Tenant left with a PGW bill in excess of $5k

[Tom Hick]

Tenant left with a PGW bill of $5000 plus.

I am in Landlord Cooperation Program but still unsure if a lien will go against my property since the amount might of accrued before entering in their program.

Tenant is demanding security deposit and attorney said to send certified letter stating no return of deposit until matter with PGW is settled with proof of documentation.

Anyone ever have this happen? PGW will not give me her bill statements and said she was on a Medical Hold program that was renewed every 30 days.

[Nathan Gesner]

How in the world do you build a bill that large? Even if she used $1,000 a month, that would take five months of non-payment. This sounds like a year or more of failing to pay.

I would contact the utility company and determine whether they can place a lien against the property. It doesn't make sense in my mind because it's not her property and it's not your utility bill, but I've seen stranger things.

This is a good time to follow the advice of an attorney.

[PJ M.]

Being part of the LCP is supposed to prevent things like this from happening.  As long as the entire balance is from the time you were in the LCP, this is a residential property, and you responded to any emails/phone calls/letters from PGW, you should be protected from a lien on the property.  

You mention it might have accrued before entering their program.  If that is the case, then yeah, it stays with the property and you're going to have to collect from the tenant.  The LCP is not retroactive, it's from the time of registration forward.  PGW may also want the issue resolved before they will turn on gas service for a new tenant.

@Nathan Gesner natural gas service, in Philly, is provided by the Philadelphia Gas Works which is a publicly owned utility service.  It's treated the same as how a water utility is in many parts of the country.  The bill is with the property, not the tenant/consumer.  It's a lienable item here.

[Nathan Gesner]

@PJ M. well, that's a bummer.

When a utility stays with the property, the Landlord should monitor it to ensure payment. A $5,000 bill shows that this Landlord hasn't been keeping an eye on it for a year or more.

Hard lesson to learn.

[PJ M.]

@Nathan Gesner That's what the LCP does.  When a landlord signs up for that, they are entering a cooperation program with the utility.  They agree to respond and provide access when the utility needs access for shutoff, meter reading, maintenance, etc.  The one good thing about the program is it puts the onus back on the utility for monitoring and enforcement.  The utility is to notify the landlord if/when there is a problem and it absolves the landlord of the lien if they cooperated when requested...as long as the landlord provided the access when requested.  There's, I believe, a 10 day response window for the landlord after being contacted.  If they aren't part of the program, there's a chance for big problems.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

How in the world do you build a bill that large? Even if she used $1,000 a month, that would take five months of non-payment. This sounds like a year or more of failing to pay.

I would contact the utility company and determine whether they can place a lien against the property. It doesn't make sense in my mind because it's not her property and it's not your utility bill, but I've seen stranger things.

This is a good time to follow the advice of an attorney.

 this is so very common in many markets were utls run with the land not the tenant.. also in many jurisdictions they simply will not turn off the water elec or gas for non payment.

you should see all the bills that banks and other lenders have to pay when they sell these assets.. I have seen them over 10k on a 7k house bank had to bring in 3k to close.. on top of the probably 80 to 100k they lost on the mortgage  . I ran into this personally in Detroit when I foreclosed on a few of my CA borrowers ( failed at landlording)   and had bills of 3 to 6k each.. their tenants never paid.. 

these are the deep dives one needs to look into before choosing a market to be a landlord in. 

[Tom Hick]

@Nathan G.

Of course I agree with being on top of the utilities. This is the first time in 28 years of owning this property this has happened.

Water utility I always paid for my tenants. This tenant was vetted with making $178,000/annually. Just late payments with always giving late fee applied. She claimed she had cancer after paying a year in advance and everything was in order from 2/2016 tenancy.

I am waiting on response from certified letter of not returning security deposit.

[Bob B.]

@Tom Hick Did the tenant pay one year in advance? 

[Tom Hick]

Yes she did pay the first year in advance 

[Tom Hick]

Yes she did pay the first year in advance Bob.   

[Tom Hick]

The response didn’t go well with tenant receiving letter of not returning security deposit.  

She has now threatened to take me to court that PGW gave me information fraudently and sent an ebill of a zero balance, However, PGW once again has told me and my p poetry manager that her balance is $5,143.    

He also told me that I am in the Landlord Protection Program that there will be no lien on house.   I asked for documentation and he said they don’t do that.

Very unsettled as i get text after text of her stating that She demands her security deposit back and how all the roof leaks and rodent problems which a small mouse in a 100 year old house which is immaculate.  

[Marc Winter]

First, never mind about the tenant's threat to take you to court because PGW sent you a bill she disagrees with or any of the other issues stated.  Just make sure to send out the proper notification as per your state l/t laws regarding the security deposit in the time frame allotted.   

Second, how on earth does a utility company let anyone build up a $5k+ overdue bill?  Now that is something to consider going to court with the company for.  (I understand trying to sue a utility company is a... challenge.)

[Tom Hick]

Just was notified her attorney is a Philadelphia Ultility Specialist that went to Harvard    Her quotes in PGW and Public Utilities Commision are not what concerns me,  It’s still about the corruption of a monopolized gas company that has given me all her information on medical hold and no proof i won’t have a lien.   

[Paulette Midgette]

Interesting article directly related to this topic.  I highly recommend all renting in Philadelphia read.

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/business/energy/3rd-circuit-throws-out-landlord-philadelphia-gas-works-liens-lawsuit-20180720.html