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Updated about 8 years ago, 09/01/2016
Renters - Boyfriend wants to throw her and her daughter out
So they are not married and the daughter is not biologically his though he's on the birth certificate and claims her. But the boyfriend is cheating on her (Jessica) and now wants her to move out so he can move the new girl in. Also wants his car back. She (Jessica) has no place to go, no family to move in with and lost her job a month ago. They've been paying rent on time.
I told her that new girl would have to sign the lease but that I thought she (Jessica) has a right to live there since she is on the lease now. I told her to tell him that if he thinks he's going to start paying only half the rent that they would both be evicted and that they don't want that on their record. I told her I was sorry this was happening to her and that I'd look into it.
Need advice. Thinking of hiring a property manager as my other renters (different house) have been having the Church pay their rent for past 3 months, I'm sure the Church is about done with paying for them. I think I'm a softie.
Thanks for any advice.
Don't beat yourself up too much. It great that you have a heart to help people... HOWEVER I assume you posted on here because you know you need to be more firm with your tenants. Dealing with them as a professional and not as a friend. And you would be right...
I would highly recommend not getting involved in the drama of your tenants lives. Weather one person is cheating with another or lost their job or whatever is not your concern. Don't get involved in their lives other than what is spelled out in the contract. Stick too it.
You can be a good landlord!!!
If she (Jessica) is on the lease as you stated, then neither the boyfriend or you could just throw her out. She has a legal right to be there. Personally, I wouldn't get in the middle of their domestic squabble. Who gets the car and who's the biological father of the child is, quite frankly, all irrelevant from a landlord's perspective. I wouldn't even discuss things like that with a tenant. Just tell them that you're not going to get in the middle of it and that all you're concerned with is that they hold up their end of the lease agreement and continue to pay the rent in full. If they fail to do that, that's when you'll get involved and they'll be notified of your involvement when they get the eviction notice.
If you need drama watch TV. Not your issue and the less you stay involved the better. Whatever you don't let anyone off the lease since it decreases your chances of collecting rent.
You did pretty much the right thing. Stick to your landlord perspective on what happens with the lease. You can even suggest agencies that might help her figure out her rights like legal aid. You might go back to her with your position on the lease but that is all the looking into it I would do. Drama like this is only for TV and family, tenants need to figure it out on their own.
If you go with a PM you have to make the tenants lose your contact information or redirect them when they come to you as they will since they know you. Your other option is to back off on the personal aspect of the relationship. for the tenants where the church is paying take action as soon as you don't see rent. Sometimes people need to be told to move. I had one tenant who turned down an subsidized apartment because the bedrooms were too small and says now they have no money to avoid a rent raise. I am going to feel bad about the rent raise but not so bad I don't do it.
You know way to much about your tenants as others have mentioned. We only make one person the responsible party on lease agreements typically the one with the best credit/income. It's inevitable that they will be evicted or hopefully vacate soon.
Thanks so much for all this advice. I know I need to stand back and I know she's really desperate for anything that will save her. But this advice helps me on how to word it to her that I cannot help her situation.
The lease is over at the end of January so at that time we will do a new lease probably with new girl. But I'm not sure if new girl works, if not can I make him move out? I don't think he will qualify on his income alone.
Being a Landlord = Being a Hardened individual
This is a business. Stay out of their troubles or you will make them your own IMHO.
Yes you can make him move out, make sure you abide by the lease and the laws in your jurisdiction.
They entered into a (hopefully) binding legal contract with you - stick to that & don't even get into anything personal! I had to serve a 3-day on a tenant (partner bailed, etc.) & although I certainly sympathized with her situation, I don't run a shelter. It's my business. That's why there's a contract: to keep business, business & personal, personal.
As people have said, if Jessica's name is on the lease then she has a legal right to stay there. Even married most landlords have had both my wife and myself sign leases, meaning neither one of us can get rid of the other without their consent. As long as you are receiving all the rent that is due, it is not your problem. But given how involved you are, I would inform her that her name on the lease gives her the legal right to stay.
When it comes time to do a new lease in January, then you need to re-qualify them and deal with whether or not they meet your standards. If they meet your income qualifications, then great. If not, move on.
Its great advice that you're getting above. But I get the sense that you have a couple of houses that are a bit at risk and that you don't have a bunch of other ones to offset these.
So while I agree that we shouldnt' deal with tenants stuff, the reality is that you're trying to get paid and, early on in our investing, its really critical that we do whatever it takes to get that rent coming in.
When I first started, I had a rule that I would not pick rent up and rent had to be mailed - no exceptions. But I had a difficult payor that was always several weeks late. I started meeting them at a mcdonalds to collect the rent. And this guy wanted to talk all day. But I got my money. And I needed it. It made sleeping much better. But it cost me about an hour or two every single time.
Sometimes, those are the things we have to do when we're starting out. Its about making it work.
In this case, I don't think there's anything wrong with finding out whats going on with your tenants. Now that you know, you can control the situation much better. What you want to do here is figure out what the net result you want to have happen is and then figure out how to make it so.
If the girlfriend and her kid can't afford the place, then you do want them gone. And if the current dummy and his new girlfriend will be decent tenants, then you want to get them qualified and keep them there. Ultimately, the biggest enemy of a landlord is TURNOVER. Avoid it at all cost.
Personally, I would talk to the tenant you want to keep (i.e. the boyfriend) and find out whether the new gf works. Then tell him you'd be willing to keep him and allow her to move in provided she fill out the app so you can run all her stuff.
If they provide it and if everything is to your satisfaction, then I'd work with the current gf and let her know that she should start looking for a place when the lease is up because you will not be able to renew her lease since she doesn't have a job.
The only real catch I see here is that both parties have the right to live at the house til the lease is up. Noone (i.e. you or the boyfriend) will be able to evict her until that lease is up.
Make sure you know your landlord/tenant laws. Given the drama you seem to have tangled yourself up with, I would give proper notice that you are not renewing their lease at end of lease term, then let them know once they've figured out their situation, the party wanting to stay can submit the proper application for the next year.
If they make it easy for you, like come to you and say guy and new girl can both qualify independently for a new lease and old girlfriend agrees to sign release and move out, then I'd work with them to do so. If not, that's not your fault, so let them work it out without getting you involved.
Any unrelated adults should have to qualify on their own in order to be on the lease. That way, if one moves out, you know the other one can pay the rent. Not knowing if he can qualify on his own means you may need to re-evaluate your screening process.
Mike thank you for being so precise. And thanks everyone for all the tips. I remember now she said the girlfriend works with him so she does have a job. I'll post back here as things happen. I really hate drama, give me boring any day.
Never get involved with tenant's issues and problems. They will only create headaches for yourself and cause you to deviate from your policies and procedures due to the human being emotions we all have.
This is an unfortunate situation for Jessica. However, as stated, if both of them are on the lease. Neither of them can kick the other out. If they stop paying rent, the whole household will be evicted. I would keep it at that and they will need to figure it out on their own.
If new girl wants to move in, she needs to be processed as any new tenant and get approved. I doubt current girlfriend is going to allow new girl to move in while she's still there. So it's up to them to figure out the how. All you need to worry about in this situation is payment on time.
Originally posted by @Lynn McGeein:
Make sure you know your landlord/tenant laws. Given the drama you seem to have tangled yourself up with, I would give proper notice that you are not renewing their lease at end of lease term, then let them know once they've figured out their situation, the party wanting to stay can submit the proper application for the next year.
If they make it easy for you, like come to you and say guy and new girl can both qualify independently for a new lease and old girlfriend agrees to sign release and move out, then I'd work with them to do so. If not, that's not your fault, so let them work it out without getting you involved.
Any unrelated adults should have to qualify on their own in order to be on the lease. That way, if one moves out, you know the other one can pay the rent. Not knowing if he can qualify on his own means you may need to re-evaluate your screening process.
This is a perfect post! I 100% agree. For unmarried tenants, I'd require each person make at least 2.5x monthly rent on their own while also passing credit/background. That way if 1 moves out, the other can still pay on their own.
For married couples, I'd do 3x monthly rent.
Whenever a tenant has asked that I remove a person from the property they are renting (boyfriend, girlfriend, wife, cousin, illegal subletting roommate, etc) I simply tell them that I cannot remove specific people, if it's an issue I will remove ALL occupants.
What do you think of this email?
QUOTE:
Hi Jessica,
I looked into your situation as it's just as I thought. While I am very sympathetic to your situation, there's not anything I can do from a landlord's point. You both are on the lease so you have the right to live there until January 31, 2016 when the lease is up. Anything done by him before then will be a civil or police matter.
When the lease is up there will have to be a new lease signed and with the new situation of you probably moving out on or before January 31, there will have to be a new application filled out from him and the new girlfriend if she is going to try to live there. They will both have to qualify to stay there as far as income and background checks, just like we did when you both moved in.
I will not accept 1/2 payments so you might want to inform him that partial payments in an attempt to get you to pay half for December and January payments will only start the eviction process on you both. You don't want that on your record as it will make it hard to get another rental on down the road.
I also will not do month to month so once the lease is up they will need to have returned a new application and been approved or will need to have moved out if not approved. Let me know if you are going to give him a copy of this or if I need to write him separately. If so, have him email me so I have his email address or if he'd rather I send the application to the house.
I am very sorry that your family has broken up this way but there is nothing I can do as long as the lease in place and the rules therein haven't been broken.
/QUOTE
Do I need to change anything?
I would send an email to BOTH of them, avoiding having her relay information (aka, being your "representative"). As it is near the end of their lease, send notification as you normally would at lease renewal. Reference in the notice that they both have the right to be in the property until the end of the term. Ask them to notify you by X date whether or not they wish to renew. Let them know if one of them is leaving and a new tenant is moving in that person will have to submit a complete application along with your application fee by X date.
As it seems that she is the only one that told you he would only be paying half the rent, don't address that issue until he actually does it. If he does only pay half, send notice reminding them that they are "jointly and severally liable" and that if full rent is not received, you will be serving them a three day notice (include late fee if after the 3rd). Don't accuse him of an intention of not paying in full. If you do, he will assume you are listening to her and on her side, thus keeping you enmeshed in their relationship.
Hope that helps!
Thank you so much Cindy, I've printed out what you wrote. 5 years of doing this and have not had anything like this come up, it really threw me for a loop.
Thanks everyone for all the advice.
Any update @Brenda Logan? Did you get the full rent for December, or just half of it?
That drama continued until last month. Yes I always got the rent though. In January we re-signed the lease but evidently the affair was still going on. She moved out in February, Boyfriend went overseas to work and new girlfriend moved in. I didn't even know her name. Had everyone agree to void previous lease and make a new one with the new girlfriend in April. Hindsight for this casanova I shouldn't have added the 2nd girlfriend to the lease, he was paying all the bills anyway. BF gets back from overseas and gets back together with 1st girlfriend so 2nd gf moves out but is now stalking them. She comes over at all hours of the night ringing the doorbell. They changed the locks without telling me. They call the cops on her but she always leaves before they get there. Then the cops tell my renters what I end up telling them also, she's on the lease not anything we can do. I had to keep telling Jessica that if I have to evict 2nd gf that bf would be evicted too because they were both on the lease and that it would make it hard to get another rental in the future.
So last month they stayed through the end of the month they paid rent on (July). I did a 3 day pay or quit notice on the door then took my house back. I talked to both gf's after that and said I considered the house abandoned and re-took possession of my house. That they left a little bit of stuff they could come get. I've kept the deposit and haven't heard from either in over 2 weeks. House has been repaired and I already have new renters in there.