Should I update original electrical box?

Question

I closed on a 3/2 1039 square foot SFR this week .... I'll get a tenant via lease/option.  It has its original 1957 electrical panel which is functional minus the following according to inspector:

â€¢ A breaker is serving two circuits, which could overload the circuit. This condition should be evaluated by an electrician.
â€¢ The green 30 amp Edison fuses are over-sized for the circuits wiring size. Recommend 20 amp fuses be used in lieu of the 30 amp fuses.
â€¢ We could not determine the point at which the panel is grounded. Typically, this ground is to a water pipe located at the main, at a water heater, or to a hose bib, but we could not find it at any of these locations. Therefore, it should be traced by an electrician or the panel should be regrounded.

I got a bid of $1300 to update to today's standards ... my first inclination is to do the complete update but wanted to get feedback from others.  Should I go ahead and redo it all or simply make fixes to current panel? Is this a reasonable bid to update to 2009 standards?  Should I worry about liability in having a 1957 electrical panel?  Thanks in advance .... :D

Jon Holdman · Answer

I too would be inclined to upgrade this box.  This just sounds like a mess.  Correcting bad wiring is always a good idea, IMHO, because you reduce the risk of a fire.  Do get this done by a licensed electrician, and get permits.  Do get multiple bids.

Account Closed · Answer

Fuses? Yeah, I'd upgrade to breakers.

You can get a split breaker if you've got two circuits on a breaker, but as far as I know you can't do that with fuses.

Your wiring sounds like it is dangerous to me. Fuses aren't so good with tenants, because they are prone to do things like put in too large a fuse or a penny if they keep overloading the circuit.

If I ever upgrade the box, I have the electrician run me a couple of new circuits to the kitchen. Old houses aren't wired to cope with all the modern electrical appliances.

Upgrading to breakers will help a little with insurance; not enough to pay for the new box, but every little bit helps. It also helps if you don't burn your house down in an electrical fire.

Account Closed · Answer

Upgrading will also help your resale when you get ready to sell. Buyers might shy away from fuses, or expect a nice price reduction (I hope you got a nice reduction because of the wonky electrical panel)

Jon Holdman · Answer

$1300 seems reasonable, though, again, get multiple bids, and be sure exactly what's included.  It may be worthwhile to speak with the city and see exactly what's required.  I know the latest code is requiring arc-fault breakers for bedrooms.  If those aren't included, and you're force to put them in, there will be an extra expense.

Here's a lesson I learned the hard way.  Before you choose a contractor, get their state and city license numbers.  Could be either or both, since this varies from state to state.  Call the city and state and verify those licenses are valid and up to date.  I hired a plumber who had a current state license but his city license had not been renewed.  It turned into a huge hassle, when a phone call ahead of time would have avoided the issue.

Jeffrey K. · Answer

Since you are doing this on a lease option to a tenant, you should do the work at that price.  You do not want any problems with them getting loans or closing on the deal.

I work on 100+ year old buildings all day and the first thing we do when we buy one is get "sparky," the wire master, in there to evaluate and update anything needed.  It might cost more up front, but it will save you time and sleep.

Brian Levredge · Answer

In general, these days people have a lot of equipment like computers, entertainment centers, plasmas, etc., that eat a lot of juice.  Window AC units do as well.  You can overload the circuits pretty easily since the odds are half the outlets will be on one breaker and the other half on another breaker in an older 100 amp set up.

This doesn't mean the house will burn down.  It just means you will have a pissed off tenant who is always rebooting the breakers because his/her gear is overloading them.  You can always add a 200 amp panel later putting it right next to the 100 amp and turn the 100 amp into a sub panel.

Jason Trepins · Answer

100 amps is fine for 1200SF house unless something out of the ordinary is there. 
spend the money somewhere else

Brian Levredge · Answer

You've gotten some good responses here.  I'll add my .02 as well since I know a fair amount about this.  First, your price to replace sound pretty reasonable to me, especially if the electrician is putting in a 200 amp panel.  That will alleviate the double tapped breakers/fuses, and so forth.  Any electrician should run a driven grounding rod close to the panel and clamp on properly.  In addition, there should also be a cold water bond run to a water line, preferably where the water supply enters the building.

To expand on what Steve said, it sounds like you have pretty old wiring and the odds are that you don't have a ground wire run to all the outlets.  The work the electrician does will ground the panel but not the outlets.  While having GFCI's above the kitchen and bath counters is a very good idea, it is also even better to make sure the other outlets are individually grounded to the boxes they are inside of.  This can be done by installing a screw inside the box and running a short piece of copper wire from the outlet to the back of the box.  The same testing device that trips a GFCI also shows if there is an open ground on an outlet.  You can get it at Home Depot for around $5.

Lastly, make sure that once you are signed off by the city that you contact your insurer and show them the paper work from the inspections and the electrician.  It should qualify you for a discount on your policy.

Bill Gulley · Answer

Absolutely do it! Great price for new pannel, breakers, rewire, GFI and hard wired smoke detectors to current code. I suggest Square D, reliable and the Home Package is very afforable @ 200 Amp service. Who is your electrician and does he travel? Bill

Steve Babiak · Answer

Other things that should be added to the list to consider:

When upgrading the panel, you might only have 60 amp service line from the utility pole to the house.  If so, then you end up with a 60 amp panel or you have to change that service line as well as the panel.

Some of that older wiring has 2-wire lines feeding 2-prong outlets.  If you have those in kitchen and baths and other wet areas ... a GFCI is needed for those areas, and there must be a ground wire for a functional GFCI.  Some people think that the "test" button on the GFCI is the way to test, but a good inspection will use a separate device for testing the GFCi.  The "test" button will often trip the GFCI without a ground wire present, but those separate testers won't trip the GFCI unless it is actually grounded.  So make sure that the GFCI in wet areas has a proper ground; you have a possible situation where new wiring to those areas will be needed.

Be sure that your electrician will have the work inspected by an independent electrical inspection underwriter.

Should I update original electrical box?

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