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Evicting renter from a vacation rental property
Hello All,
I have a one-bedroom vacation rental condo in Palm Springs that has been listed on AirBnB for about a year now. I have my first stressful problem: a vacation renter with a 44 day reservation who will NOT leave now that the reservation has expired. (Payment was received for first 30 days, but not for the remaining 14 days). This is all new, to me, and I believe I have a professional scammer on my hands.
Unfortunately Airbnb has not provided support, and is only helping me via email responses every 48 hours or so. The information from Airbnb has been confusing, convoluded and contradictory at best. The summary is that somehow Airbnb collected payment for the first 30 days rental, and was unable to collect payment for the remaining 14 days. The renter has been there 14 days without paying. Today is the date that this reservation expires. (Original reservation May 25-July 8th.)
The tenant is refusing to leave, and sent me a text message this morning that borders on blackmail. I believe he is a professional scammer, and I now need to hire an attorney.
Has anyone had to deal with a similiar situation, or have advice to offer? Does anyone have a landlord-tenant attorney recommendation for the Palm Springs area?
Thanks for reading, and thanks for potential suggestions/solutions.
Sincerely,
Cory
Hi Cory,
I have some experience in evicting tenants. Normally, the first notice is a 3-day pay or quit, not 30 day when he failed to pay the rent. At this point, do not collect any rent from the tenant or he would have satisfied the payment portion and you'd be back to square one. I truly hope that it was AirBNB and not the tenant who paid that or it'd be a long protracted battle.
If the tenant knows what he's doing and file a reply through the court system like mine was, you could be looking at 3 months before you can evict. Good luck!
@Aaron Mazzrillo Thank you for providing your prospective. I would not do any of the vindictive actions, although they did run through my head initially. My attorney already advised me against all that stuff, and was clear and basically echoed what you wrote above. That is good to hear that most of your evictions are straightforward. My fingers are crossed that this eviction will be swift, however time will tell. Good to hear Riverside judge is reasonable. You are right, in the end this will simply be a business loss. I must say I felt relieved once I knew an attorney was handling this. Its not cheap, but it is obviously necessary, and as you mention a cost of doing business. And I keep thinking of the thriller "Pacific Heights" and no landlord wants a situation to devolve in that way. Letter of the law all the way for me. Thanks for taking the time, and I will check out your blog post. -C
@Account Closed I have been trying to find out about that payment that was release yesterday...still no response from airbnb on that. It is very frustrating as you and others mentioned it affects the eviction process.
Some on this thread have stressed to focus on the legal side of things and deal with airbnb later. However airbnb is actually making this whole process more difficult/complicated. They still refuse to provide me with a direct staff contact phone number, so I am still communicating with them only through emails and phone calls when they call me (I can't call them back without going through the call center).
So...now airbnb may be screwing up my intention to serve notice to these squatters. I say "maybe" as I won't know until they either email me back, or call me to clarify ifthe payment was a customer service payment, or if it actually came from the squatter. They continue to muddy the waters on how to proceed. It is beyond frustrating. To be continued...
Lots of great updates on this thread, and @Cory T. you are handling things with a lot more clarity and patience than I would have!
I wanted to add a couple of thoughts to the approaching-the-press angle, for when and if you go that route. I should have mentioned in my previous post that, as a general rule, newspapers (and probably TV as well) won't write about landlord-tenant disputes. There's just too much he said/she said, and quite frankly, there's nothing all that newsworthy there; happens every day, all over the place. So keep that in mind - it'll be a short conversation at best if you approach reporters to talk about a problem with a tenant (especially seeing as you are essentially the landlord - there's never much sympathy for the landlord!).
I think your pitch here is focused on the uniqueness of the situation and on the growing pains associated with an emerging industry, not to mention the questionable tactics from airbnb. Deleting your conversations w/the renter???!!! That's crazy. (Tough to prove, also, but if you can demonstrate that other owners have had the same complaint and there's a pattern, you bolster the chances of a reporter hearing you out on that assertion.) So industry writers are probably a better route for you overall. Maybe even a crime angle, too - this is a new twist on an old crime, and it's interesting to know whether guys like this are taking advantage of a lack of jurisdiction, not to mention exploiting the apathy of a big company that's doing what it can to ignore a potential problem. I think airbnb and others are going to have to address this sooner or later, as the problem will only grow as criminals figure out they can take advantage of this scenario.
Bravo to you for your clear-headedness, and good luck getting rid of this jerk quickly!
Is there anybody that sues the tenant after the fact for loss of revenue, damages, ect. If there net worth was 10k I would spend 20k just to take it from them on principle. Anybody have any good landlord redemption stories? not trying to highjack thread, this stuff just boils my blood. I wish you the best.
@k.
@Account Closed Yes, indeed it was a "customer service payout",,,see below:
Jul 10 08:30:
Hi Cory,
I can absolutely confirm that our payments division within our customer experience team paid you $--- USD on July 8th, 2014 to your default --- payout method ending in ---.
The reasoning behind which, was not only for customer service support due to the inconveniences you're experiencing with M----- and his relative, but because his second reservation payment, which was supposed to be charged from his payment method on June 26th, 2014, did not go through.
To clarify, on long term reservations lasting longer than 30 days, we spread the reservation payment and payouts up each month. At the 30 day mark of M-----'s reservation his card was set to be charged, but for whatever reason, whether intentional by him or not, his payment did not go through and his card could not be charged. Due to this, we wanted to make sure you still received money for hosting, so we paid you from our account while we reached out to M-----for re-payment to us.
I hope the above explanation helps but if you need further clarification please let me know!
Kind regards,
-------
Best of luck man! I would have not been so calm.
Thanks for the update from airbnb. I love how they continue to refer to the situation as "hosting" when you've had a non paying squatter for 14+ days.
I'm glad to hear that the payment was indeed a customer service payout. That means the guest/squatter has no proof of payment for the last two weeks, and was not, as he put it: living in the domicile legally. I was worried that maybe it really was a credit card glitch (albeit with a crazy person). Then his claims of harassment would have some merit. You can't threaten to shut off utilities in CA for non-payment (now you know!). A scamming squatter pro will use stuff like that against you. They'll use it to answer the complaint and draw out the UD, or counter sue for harassment.
Hopefully your squatter isn't a pro. Let your attorney do the noticing asap and then file the UD. Sounds like your squatter is home a lot so process serving won't be delayed. :)
If you have all the tenant's info, you might want to dig in the tenant's background and see what you find.
My 2cents,
Joe Gore
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Cory T. : I just re-read your original post. Looks like his reservations were already expired. I'm not understanding how you didn't get the 14 days payment on the 31st day tho since Airbnb collects payment in advance from this guest.
But the fact that he doesn't want to leave when the reservations was due definitely confirmed that he's a squatter. Like someone said, lots of us could relate to your situation and hoping you could come out of this stressful situation.
Joanna: read Cory's post where airbnb replies below. It turns out they don't charge the the guest for the entire stay amount in advance. Only 30 days at a time. A guest could easily become a non-paying one after 30 days, but by that time they are living (and possibly entrenched) in your unit. IMO, that creates potential tenancy issues, at least in CA.
They seem to know who to contact to make airbnb jump
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-an-airbnb-guest-trashed-a-penthouse-2014-3?op=1
Originally posted by @Cory T.:
And I keep thinking of the thriller "Pacific Heights" and no landlord wants a situation to devolve in that way.
That movie instantly cured me of EVER being a landlord. ;-)
@Michaela G. Noted--thanks!
@Bob C. I may agree with you after this is all said and done. We'll see... ;-)
@Account Closed A wine stained comforter problem sounds dreamy. I wish. These squatters are likely both from Texas (Texas license plates, I don't have much more than one name, email, phone number, and whatever is on google), so they may have sought out a CA airbnb specifically due to the 30 day law. If they are running some internet scam/business out of my condo, they could be doing it in any state. My gut tells me they picked CA intentionally. Thanks for offering your services. Believe me, I have had to talk friends and family down from the edge on this one. Hence my reference to "Pacific Heights."
Sorry for all your hassle. The word EVICTION caught my eye since vacation rentals is my thing, and I can't even imagine! My suggestion: once you get through this - get out of AirBnB and go to HomeAway.com or VRBO.com if you continue the vacation nightly rental thing. I've been doing this for 10 years and have NEVER had this kind of issue with either of them. Along with good customer service, Home Away has lots of links to problem solving, legal matters and forms to use on these kinds of things...if not, they will try to send you to someone who will. Although most of my guests have been nightly (3 to 7 nights), I've had a couple of 30 - 90 day stays, and never encountered this. Through trial, error and experience, I created and now utilize an extensive Rental Agreement, along with requiring the guest's Drivers license, credit card and everything while requiring a hefty refundable security deposit if they want it back - they leave as they found it. It's what the hotels do, right? I agree with some, give Airbnb a poor rating on BBB and get the media involved...shame on Airbnb. Let me know if I can offer more assistance down the road in successful nightly rental vacation ownership! Good luck with this one!
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I'm so sorry to hear this is happening to you. I have dozens of rentals listed on Airbnb and never had too much problem, other than a few damage claims I had to fight with them about. Their customer service is mediocre at best. I've had lots of rentals that were 30+ days and never thought much of it. I've never had a problem so far, thank goodness. Because of this post, I'm going to have to figure out a way to get around the 30 day rule. Move them to a hotel for 1 night, then back in? Time to talk to a lawyer.
Please keep us posted. I'm very interested in how this turns out. It could happen to any of us at any time.
Moving out for one night won't do it in CA
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/whois.shtml
So I can go to California, check into a hotel for 31 days, then claim that I am a "resident" and just stay there without paying any more? Is that really true?
stephen
------------
Originally posted by @Cory T.:
@Account Closed I'm not sure what a skip trace is...like a background check?
RE: airbnb recovery...I'm just trying to get them on the phone at this point, but yes, I'll look into recovery from them for any damages. Unfortunately the police are unable to help until an eviction is served (I am still info gathering, and would love to find a loop hole). California is pretty darned lax comparted to other states unfortunately.
@Account Closed Deposit is minor...just $200.@Aly W. In Calif, 30 day+ stay apparently creates residency, even when booked through an obvious temporary lodging site such as airbnb. Thanks for the comment about the "comical template" it helps me take a step back and feel a bit of stress subside. ;-) I have no clue about FL laws, but def research beforehand...FL has got to be more logical than the CA laws.
I had a disagreeable tenant in NJ who deliberately took advantage of my generous nature. In that case, rather than let bygones be bygones after the eviction, I sued in civil court and won my case. The judgement was for $34,000. as I named every conceivable thing as a loss - with the idea that some would get contested away in court. But the tenant didn't show up. Mostly because the burden of proof of service is lower on amounts over $10,000. - and so a simple notice sent to the then-vacant rental house was sufficient - last known address. <g>
I was awarded the judgement and about every six months sent a letter of inquiry in to the court asking about the status. About ten or twelve years later that same tenant inherited a large house that she then sold. At settlement the title company cut me a check for a little over $58,000.
I have a disagreeable tenant being evicted next week. I'm going to try doing the same thing. I don't know how that all works in Florida - but I'm going to find out.. <g>
I make a nice friend and will do a lot to work with somebody in general. But don't come to me, ignore my friendship, deliberately start something, and then expect Queensberry Rules. <g>
stephen
-----------
Originally posted by @Rob Anderson:
Is there anybody that sues the tenant after the fact for loss of revenue, damages, ect. If there net worth was 10k I would spend 20k just to take it from them on principle. Anybody have any good landlord redemption stories? not trying to highjack thread, this stuff just boils my blood. I wish you the best.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:Moving out for one night won't do it in CA
Bob: Thanks for the link. I've looked at that booklet many time for other issues, but never paid any attention to the definition of tenant versus guest.
Cory: The link above from the Dept. of Consumer Affairs has some interesting info. It might be a long shot........ but perhaps your squatter isn't a tenant if they fall into one of the special situations. Is your vacation rental subject to the state hotel tax and/or have you been paying such a tax? I know Palm Springs has some permitting requirements for vacation rentals. Not that everyone is complying.......
@Stephen S. See below before you attempt to squat in a California hotel. According the info below, if you choose your hotel/motel carefully, you may be able to pull it off. :)
SPECIAL SITUATIONSThe tenant rights and responsibilities discussed in this booklet apply only to people whom the law defines as tenants. Generally, under California law, lodgers and residents of hotels and motels have the same rights as tenants. Situations in which lodgers and residents of hotels and motels do and do not have the rights of tenants, and other special situations, are discussed in the "Special Situations" sidebar below.
Special SituationsHotels and motels
If you are a resident in a hotel or motel, you do not have the rights of a tenant in any of the following situations:
- You live in a hotel, motel, residence club, or other lodging facility for 30 days or less, and your occupancy is subject to the state’s hotel occupancy tax.
- You live in a hotel, motel, residence club, or other lodging facility for more than 30 days, but have not paid for all room and related charges owing by the 30th day.
- You live in a hotel or motel to which the manager has a right of access and control, and all of the following is true:
- The hotel or motel allows occupancy for periods of fewer than seven days.
- All of the following services are provided for all residents:
- a fireproof safe for residents' use;
- a central telephone service;
- maid, mail, and room service; and
- food service provided by a food establishment that is on or next to the hotel or motel grounds and that is operated in conjunction with the hotel or motel.
HI All,
This whole ordeal has been exhausting...some weird stuff happening behind the scenes. Note to all--take a cache of web site pages, or screen shots or print out and save them once you are entrenched in a mess like mine.
Weird thing #1: My sisters twitter feeds were removed shortly after she blew up tweeting outrageous comments about airbnb.com on July 8th. These tweets are now back on her page.
Weird thing #2: I was advised to have my attorney send airbnb.com a preservation of evidence letter to recover the deleted conversations. I don't think my attorney had time to get to this today as I was unable to reach him. However I just checked my airbnb.com account and conversations (not sure if all of them) appear to be reinstated. They were not there as of this morning, and they appear to be there now. I wish I had reached my attorney at days end to find out if he was able to send this request to airbnb, or if airbnb reinstated on their own accord. (Maybe they found this forum?).
No papers have been served yet...that airbnb "customer service payment" altered our deadline...so hoping to have this happen in next 48 hours.
Will update more soon...
-C
@Account Closed
Thank you I will check out that link...FYI--I do have a permit through the City of Palm Springs.
Glad you got those conversations back. I would print to PDF right away and send a copy to your lawyer before Airbnb takes them down again.
@Cory T. T. like everyone said, I have lots of sympathy for you for having to go thru this awful situation. A few things I can think of that might be of help:
1. On Airbnb site, there are Groups and one of them that is very active and closely related to Airbnb is the SFHomeSharers. Are you a member of that group? If you are not, join now. And if you are, put all this info you put in there on that site. You will have lots of responses and I"m sure Airbnb monitors that group since it is on their very site.
2. I hate to say this, but Carolyn Said of SF Chronicle is the one who gets very excited over any bad publicity on Airbnb. So if you email her, I think you'll get her attention right away. If you just search her name, I"m sure you'll find her email address.
I just got an inquiry to stay for 6 months and now I cringe to think what could happen if I don't screen extremely well. Your experience has surely taught us lots of lesson. I just told the person I need paystub, employer's letter and credit report (she's from the UK but has been here for 2 years).
Keep us posted and if there is anything I could help with, please let me know. That could have easily been me.
California hosts/landlords who have vacation rentals might want to look at the actual Civil Code (http://www.experteviction.net/civil-code-1940) in addition to the Dept. of Consumer Affairs booklet linked above. The code is a little more detailed. Unless you are running a hotel/motel facility with services (maid service, food establishment, central phone), a 30-day stay in a typical vacation rental appears to create a tenancy. This means that conflicts involving payment and vacating the unit become a civil matter, requiring a court ordered eviction. So if someone stays in your unit beyond 30 days and doesn't leave and doesn't pay, you can't just call the police. I wonder if airbnb is disclosing this 30-day issue to hosts when they sign up. IMO, with so much rental scamming/squatting going on, at the very least they should be making it clear that renting your unit for more than 30 days puts you at risk becoming a landlord with a tenant if a conflict arises. I'd like to see what guarantee they come up with for that issue. :)
Additionally, you can't go around it by ending the tenancy at 29 days and then reregistering the guest. The lawmakers already thought of that work-around and wrote law to prevent it.