Where are the real investors? Any one know?... Bueller... Bueller

[Steve S.]

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

[Kevin Dang]

I'm new to bigger-pockets. I'm not an investor, but I am part of the industry. 

[Jay L.]

@Kevin Steward so we should be looking forward to biggestpockets.com soon?

[Kevin Steward]

@Jay L. I'm trying to get it invitation to the secret handshake room with Scott Trench and Brandon Turner😇😉

[Bill B.]

man, somebody better have biggestpockets.com by now. 

[Cody L.]

I have plenty of experience.  I see your point in that when I actually have a qeustion, it's rare I'm going to get help.  But I accept that because I don't expect there to be a ton of people who have more knowledge about the type of topics I might post about.

I come here to answer questions that might help someone out since when I got started, it was people I met (IRL) that helped me TREMENDOUSLY.  So I want to do the same.  

My 'beef', if I have one, is I don't know if my time is being 'wasted' by helping someone that's never going to pull the trigger on a deal.  So when I get a PM asking for help, I normally suggest that I can advise on a deal if it's under contract or if they have some stuff.  There are just too many questions to answer them from people who haven't been willing to take that first step. 

While it sounds elitist, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to have some forum for experienced investors. I don't know how that would be determined but it shouldn't be that hard. Net worth in properties of $1m+? 5 years or 50+ doors? Who knows. But if such a forum existed I'd likely check that more often than check the "Do I need an LLC" or "I'm putting together a team" posts.

[Cody L.]

Originally posted by @Jessica G.:

I’m confused as to what questions and conversations need to be had in a private or VIP group that can’t be had in front of *gasp* newbies ? (As opposed to a pm or phone call) Perhaps when I’m a real investor I’ll find out!

 I think it's more of, if you're an experience investors and want to participate in some forums, its hard to view the list of 100000 posts asking the same type of stuff from people who have never bought, vs. a much smaller amount of postings that might be more engaging.

So maybe it's not something hidden from 'rookies' to VIEW...   Maybe it's on that only experienced people can POST.  That way, even the rookies have a more 'advanced' place to view content.

I know if there was a forum just of posts by people who have 100's of 1000's of units, I'd be much more likely to read them each day.

[Cody L.]

Originally posted by @Steve B.:

@Steve Snyder I think this is what the pro forums are for. You can’t really be a “real playa” and expect to get all you need from the free site which is filled with us filthy casuals.

 Except "pro" is just people that paid.  Not people that have any vetted experience.  I'm not "pro" and (assume) I have more experience than 90% of people who paid for their badge.

[Cody L.]

Originally posted by @Kevin Steward:

@Steve Snyder BiggerPockets is still one of the very best places to get information from. But hey I hear there making a BIG bigger pockets for all you Ballers!

 hehe, maybe 'biggest pockets' ?  :)   EDIT:  Bleh, that joke's been made  :)

[Cody L.]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Gregory Storm:

Originally posted by @Steve S.:

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

My guess is that the "real investors" are busy investing -- doing deals, looking for properties, walking job sites and making stuff happen. Speaking for myself, that's what I've been doing.  As much as I enjoy these forums, there are other priorities that demand time first.

After looking at your BP Profile, I have a couple of questions for you.

1. Your web site hasn't been updated since 2016.  Why? 
2. Your https://twitter.com/PrivateMoneyEZ Twitter account hasn't been updated since 2016.  Why?
3. Your https://www.facebook.com/privatemoneyloan/ Facebook Page hasn't been updated since 2016. Why?
4. Your social links on your BiggerPockets profile are all broken and make it look like you're not paying attention to details. Why?

Maybe it's because you're busy doing deals and making stuff happen or maybe it's because you're spending too much time on BiggerPockets forum instead of doing deals.

Your post and profile got my attention at the right time because I'm opening escrow on five new properties and might need more lending options.  But as an investor who does fix & flip deals in Los Angeles who is open to working with new private lenders, I'm eager to hear why it looks like you've abandoned your private money business. I'm not saying you have abandoned it, but since there are no updates in almost two years, it definitely looks that way.

 not to get totally off topic but west coast fix and flippers are in the cat bird seat when it comes to rates and terms these days.. the big crowdfunders.. the Genesis ,  Anchor,  Aloha , Civic, Norris, Lending home ,  Peer street   all of these folks are competing for your business.

I don't know anything about social stuff I personally don't really care for it.. I don't have a twitter account I opened a linkdin long ago and never looked at it again..  and I do a ton of business nationwide.. so not sure that matters or maybe it does I don't even know what Twitter does in a business context  other than I hear Trump use it all the time.. and facebook same thing I would NEVER engage a lender on that site its a social site.. Too many wanna bee's and fruads .  And since I drive a Tesla I have heard of Musk using twitter talking about buying his stock back and taking It private.. 

Dude, we have a lot in common...

[Joseph ODonovan]

@Steve Snyder So you want to hobnob with the rich and famous? And do it by paying a $300 annual membership fee. I'd say you've outgrown Biggerpockets.

[Michaela G.]

Why are some of you new investors so catty about this? 

Sounds like the girlfriend that won't let her boyfriend go out with his friends, because she now feels that she's not enough for him. 

It doesn't take anything away from you and doesn't make you less of a person. You are who you are, so be realistic about the level you're in. 

I'm a fulltime investor, but I would never think that I'm enough to hang with the big investors and wouldn't want to waste their time, that they could spend with someone more their level. But that doesn't make me less than I am.

[Joseph Druther]

@Steve S. I totally feel you. I don't get on here too too much anymore for the same reason. It's phenomenal for getting foundational information and making connections. But I get tired of the "Newbie here, how do I get started?" posts. There should be a mandatory video on searching the forums first for new people to the site. Little magnifying glass.... use it lol. 

I personally had a bias against paid "guru's", and still do on most all of them. Since then, though, I have paid handsomely to be in some masterminds that absolutely are worth the payment. Paying a significant amount of money to network with other people better than you are can be totally worth it. It creates a much higher barrier to entry, but our meetups are jam packed with awesome information from people who are crushing it in their businesses. I really enjoy being able to network with people who are having more advanced business growth struggles like personnel management, growing teams, systemizing, etc., not "how do I find deals" kind of questions. I definitely want to help others earlier on in their journey get to where I am, but I have to reach up to others much further along in their journey too. 

A buddy and me started a meetup a while back and it's GREAT for networking and I've made money through connections in the group, but recently I've been having the same conversation since the REIA's are mostly new folks asking the most basic questions. It's awesome and we will keep doing it to help others along in their journey, but we talked about having a paid version that we can do some higher level thinking and masterminding here locally.

Let me know if you'd like any more information on the higher level mastermind. I'm not selling anything or pitching anything at all. I just feel your struggle and would be happy to let you know my personal experience. 

[Karen Rittenhouse]

@Mark Sewell

Correct! Started in Dallas and Houston was next. Both cities are rockin!

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Bill B.:

Could we start simple? We have connect and follow. How about block or unfollow? I’ve had too many experiences with “users” that post the same comments to every post, users that only post negative, you can’t do that crud, and add nothing to the experience but rather only take away. 

If I could block 20-30 users posts from showing to me it would greatly enhance my experience. 

Don’t everyone rush to block me now, I was only trying to help. :-)

 I think there is a block function.. ????  @Mindy Jensen  ?  its called the Joe Gore button.. 

[Jessica G.]

@Cody L. I'd actually love reading more posts from people who are where I want to be! Your idea sounds like a great solution.

@Michaela G. I can only assume your post was directed at me. I can assure you I do not feel less than anyone on this forum, because frankly the number of doors or net worth someone has does not impress me to the level that I think they are better than me. Being able to learn from more experienced people is why I'm here. So to move all of the experts to another forum defeats the purpose and it would be awesome to be able to see conversations that are happening at a higher level, even if I can't post myself, like Cody above suggested. 

[Michaela G.]

@Bola Fdipe

You might want to start your own thread with that topic

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Gregory Storm:

Originally posted by @Steve S.:

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

My guess is that the "real investors" are busy investing -- doing deals, looking for properties, walking job sites and making stuff happen. Speaking for myself, that's what I've been doing.  As much as I enjoy these forums, there are other priorities that demand time first.

After looking at your BP Profile, I have a couple of questions for you.

1. Your web site hasn't been updated since 2016.  Why? 
2. Your https://twitter.com/PrivateMoneyEZ Twitter account hasn't been updated since 2016.  Why?
3. Your https://www.facebook.com/privatemoneyloan/ Facebook Page hasn't been updated since 2016. Why?
4. Your social links on your BiggerPockets profile are all broken and make it look like you're not paying attention to details. Why?

Maybe it's because you're busy doing deals and making stuff happen or maybe it's because you're spending too much time on BiggerPockets forum instead of doing deals.

Your post and profile got my attention at the right time because I'm opening escrow on five new properties and might need more lending options.  But as an investor who does fix & flip deals in Los Angeles who is open to working with new private lenders, I'm eager to hear why it looks like you've abandoned your private money business. I'm not saying you have abandoned it, but since there are no updates in almost two years, it definitely looks that way.

 not to get totally off topic but west coast fix and flippers are in the cat bird seat when it comes to rates and terms these days.. the big crowdfunders.. the Genesis ,  Anchor,  Aloha , Civic, Norris, Lending home ,  Peer street   all of these folks are competing for your business.

I don't know anything about social stuff I personally don't really care for it.. I don't have a twitter account I opened a linkdin long ago and never looked at it again..  and I do a ton of business nationwide.. so not sure that matters or maybe it does I don't even know what Twitter does in a business context  other than I hear Trump use it all the time.. and facebook same thing I would NEVER engage a lender on that site its a social site.. Too many wanna bee's and fruads .  And since I drive a Tesla I have heard of Musk using twitter talking about buying his stock back and taking It private.. 

Dude, we have a lot in common...

 And dude, if I was a betting man I would bet you have a P100 Ludacris  :)  me I am cheap I have basic model S and one step up X for the wife.. I was going to buy a 3 changed my mind on that one..   I get where a lot of these folks are coming from.. When I go to our Pilots owner and operators forums.. you get humbled every day.. with long time pilots  guys who have made it big in their business's and talk about the new jet they just bought etc etc … so I know how people feel when they are starting in real estate.. I only have 1k hours of flight time over many years and a lot of these pilots are pro's with 10 to 20k hours.. or the owners as I stated just sold their company for 100 million etc etc  we all get humbled right about the time we think we are something  LOL..  But you talk about networking holly molly.. 

[Blake Palmer]

Originally posted by @Michaela G.:

Why are some of you new investors so catty about this? 

Sounds like the girlfriend that won't let her boyfriend go out with his friends, because she now feels that she's not enough for him. 

It doesn't take anything away from you and doesn't make you less of a person. You are who you are, so be realistic about the level you're in. 

I'm a fulltime investor, but I would never think that I'm enough to hang with the big investors and wouldn't want to waste their time, that they could spend with someone more their level. But that doesn't make me less than I am.

Nobody is being "catty" and nobody is unworthy of hanging out with big investors, including you. If they feel like being around newbies or smaller investors is a waste of their time, they are free to spend their time doing something else, but new investors should not be discouraged from trying to surround themselves with more experienced people.

There are plenty of features on this site to make life easier for everyone, including big investors. We can follow certain users, use keyword searches, listen to hundreds of bigger pockets podcasts, or if someone really thinks they are awesome she can put in an application to be interviewed on the podcast herself to get her name out there like a Shiloh or Jay. I've listened to Shiloh's podcast like 6 times and I'd LOVE to hear from others like him, but if someone doesn't want to sift through a lot of entry level questions...then maybe they shouldn't be on a message board? 

Like it or not creating a thread with the title "Where are the real investors?" is pompous and rude, so the guy shouldn't be surprised if he receives a little criticism for it. I'm sure he can handle it.

[Paul B.]

You know that expression, “If you have to ask how much X costs, you probably can’t afford it.”

Along the same lines, maybe if you have to ask where the players are, you’re not quite ready to be rubbing elbows with them...

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

This site is to put money in Josh Dorkins pocket not youRS........................................

Steve Synder sees something he should start a website.  I bet it would die a quick death.

 Troll much Jacque  ???   uncalled for  and not appreciated I am sure by most.. for a free website to then pick on the founder like this is BS

@Mindy Jensen  we may need the Jacque button. LOL.

[Michaela G.]

I agree with Jay.  Every post I've seen by Jacque is like a hit and run.  Throw 1 troll like sentence, without substance,  and sit back to see how others react.

[Hattie Dizmond]

Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

I can name quite a few extremely knowledgeable members that were very generous with their time that up and stopped posting altogether.  Most a few years ago, some more recently. I don't know why they left or where they went, but I feel repetitive answer fatigue, too.  I certainly yap a lot less than I used to.

I look to and connect with the new rock stars like Caleb that are out there helping anyway they can.  I don't reach out much, but when I do, it's usually to someone like him out there helping.  Making connections (for sales and funding apparently) are not why all of us are here.

No, there shouldn't be a VIP area. Sheesh.  Think of why Josh even built this thing.  I wouldn't join a VIP area if you paid me, much less do I even bother being a 'Pro'. Let your stats do the talking if that's your thing.  

Maybe start with the guy in your mirror. Instead of offering yet another JV deal, help someone out. Show you have the knowledge and experience to do something besides sell while you're here.

Steve is exactly right.  I spent countless hours every week on BP, answering questions, explaining concepts.  I fielded phone calls from newbies looking for advice and countless out of market investors looking for detailed information on DFW real estate.  I've been told, more than once, I should be charging for the quality and level of information I was providing.  I didn't, because I felt it was my responsibility to give back to the community.

I finally burned out.  I got tired of people posting questions that have been answered 1000's of times, in the forums, in the blogs, on the pod casts, in FREE materials available for download right here on BP.  About 2-weeks ago was my first sighting on BP in over 2-years.  The problems have only gotten worse, but I'm doing what I have always done.

What's changed?  My approach.  I no longer spend time even reading questions on the forums, which would have been fully and better answered with a simple search of the site.  I no longer get frustrated by the arrogance displayed by those asking the questions or even by some of those who think, simply because they've done a deal, they are the de facto expert and fail to recognize the difference between an opinion and a fact.  So, I don't respond to posts that show a lack of initiative, because those people won't be successful, regardless of what I tell them.  And, I now make liberal use of the "Mute User" feature.  (Although, I seriously miss the Block button.)

If you're annoyed with the quality of the discussion on BP, then do a better job of private networking or change your interaction habits. In the end, this is simply a social media site, which happens to have a focused specialization around REI.

[Mark Sewell]

I don't think I've seen another thread with as much user-on-user bashing.  Kind of a weird mixture of entertaining and sad.  

Some great responses, though, I will have to say. 

[Steve S.]

@Michaela G. I cannot agree more. The backlash has been kind a weird. Like... nothing I said was against anyone, just trying to find a more streamlined way to move things forward and enrich the community and not take anything away. Us veterans would still be on the same platform and still offer advice where it is needed. I'm just suggesting there must be away to provide a better platform to entice more accredited investors to join and take part of places where people can make deals. That's all.

@joseph 

@Joseph Druther preach on

[Steve S.]

@Account Closed Good call on the troll comments ... this isn't reddit or youtube ... these guys need to leave their angsty teenage millennial comments somewhere else and be constructive.