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Tennant wants to have friend move in for longer than 30 days
Dear BP
I have a tenant is the only tenant tenant on her lease asking if a friend of hers can move in to the unit temporarily for more than 30 days. The lease says that she must gain owners permission if the guest is to stay for longer than 30 days. For a few reasons, we want to deny this request, but wanted to know how binding our denial would be. What if the tenant ignores our denial and moves the friend in anyway? Basically, Id like to know how much teeth does our lease have in light of larger oakland CA tenant law.
Any help would be much appreciated
thanks
#4 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
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#4 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
- Rental Property Investor
- Hanover Twp, PA
@Powell DiGangi, why deny the request? You have a VERY GOOD tenant who is trying to follow the lease and ask permission. That is EXACTLY the kind of tenant I would want to provide flexibility to because that is the kind of tenant I want to keep.
I would probably require a background check and then add this person onto the lease as an occupant rather than a tenant. In this way, they have rights to stay at the unit but are not a tenant. When the lease ends and a new lease is signed this person can be removed if they have moved out by then.
The reasons I might deny a request like this include a failed background check or if the unit is already at maximum occupancy.
If the landlord is paying any utilities that are based on usage such as water, then I might discuss a rent bump to compensate for the anticipated increase in usage and address that with the lease update adding the person as an occupant.
#3 Managing Your Property Contributor
I agree with Kevin. Apparently in "California: Guests become tenants when they stay for over 14 days within six months, or seven nights in a row.", so that can be problematic. Why does the guest need to stay for a month? Is it a friend visiting from overseas?
Quote from @Powell DiGangi:
My guest policy is no more than ten days per month for any given person, which covers a boyfriend/girlfriend staying over on the weekends or a family member visiting. 30 days is a long time. In fact, if someone stays in your property for 30 days, they can legally claim they are a resident and you can't kick them out without going through the eviction process. In California, that could take many months and tens of thousands of dollars.
Based on what you've shared, I would reject the request. If you choose to accept it, make them apply and pass your screening, add them to the lease, and charge extra rent to make it worth your trouble.
@Kevin Sobilo Thanks for your response. We have a few reasons to deny the request. We have had issues with this tenant in the past. Secondly, because of CA laws, we are afraid the friend is just going to move in and not leave and we have no recourse. There isn't any benefit to us to go through the extra work of background check, get lawyer to approve language etc. If anything it gives us a bigger problem down the road. We explored the idea of allowing it but for only 6months, but we think once the person is there for that long we can't enforce signed language about an exit date.
@Theresa Harris She claims its a friend who needs a place for a few months as she moves to the area. We have issues our tenant airbnb our place behind our back in the past, also going out of town for months on end and renting her place out while she travels, so this feels like one of those situations. We dont want another tenant in there.
@Nathan Gesner We want to deny the request, but trying to figure out how enforceable that is. If we draft a an addendum that says the person can stay but must leave in 6 months, is that enforceable?
@Nathan Gesner Can we legally deny and it have any teeth
#4 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
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#4 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
- Rental Property Investor
- Hanover Twp, PA
Quote from @Powell DiGangi:
@Kevin Sobilo Thanks for your response. We have a few reasons to deny the request. We have had issues with this tenant in the past. Secondly, because of CA laws, we are afraid the friend is just going to move in and not leave and we have no recourse. There isn't any benefit to us to go through the extra work of background check, get lawyer to approve language etc. If anything it gives us a bigger problem down the road. We explored the idea of allowing it but for only 6months, but we think once the person is there for that long we can't enforce signed language about an exit date.
I do not understand these concerns:
1. Why would you care if this person stays and doesn't leave? If you add this person as an occupant as I suggest then the tenant should be able to evict them if they don't leave and if you have the need to evict you would just be evicting both the tenant and occupant which is NO ADDITIONAL WORK FOR YOU EITHER WAY.
2. The benefit for you is keeping a tenant. Every action you take isn't meant to be gainful. If you're spending your time counting trivialities like this you are "tripping over dollars to pick up pennies".
A background check is basic and almost no effort and you can certainly pass any cost on to the tenant. You could also charge the tenant a reasonable fee for doing this lease modification if you wished to negotiate that with them.
Why would you need a lawyer to do a VERY basic lease addendum? If you aren't prepared to deal with very basic things you should re-evaluate your situation and work to get prepared or hire a PM. Look at this as a positive because maybe its highlighting your lack of preparedness to manage the property yourself.
Only you know how much teeth you have based on legality of your lease vs CA law. You should always be pro active and professional. Mom/pop days are over. Unfortunately Calif is a horrible place to be a landlord. I don't know the law specifically in your area but the ability to control your property is over (at least on the west coast). If you decide to allow this person you need to screen like you did the current tenant and add to the lease. I highly respect what Kevin is saying but in this case would lean towards Nathans response(that's just me). Both their responses are spot on and better than I could articulate. A simple business decision that's up to you.
Learned this the hard way. Screen and approve all residences over the age of 18. This "guest" will be a tenant in the eye of the law so then you should treat them as a tenant and properly screen them and have them added to the lease.
Ask me how I know haha
In my state (NY) you have to accept these sorts of requests unless you can find a valid reason not to. Everyone is entitled to sublet and a roommate. With that in mind I would run the roommate through background check and credit score.
#3 Managing Your Property Contributor
Quote from @Powell DiGangi:
@Theresa Harris She claims its a friend who needs a place for a few months as she moves to the area. We have issues our tenant airbnb our place behind our back in the past, also going out of town for months on end and renting her place out while she travels, so this feels like one of those situations. We dont want another tenant in there.
Then just explain that to the tenant. Her friend can stay with her for a few days, until she finds her own place (or stay in a BnB if she can't move in quickly). Also explain that you don't necessarily want her as a tenant and if she stays that long, then that is what happens.
#3 Managing Your Property Contributor
Quote from @Peter W.:
In my state (NY) you have to accept these sorts of requests unless you can find a valid reason not to. Everyone is entitled to sublet and a roommate. With that in mind I would run the roommate through background check and credit score.
What a nightmare situation.
Quote from @Powell DiGangi:
@Nathan Gesner Can we legally deny and it have any teeth
The law may require you to allow it if you are in California. I would start by denying the request. If the tenant pushes back, you can consider screening the individual and then adding them to the lease. I would not let them live there unless they were willing to sign the lease. When they are ready to leave, remove them from the lease.
Quote from @Peter W.:
In my state (NY) you have to accept these sorts of requests unless you can find a valid reason not to. Everyone is entitled to sublet and a roommate. With that in mind I would run the roommate through background check and credit score.
How do you combat this? such as after running through background and credit score would you have them sign an addendum to be apart of the lease?
My lease states that the leassee is responsible for all guests, so mostly I use that, but essentially yes add to lease or have them officially sublet from the main tenant and send me a copy of the sublease. I don't have a ton of experience and the only time it has happened is when someone wanted to have their mom move in with them.