach it? One part of me feels like the government gets in the way of everything and overcomplicates things, making costs skyrocket. The other part of me worries about the risks/liabilities with going the cheaper route. Any opinions? Seems like rehab is going to be soooo expensive.

thanks,

mario

Gary Reynolds · Answer

"If I do everything by the book, I'll need the licensed contracters to pull permits and do everything legit, which will destroy my budget"Then you overpaid for the property.

Steven Gesis · Answer

Mario, experience says pull permits, at-least in my career as you do a substantial amount of deals and renovate thousands of homes over the years, no win with cutting corners, does not matter if it is permits or any other part of your process, you want to build a process, a machine, something you can use over and over again, a cheat here and there will get you moving, but it is not sustainable. City/Municipality respects you and your work, you do the right thing, they tend to be more friendly, especially when you really need them whatever the case, building, housing, etc.... Why not just do it by the book, reduce your liability, let the city check your trades.

Manolo D. · Answer

Mario Furmanczyk Sometimes I tell myself, a union company is much more cheaper than a guy with a truck, lol. You can do permits yourself and make "hand" drawings, go to ladbs for instructions, I find their website to be really owner-builder friendly, poke around and read what it should be. It will be a lot of time spent in you learning but it's better than hiring anyone, and no engineer or architect required for your project. Listen to everyone and don't overthink, just pull the permit, it's not that hard, it makes bids more expensive because like you, contractors take production time and channel it to pulling permits, when we pull we lose at least 2 days, either way, someone has to spend that time, you for free or contractor for a fee. Don't believe that "inspection" takes more time, if you are doing a 2-3 day job, maybe, if you have more, then I don't believe there will be a "delay".

Mario F. · Answer

@Andrew Johnson Regaring the lead and asbestos abatement, I will definitely get the proper licensed contractor to do the job right with permits, etc. And I will get the certificate of completion as well. You're right, this is a big deal which is why I got the place tested in the first place. I wanted to make sure there wouldn't be any sort of risk. I'm trying to be extremely careful with the demo and abatement work. It's just that the other work, some of which I will do myself (floors, tiles, cabinet, etc)....is what I think won't need the permits. This will be after the abatement is settled.

Andrew Johnson · Answer

@Mario Furmanczyk Most of what you're talking about will get you into some bad situations. One child in the surrounding homes tests positive for "elevated lead", well, good luck proving it *wasn't* your fault. No permits, possibly using someone not certified is handling lead based paint issues, not disposing of things property, etc. I can just smell the lawsuit waiting to happen...

Jim Adrian · Answer

I think some permits you have to list the contractor responsible for the work. This is where you also hold money back or not provide final payment until work passes inspection and work is complete.

Jim Adrian · Answer

@Mario FurmanczykYou have now have let the cat out of the bag with the permit dept when you talked to them and they could be watching to see what you do. Now you have no choice but to pull permits and this is the right thing to do. It sounds like you are gutting the place and starting over. If so, permits are a must. The only extra cost is for the permits themselves. Any reputable contractor builds to code with or without permits; the company reputation is on the line. So you can call "BS" when the contractor says it cost more. As an owner of the building you can pull the permits yourself. Always get 3 or more quotes for the work to be done. As for drawings you can do this your self by hand with notes unless the city wants computer generated plans. If the house is built before 1978 you have to disclose lead paint in a disclosure in the lease, so simply add asbestos to the list. https://www.epa.gov/asbestoshttps://www.epa.gov/leadhttps://www.epa.gov/lead/real-estate-disclosure#propertyml

Manolo D. · Answer

Mario Furmanczyk Remember that asbestos abated materials are more expensive to dispose, so only cut affected ones. From your report, drywall was negative but joint compound was. The problem with asbestos is there is no escape, it is not like a plumbing problem when there is a leak, someone else can fix it. there is a ton of paperwork needed to be done, and the disposal chain of custody report plus air quality test result is your only ticket to get away with liability. How much were the figures that came in? I passed the report to my cheaper guy (not cheapest), and see what he spits out.

Manolo D. · Answer

Sandor Bogdan There is no trick to an inspector, it is what you must do, and if they are wrong, simply prove to them they are. Rarely they test your skill, and if you follow that, you're in the hole and they'll look closer, but that's all they could do -- cite a correction. I've had some pass inspectuon simply by sending pictures -- it shouldn't be legal but hey, if they say yes, i'm good with it.

Manolo D. · Answer

Mario Furmanczyk Did you contact that Alternative something company? It didn't seem like a big deal from that report you shared, or I might have read it wrong. If you will ask here, chances are doing it the legit will be your answer, but I have also dealt BS with BS. If you could not sleep at night, then don't do it, if you can, do it. Only you can know what your tolerances are. Shoot me an email of that result and i'll shop around for you, I don't think it will cost an arm and a leg, but if you are poking the wrong animal aka answering questions that you don't know the answer to is the first step to a high bid. I'll leave the liability issue to you (both asbestos exposure to tenants -- talk to insurance agents, and contracting), it's a big risk and a big ask money wise.