What am I doing wrong? All agents so far have been flaky at best.

[Craig Parsons]

So we have been actively looking for investment properties for 2 years now. Fortunately we were able to purchase one and are in the rehab process. But even getting the first one took finding 3 realtors. So here is the story.

About 3 years ago I was looking to purchase property in a small Idaho town that we want to retire to sometime in the future. We already have a personal residence there but we're looking for a few fixer uppers that we could buy rehab and then rent down the road. At this point in time I had NEVER watched a flipping show or heard of BP. My plan was to buy a few cheap to me properties and just pay the mortgage with my California bay area wages. So we won't even discuss my horrible use of my cash. Anyway I find a place 50k on zillow and click the contact agent button. We'll after a few text messages I finally talked to an agent. After about 15 minutes he says " hey I have to go I will call you right back." That was 3 years ago I'm still waiting. Flake #1

So my next tactic was to Google the agent listed on the property and call her direct. We met and few weeks later I told her I was willing to make an offer but needed to know if I could even get a bank loan on a property that needed some rehab. She said "no problem we will do owner financing" I said great I can give 20% down and Made offer for 45k. this property had been listed for 6 months so I thought that warranted a price reduction. So we go back and forth a few times and she told me the owners do not wish to carry and they want full price. I said ok thank you but if you have anything else come up please let me know. 2 1/2 years later I have not heard from her. Flake #2

So here is the best part about flake #2. She was the listing agent on the house we finally purchased but we used a buyers agent because honestly from my first experience and the fact she never called me made me scared to use her.

So for the house we bought I just happened to be walking by her office and asked her if she would be willing to show me a house I had found on zillow. She said yes and she did help us purchase the property. Her service however has been lackluster at best. The last time I was in town I told her I would be there for 2 weeks and wanted to see three property. And please let me know when she could fit it in her schedule. She never called me back. But I will take some blame for this since I maybe could of pressed her harder. On the other hand I am a proven buyer in a very small market.

Ok so fast forward a till the last month after I found bigger pockets and the small Multi family game. I found a triplex I was interested in called the agent went back and forth a few time. I told her I had bank financing approved but was interested in if the owners wanted to carry back the down. She told me she didn't think they would but would ask and get back to me. Guess what! That was 3 weeks ago and still have not heard from her.

So after reading about the cash flow opportunities in the Midwest I have contacted 3 listing agents all who have multiple small multi family rentals listed . With 1 response from a guy who told me he had a family function he was headed to and what would be a good time to call me the next day. I said great told him a time and still have not heard from him. The other 2 agents have not responded to my e-mail.

Sorry for the long post but am I wrong to judge these peoplez work ethic on their lack of responsiveness or should I be prodding them harder? I have no problem contacting 100 agents but want to make sure I am not judging them too harshly.

Thanks for reading my novella! Not trying to whine just be more effective.

[Don Spafford]

@Craig Parsons You are not unique in that. Unfortunately many agents are not very good. Some just get into it because they think it is an easy way to make money. And some are too busy that they do not return calls. I have had the same experience in trying to contact agents in other markets when I see a property I am interested in. By they time they do respond back it is just to say that it is already sold. On top of that, the majority of agents are not investors. They do not fully understand what an investor needs. They list any property that is used as a rental and call it a "great cash flowing opportunity" which in most cases it is not. At least not for the price they are asking. So yes, it may take feeling out some before you can find one that will work with you as you expect. But there are some good ones out there as well who also are investors.

[Craig Parsons]

@Don Spafford. Thanks for the input. But should I ignore them if they are non responsive or give them two strikes. What about Idaho falls? Is there potential there? I'm over by Lewiston but am open to anything in Idaho as it is the state I plan to live in for rest of my life.

[Chris Davidson]

@Craig Parsons man sorry you had that experience. I feel like a lot of investors do starting out. I had a similar one to Flake#2 on my first investment. However I would encourage you to seek out a few realtors in the area you are wanting to invest in and talk to them and see if any like working with investors, and give them your game plan/ business plan that way they know you are serious and going to buy houses. The more specific you are about what you are doing the more motivated you sound. 

Hope that helps

[Craig Parsons]

@Chris Davidson

Thanks and I'm interested in Boisie as well so PM me if you want my contact info. L

[Don Spafford]

@Craig Parsons Going along with what @Chris Davidson said, it could be that the agents don't think you are serious. They don't want to waste time with someone that is a "tire kicker". You said you are already pre-approved, that is good. Are you making serious offers in this market? With today's market you pretty much can't low-ball anymore. You need to come in at or above asking, usually well above asking to have a chance at having a winning bid. I have had almost a 100% no response experience with trying to contact agents via Zillow or Realtor. I have done what you did as well and called listing agents directly assuming they would be happy to get double commission. Very few reply. I have a property I now have listed with partners for $1.5M in another state. I called a few agents in that area telling them we wanted to sell it, like you some said they would look into it and call me back, they never did. I called their main office back but didn't remember the name of who I spoke with so they put out an internal email for that person to call me back, they never did. So I actually went back to the original agent who listed this property to get his help to sell it and he has been great.

I do agree with you though, right now in the current market where properties sell the first day they are listed, you need an agent who can respond quickly and help you put in an offer when something you like comes up. If you call and they cant at least text or call back within 30-60 min, then you should search for another agent.

Idaho Falls, and all of Eastern Idaho is a good area. Lots of growth and appreciation. But properties do not last. A "cheap" property (under $200k) will probably get 20 offers, most in cash above asking. Even properties $300-350k get multiple offers in cash over asking. So it is a very difficult market right now for buyers. But it can still be done. We have several out of state investors buying here and just got a few under contract in the last few weeks. It all depends on your criteria for what you want and your long term goals. Feel free to PM me for more info.

[Craig Parsons]

@Don Spafford

Thanks for more info this helps moral if nothing else. I have not put in offers because they don't get back to me and I am reluctant to deal with someone who is non responsive. But I do not have a problem in moving on and looking for more agents. I think I will do as @David Greene suggests and make a form e-mail to send to a bunch of agents. I hate to waste people's time but the agents who do respond will hopefully appreciate it.

I will PM you when I get to a real computer Sunday night. Thanks.

[Rose Higgens]

@Craig Parsons

There’s kind of two assumptions here.

First - Not every agent is investor friendly. It requires more time to put a sale together since investors want a deal and sellers want market value (or higher). Alternatively, an agent needs the right network to know when an opportunity comes on the market. Speaking from my own experience, I get a lot of “bring me a deal” which any experienced investor knows that it takes time to source and find a deal where the numbers make sense. Most seasoned agents just don’t have the bandwidth to do that work for someone. And often the “investors” we speak to haven’t brought us business to warrant being the first call when we stumble upon one.

Second - consumers tend to be far more flaky than agents. We can’t discern a seasoned buyer from an energy vampire. Keep in mind, agents only get paid for closing on homes, there’s no hourly charge for using an agent’s time. That means they have to budget for every second not spent prospecting or working on a sale.

I would change my approach. Find an agent that markets themselves to investors. YOU source the homes you want to see and send them to your agent. Also, we get spammed with 100+ emails a day so pick up the phone or text. After you’ve worked together, your agent will be much quicker to respond.

[Craig Parsons]

@Rose Higgens

Thanks for the reply but shouldn't an agent who has a home listed for sale be returning calls and e-mails to someone who says "hi I see you have a home listed at 123 whatever street and I'm interested in purchasing it". Every agent I have contacted I contacted I regards to a property they had listed. I never really got into it about being an investor. Other than saying I may be interested in others as well. I will definitely try to let them know I am not just a tire kicker in the future though. I thought telling an agent I had financing in place would be a good clue though.

Not trying to disagree with you just trying to understand the mentality. Your points are definitely noted.

[Rose Higgens]

@Craig Parsons

I misunderstood you. When I read your post, it sounded as though you were reaching out to agents as a buyer. Typically buyers elect to have their own agent represent them. Using the listing agent is kind of like using the defendant’s attorney rather than have your own.

In your case, yes - an agent should be returning your calls. This is something even agents like myself are dealing with in this incredibly competitive market. There’s so little inventory in most markets across the US that an hour after a new home has been listed, an agent can get upwards of 100 phone calls (mostly from other agents). If you’re trying to find deals in this market, your best bet is to look off-market until things settle down. In my area, homes sell for a minimum of $40-$70k over the listed price and good luck getting a listing agent to return your calls. I certainly don’t agree with the lack of professionalism (in no other industry would it be consider acceptable to not return a phone call), but with the market the way it is, we have to give more allowances than usual for agents because it’s not normal to have this volume of inquiries.

[Curtis Mears]

@Craig Parsons

There are several screening services available. I used dave Ramsay's list and then interviewed 3 agents. I went with the agent that personally owned 3 rentals so she knew the game. She has been an excellent agent and has helped me buy 10 properties.

[Dennis Pressey Jr]

@Craig Parsons sorry decided not to read it all.

Realtors suck, just like the average ____ (insert any profession) sucks.

It sounds more like you are nervous than any realtors issue. Finding a single property is not that difficult in 2 years, in most markets we could find one by the end of the day with zero dollars spent.

Stop relying on realtors and use BiggerPockets to obtain the skills!

Tell people what you are doing. Tell everybody. A house will magically appear for you to buy :)

Much success 🎯

[Theresa Harris]

You aren't alone.  Follow up with them and tell them you are serious about buying and have financing in place.  If after that they still don't respond in a timely fashion, call the office and ask for someone who is willing to do so.

[Russell Brazil]

Good agents dont work thr $50k price point. Fixed costs of managing a transaction are higher than the actual commission, making these losses for a serious agent. 

[Shanna Vataj]

@Rose Higgens

You nailed it!!

[Craig Parsons]

@Russell Brazil. If you are saying you get what you pay for. That is a good point. But if I were an investor who listed 20 plus properties with someone who can't bother to return a phone call to a prospective buyer I as a seller would be extremely upset.

To some of the other respondants here I think I'm hearing it is ok to maybe approach someone twice so that they know you are not just wasting their time.

Thanks!

[Russell Brazil]

Originally posted by @Craig Parsons:

@Russell Brazil. If you are saying you get what you pay for. That is a good point. But if I were an investor who listed 20 plus properties with someone who can't bother to return a phone call to a prospective buyer I as a seller would be extremely upset.

To some of the other respondants here I think I'm hearing it is ok to maybe approach someone twice so that they know you are not just wasting their time.

Thanks!

 You get a different level of service when you walk onto a car lot buying 20 year old junkers verse when you walk into the Mercedes dealership to buy a new S class.  Its just a fact of life. A really good car salesman is going to work where they make a lot of money, leaving the people who arnt particularly good selling $2,000 cars. 

Not even counting labor and time, Id be negative $600 on a $50k property just on fixed costs. 

Its not about getting what you pay for. The reality is good agents wont even touch these. The person who didnt call you back, they could be good, or crap, but they likely did a simple calculation that it wasn't even worth the time to call someone back.  The people servicing properties at that price point will just by de facto be, lower tier and or struggling agents. 

If you want to invest in lower tier assets, it means adjusting expectations to the professionals that service them, adjust expectations to what the tenant base will be, adjust expectations to what the contractors will be.

[Craig Parsons]

@Russell Brazil

Excellent insight thank you. And this was the whole point of my post what expectations should I have? Now I'm realizing that my expectations were too high and they , the agents, may need a little prodding or hand holding.

I totally get that making 3% on a 50k property is a bad return on one's effort. That is why I figured someone working through Zillow would actually run as fast as possible. This is why I decided rapidly to try and contact the agents direct.

Your point of not expecting realtors selling 50k properties to be good Is very helpful in understanding these guys mindset. Probably analogous as to hiring the cash contractor versus the well established general contractor.

Thanks again

[Jonathan R McLaughlin]

@Craig Parsons look at it from that first realtors point of view. You reached out from Zillow, said u weren’t approved and didn’t have an agent. Oh boy, and you aren’t their client. And they got the same commission from you 2 years later as a selling agent without investing any time in you.

You are in a better position having closed one property, but seasoned buyer? No. Going without a realtor cuts both ways but since almost all deals are with realtors and it’s a time suck even for the listing agent.

If the listing agents are getting a lot of interest, they don’t need to respond. And that’s pretty much everyone right now.

And....many, many realtors are bad. Barrier to entry is real low.

[Craig Parsons]

@Jonathan R McLaughlin. The thing was on that first unit I would of paid cash. But we never got that far. I simply asked if conventional financing was a possibility. The only reason I didn't buy it for cash is I had set a hard budget for the property. And we were still 5k apart so I passed. I just thought that an agent who has houses to sell should contact interested buyers my reasoning is 6% seems better than 3% especially on a lower end unit.

I didn't understand why a sellers agent would even offer owner financing if they had not at least talked about it with the seller previously. I never requested owner financing but when it was offered I said sure.

Yes she got 3% on the other deal but with a phone call she could of gotten 3% more. But I guess there is a reason some people struggle and some achieve in life.

[Craig Parsons]

@Jonathan R McLaughlin

Also maybe I didn't explain well. She was listing agent on first house and I contacted her office direct not from zillow. Again this all has been great info. Now that I know more of what to expect I can be more aggressive with the agents.

[Craig Parsons]

@Jonathan R McLaughlin

Sorry one last thing. The first house never sold and I would of purchased both of them probably. Plus I would of used her for more deals in the future. Granted she does not know this but still I thought that agents should be more proactve.

[Ariel K.]

@Craig Parsons I have had the same issues. First property I bought I used a regular agent and I had a bad experience. She claimed she understood section 8 but didn’t (though I didn’t either). Second property I used the selling agent to buy 3 properties at the same time. She never got back with me after that transaction. I contacted another one and she wasn’t interested. I networked on BP and found an agent whom I used to buy another property. Hoping this works out. I’ve purchased 5 properties in this town so there should be no doubt I can close on properties. Good luck.

[Craig Parsons]

@Ariel K. Amazing!

[Jamie Derasmo]

@Craig Parsons As many others have pointed out, not all realtors will take just anyone’s business. Whether it be from a price point aspect, an investor aspect, or out of state/area aspect, etc... 

1. I think the moral of the story from most of the comments is not to be more aggressive and contact them multiple times. It’s to be more intentional about choosing the right agent. The right agent will respond and will follow-up regularly. You should not have to hand hold. Communication is a two-way street. You need to continually let them know about your intentions and they should be reaching out to you with opportunities. 

2. Don’t always go with the listing agent, they have their client’s (seller) best interest at heart and will take advantage of the information you give them or will completely disregard you based on your offer in comparison to other offers. It’s not always terrible, I’ve acted as a transaction facilitator for a buyer on one of my listings but we owe responsibility to our actual client first and foremost.

3. You seem very intent on finding a great agent and very intent on procuring properties in the near future. As others suggested, do your due diligence first and start calling agents in your desired area. Find one you make a connection with. As a pro member, you can search realtors right here on BP and they are typically investor friendly. 

As a realtor, I can help you find a good agent in your desired area. If you let me know your desired areas, price point, and Investing goals, I can make some calls and set you up with any agents who meet your needs.

Best of luck!

Jamie

[Michael Rutkowski]

As an agent I can explain a good part of this.

Flake 1 - Zillow. I hate Zillow leads. I pay $1000/mth for 9% market share in my zipcode. 95% of my calls are people just looking. Zillow does nothing to vet these leads. So I finally cut them out of my marketing budget this year, and it feels really good! I waste so much time with them it's crazy. Your agent probably feels the same. Some zipcodes are worth it though, but in a tight or expensive market, no thanks.

Flake 2 - Owner financing. Owners don't need to finance jack these days. People are buying with cash, sight unseen. Unless you're putting 50% down, no one cares.

Flake 3 - Sounds like an average real estate agent honestly, with a combo of the owner financing I mentioned above.

Midwest Flakes - Again, the market is so hot right now, you'd be lucky to pick up a cashflowing multi-family. You've got to imagine that there are probably thousands of people like you, well qualified, and serious investors, looking to score on good property.

It's just a sign of the times. It's been like this for years, progressively getting worse. Agents are also in a bind with the lack of inventory. Homeowners are not really selling, and we are at a 1.5 million property deficit. Furthermore, the FHA has lengthened mortgage forbearance, and many markets with nothing to do with FHA are also still in forbearance. It's a historical lack of inventory. We're all feeling it.