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All Forum Posts by: PJ M.

PJ M. has started 7 posts and replied 170 times.

Post: Neighboring condo owners not paying their dues

PJ M.Posted
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 174
  • Votes 122

condo fees are automatic liens in PA.  What you'll want to do it send them a collection letter, then, if/when they don't pay you file for a judgement for all the existing fees + fines + court costs.  It's best to get a lawyer for this.  Collections and court cases require specific language, actions, and timeframes for what is done.  Getting a judgment will prevent the property from being sold or refinanced.  If the investor or other owner have the property in their name, it will also prevent them from getting a mortgage on any new property until this is resolved.  

Post: Section 8 vouchers? Is it illegal to say no?

PJ M.Posted
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 174
  • Votes 122
Originally posted by @Patti Robertson:

I hear so many landlords say this, but it makes no sense.  Landlords do not submit properties for inclusion into the SEC 8 program.  Rather, SEC 8 is called the Housing CHOICE Voucher because the tenant chooses the property. The inspection almost never happens until the landlord accepts the tenant, the landlord and tenant complete their portions of the required paperwork, and the Housing Authority and landlord agree on a rent amount.  Only when all that is done will the inspection be scheduled, and then it doesn't mean much. The inspection is just a snapshot in time for that one period that says on that day, when the inspector was there, the house passed inspection.

Some Housing Authorities are doing some pre-inspections, but they aren't common. One of our HAs is testing the program right now and they are hand selecting landlords and PMs who they know are experienced to test the system.  It could be a waste of time, because we may end up with a non-SEC 8 applicant first.  The benefit is that they will have two lists, one of properties already inspected, and one that haven't been.  The move in time should be within 2 weeks if the house has been pre-inspected.  


All of my SEC 8 applicants pay an application fee, just like everyone else.

Originally posted by @PJ M.:

 Actually, simply stating that the home has not been inspected for inclusion in the section 8 program is enough to let the potential tenant know that there's no chance to get into the property.  

With every area managing their requirement individually it makes sense here in Philly.  Your area may be different.  Let's lay out how it works in Philly.  

A tenant applies to my property.  Source is income is a protected class so I can not ask about that as part of my screening process.  So they fill out an application and they pass.  I give them my holding form to sign, request a 1 month holding fee which then turns into the security deposit for the unit, and my holding agreement requires that the lease be signed within 10 days of approval.  

Right there we usually hit the first roadblock.  The reason is that in Philly, if the landlord is not currently part of the Section 8 program, there is no way to meet those deadlines.  Before being permitted to rent in the Section 8 program a Philly landlord must attend an orientation class which is give once per week.  After completing the orientation class the landlord needs to schedule a time to complete the training class that is given.  Now, this also doesn't take into account the requirements that a landlord be "local" to the property or have property management that is local to the property, among other things.  After passing the training class the landlord is then permitted to work with the HUD office as a potential landlord, discuss the lease/holding fee documentation, and schedule an inspection. Here, HUD needs to approve the documents that the tenant will sign.  

Now, as a landlord I've got a tenant who is approved but cannot hold the property, pay the fee, or sign the lease within 10 days.  They are, in effect, excluded from being able to rent my property if I am not currently part of the Housing Choice program here in Philly. I am now forced to move to the next available candidate who can move in the quickest.  The entire process was a big waste of time and money.  the tenant wasted their time filling out the application and I wasted my time processing it.  This is why it is a pretty standard thing for a tenant to call and ask if the landlord takes vouchers.  Now, that's a loaded question as the answer could be discriminatory.  The correct answer is that you take all payment types however the house has not been inspected for inclusion in the program.  That single sentence lets the potential tenant know that the landlord is not part of the voucher program.  As I mentioned in my other reply if the tenant pushes it and asks something like "would you join the program" the answer is sure but you rent to the first approved applicant that can move in the quickest.  That clarifies for the potential tenant that there is no way you are going to hold the property off the market for a month, without a holding fee paid, while attending orientations, training classes, and getting paperwork approved all before even an inspection can be completed.

so while you are technically correct that "landlords do not submit properties for inclusion into the SEC 8 program", it's a way to let the potential tenants know that the property hasn't been inspected and that you, as a landlord, aren't part of the program.

Post: Section 8 vouchers? Is it illegal to say no?

PJ M.Posted
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 174
  • Votes 122

@Patti Robertson you're correct and in Philly source of income is a protected class.  It has been for well over a decade.  I'm shocked that a PM company would actually say that they don't take the vouchers.  It's pretty standard knowledge to do as @Greg M. mentions.  You find another reason to deny.  Actually, simply stating that the home has not been inspected for inclusion in the section 8 program is enough to let the potential tenant know that there's no chance to get into the property.  Section 8 here requires that the landlord attend a briefing and then a training class before being permitted to be part of the program.  After that's done they then can get the property inspected .  That process takes way too long.  If the tenant presses you simply add that you would be happy to look into what it takes to get into the program and getting the property inspected however you will rent to the first qualified applicant that can move in the soonest.  They understand that with that requirement, being in the program means they won't get accepted.  Couple that with a requirement that you don't process applications until the application fee is received and no one on the program is going to waste your time or their money.   

Post: CASH OUT REFI CONUNDRUM

PJ M.Posted
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 174
  • Votes 122

Hi @Jared Kotler I was shopping around a non-conforming loan to a bunch of local lenders about a month ago.  My difference was that the properties are in my personal name.  Since I had a non-conforming loan in the mix most lenders were looking to loan on the entire portfolio as a commercial loan.

I was getting similar quotes to what you are getting now with the exception of the points.  I was pretty consistently getting quotes for 1 point.  However, everything else was right around 6% and I was getting quotes of 20-25 years with a 5 year lock.  I never pulled the trigger on it but I might pop back to get updated rate quotes from them just to see if there was a drop in the last 30 days for Commercial rates.

It's anecdotal but wanted to give you some recent experience from someone in the same boat, just not an LLC.

Post: Rental Utilities- who should pay?

PJ M.Posted
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 174
  • Votes 122

This depends on local customs as well as local laws.  When I started 20 years ago in the Philly area, all utilities were paid for by the tenant except for water.  That was kept in the landlord's name and paid for by the landlord.  Now, it still remains in the landlord's name (as it is a lienable item here), but the costs are paid for by the tenant.  

We've also got laws in place that prevent charging tenants for utility usage unless they are separately metered.  I believe the New York City has a similar requirement.  Get to know the area you are in.  See what the competition is offering/requiring and most importantly, learn your local laws to see if they have requirements you must follow.

Post: Property insurance for unoccupied rehab property?

PJ M.Posted
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 174
  • Votes 122

@Melonie Dickson I can give you the name of my local agent if you like.  He insures my occupied rentals and has quoted me prices for rehabs and vacant units for other properties.  Send me a message and I'll give you his name/number.

Other options which aren't being mentioned here are:

Allow the tenant use of the basement and add it to the lease.  If the basement and 1st floor are wired together and both are included in the lease agreement, then the tenant is responsible fro their use.

When the tenant vacates you have some options.  Rewire to put basement and 2nd floor together, rewire the basement to be metered by itself (so each floor has its own meter) and you just pay for basement and 2nd floor, or the cheapest option is to leave it as is and take the basement + 1st floor unit for you and rent out the 2nd floor unit.

@Wendy Home now it is up to you to decide if it is worth it.  As @Jim Cummings says it is much easier to get this when doing the application process.  That's when I collect all information.  I check all ID's at application time.  Otherwise how do you know the person you are running the background check on is the person that's filling out the paperwork?  Picture government ID, that's how.  If you haven't seen the licenses to verify the people in front of you match the government issued ID, and that matches what was filled out on the application then I would not be letting them in to my property.  

Post: Should you create LLC before buying the property ?

PJ M.Posted
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 174
  • Votes 122

Questions like this get asked a lot around here so the search may be your friend.

Ultimately though, I think the answer is..it depends.  It depends on what you are looking to do with the property, where you are in your investing career, and a ton of other things.

I like to describe it this way. The LLC is a tool. It has its specific purpose and it has other purposes for which it can be beneficial. It's like a hammer. A hammer is a tool. It has it's specific purpose, banging in nails, and it has other purposes for which it is useful; removing nails, closing a can of paint, etc.

Does that mean when I am going to paint a room I would go buy a hammer?  Probably not.  While the hammer is a useful tool to have, it wouldn't be needed specifically for my painting job.  I can use my rubber mallet, the handle of my screwdriver, or in a pinch I've even been known to just stand on the paint can lid to get it to seal.  So no, I wouldn't just get a hammer if I was going to be painting.  If I had a hammer (and couldn't find my rubber mallet) I would bring it along, but I wouldn't just get a hammer because I was painting.

Whether you need an LLC is really dependent on what you are looking for and your specific situation.

Post: Buildium... Ugh, should I use QuickBooks

PJ M.Posted
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 174
  • Votes 122

@Jeff Bridges Thanks for the example.  Yeah, I've been using Quicken for about 20 years and kept with the system I had in place.  I knew about the tags but never researched it since my system worked.  It might be time to switch over as this seems much easier and more intuitive.  Thanks for the example.