Planning to start investing in Detroit - any one use Upside investments?

[Sunny Karen]

Hello BP community,

My family is evaluating a cash-flow market to get into - and we are close to finalizing on Detroit for various reasons (entry point, >1% RTP, strategic investments in parts of the city, ...)

Based on conversations in my local REI meetups, this will be our first time experimenting with BRRRR's in Detroit with the intent to hold onto the properties long-term. Plan is to buy SFH & Duplexes and start out small and scale quickly once we figure out the market. We have done a lot of reading here about Class-C properties and the risks that come with it, but haven't experienced it first-hand.

We have full-time W-2 jobs and cannot be local in the area and need a trusted team on the ground. Has anyone here worked with Upside investments (https://www.investinupside.com/about.html) - Nader Shariff team? It looks like they promise a hands-off approach (sourcing, rehab management, property management) but wanted to see any experiences here in the BP community.

Besides that, I understand there is no crystal ball, but for Detroit investing - what's stopping Detroit from going back to 2008 pricing in the future?

[Sunny Karen]

Thank you everyone for coming out and reporting your experience working with the Upside team. It's good to hear all the positives & without doubt we will do our due diligence in the process.

I was less concerned about the one property that was discussed and more the overall working relationship. Being an OOS investor has it's own challenges and having a team that you can trust (not blindly) is very important to us.

[Jacopo Iasiello]

Hi Sunny, Regarding Upside Investments and Nader Shariff's team, it's essential to conduct thorough due diligence before partnering with any company. Seek out reviews and testimonials from other investors who have worked with them, inquire about their track record and experience in the Detroit market, and ensure that their values and approach align with your investment goals.

[Linda Labbe]

We  currently do a lot of investing in the Detroit area where we have great teams on the ground. We live in Northern Ontario so everything we do is remote. More then willing to share what we have learnt about this exciting market if you want to chat

[Terri B.]

Hi Sunny, I'm Detroit-based investor and realtor. Happy to help you identify, analyze and acquire your next properties. I'm very familiar with every neighborhood and can do virtual tours, identify renovation team, contractors and identify property managers. Let's Connect.

[Chris Morris]

Nader This.. Nader That.. How can I connect with Nader? Born & Raised in Detroit, looking for a fix and flip in Detroit (C Neighborhoods)

[Justin H.]

Quote from @Sunny Karen:

Thank you everyone for coming out and reporting your experience working with the Upside team. It's good to hear all the positives & without doubt we will do our due diligence in the process.

I was less concerned about the one property that was discussed and more the overall working relationship. Being an OOS investor has it's own challenges and having a team that you can trust (not blindly) is very important to us.

Hey Sunny! 

Your piece on the focus for a strong overall partnership is something that resonates with me. Which is why I wanted to share my experience with you. I found out about Upside through Travis Biziorek on Reddit. Nader Shariff, imo is the King of Deals, and Travis, who is a absolute wizard at insights. Partnering with them have been incredible. I've been really impressed with how Upside handles uncertainty. 

My first property not only brought in equity with minimal rehab but also had a tenant paying rent from day one, unlocking 25k in equity. 

Of course, we hit some bumps along the way. The appraisal actually came in lower than expected, but thanks to Travis and Nader, we were able to challenge it successfully. Detroit's neighborhoods vary a lot, and the appraiser included some comparisons that didn't quite fit. But we got it sorted. This teamwork helped us get most of our money back to invest again. 

The second deal is cruising ahead on fixing up the cosmetics, and we're in talks to refinance. Once that's done, we're eyeing up our next property with Upside. Keep digging for the best deals out there! Having a solid advisory team, like Upside, is key for out-of-state investments. Happy hunting and best of luck in your search! Looking forward to learning more about your choices and how it pencils out. 

[Brian Waters]

I have worked with Upside and more importantly Nader. He is one of the best communicators I have met in the game. As an out of state investor that is super important to me. Nader is dialed on the areas to buy and to avoid. His team handles everything from A-Z. I get updates on the progress weekly if not daily about my rehab. My advise is to reach out for yourself via a phone call. You can do your due diligence and you will find an honest, trustworthy and professional company in the hot Detroit market. If you want to reach out to me personally about my experience I am more than happy to tell you anything.

[Linda Labbe]

i love investing in the Detroit Toledo area . Have been doing this remotely for the last 7 years.We have built great teams on the ground. More then willing to share what we have learnt with anyone who wants to chat

[Dave Skow]

@Sunny Karen- thanks ...nice sounding plan ....if you havent already done so - make sure to get yourselves  formally pre approved  with a lender  using a hypothetical  scenario ... depending on the loan amt needed ( if any) - make sure the lender you talk to can handle the amount .  Good luck

[Chase Kenney]

Hi Sunny, 

We were very much in your boat about a year ago and were looking for information on Upside/Nadar. After careful consideration we bought our first properties with them and have been very happy with the results. Nadar and his team have been excellent at taking us through the ups and downs of the Detroit market and helping us through each stage of the rehab through rental. We are intending to continue to expand our portfolio in the coming months with them as well. 

The key here as many people have pointed out, is that Nadar and his team are transparent and great with people. I flew out to meet with him to get a better read. I didn't feel like he was trying to sell me anything. Rather, he was trying to help me understand the nuances of the area and where to invest and where to avoid. As he showed me more, our personal strategy actually shifted because now I know the area better. So he is an excellent resource, but learning as much as you can about Detroit is important as well. 

I am happy to have a call or a conversation with you any time to discuss the specifics of our dealings.

[Dustin Roquemore]

My Experience with Upside Investments:

As someone who prioritizes my time but recognizes the potential for wealth creation in real estate, the idea of traditional, hands-on investment wasn't ideal. I was particularly interested in the BRRRR method to leverage my capital and create forced appreciation through strategic rehabs. This is where Upside Investments in Detroit entered the picture.

Upside Investments helps investors achieve a hands-off approach to real estate investing and perform a BRRRR project remotely with ease. I have purchased a single-family home and a duplex in Detroit with them.

Deal Expertise: Nader and the team really have a good grasp of the Detroit market. I was presented with multiple deals and walked through pros/cons of each house and specific street/neighborhood. Both the single-family home and duplex they found for me were ideal for helping me advanced my real estate game plan forward.

Rehab Efficiency: Upside managed the entire rehab process for both properties. Each house came in at or under budget. Lots of pictures and communication were provided during the rehab process, which for an out of state investor is critical to building trust on with the team and build a relationship for future investing. This saved me a significant amount of time and potential headaches.

Tenant Management: Upside was able to get me a tenant lead for the single family within a few days of rehab completion and rent amount exceed projections by $200. My single family house will rent for $1300 and I am all into the deal for $75K (well over the 1% rule). I have not started the refinance process, but fully expecting to get my money back out of the deal. For my duplex, the Upside team was able to find and have the tenant moving in in 4 weeks.

Transparency & Communication: Upside kept me informed throughout the entire process, addressing any questions or concerns promptly. You are easily able to talk to Nader of the phone or his team. They also work through text communication. Now, it's important to be realistic, did everything go perfectly… of course not. However, any issues were communicated and addressed.

Overall, my experience with Upside Investments has been positive. They've made Detroit real estate investing a viable option for someone like me who values a hands-off approach. I plan to purchase more properties after completing my refinances.  

Feel free to DM with any specific questions or if you want more information.

[Geoff Anfuso]

Hey @Sunny Karen,

I think a lot of my experience would echo the other positive reviews of the Upside operation. I'll do you one better than the other reviews and offer to have a call with you to walk you through what I've learned.

My situation - California-based investor looking for a team to help me invest in real estate. Knew I would have to go out of market given entry point and availability of opportunities that actually cash flow (that is, not just on the excel spreadsheet). I spent approximately three months researching various markets before meeting @Travis Biziorek through BP. 

My investments - I have purchased two properties through Upside in two different Detroit neighborhoods. 

First property has been renovated, leased, and managed in line with all timelines and expectations. I chose to refinance this property and closed a 75% LTV mortgage on an appraisal of $100k vs. $86k invested. This refinance was completed three months after purchasing the property.

Second property took a little longer to renovate due to the holidays and contractor scheduling issues. Could it have been done faster? Maybe, but I have a lot of trust in the team given the experience from my first property. We're interviewing tenants now, and are pushing rents above the modeled amount. I'm excited about this one given the particular neighborhood I'm in.

Upside team - I have worked with various members of the team. The day-to-day folks are courteous and responsive. They respond quickly to emails/calls and follow up on open items. Software used for maintaining property financials is intuitive and distributions are made timely on a monthly basis. Guides on how to deal with some of the nuanced regulatory/filing requirements specific to Detroit are provided. If you worked with property management companies before, you know that this type of service is not as common as it should be.

@Travis Biziorek was great in educating me on investing in Detroit. This wasn't done through pitching me Upside opportunities, but instead through sharing his Detroit investing experiences and goals. As mentioned by another contributor, you really should read everything posted on Travis' blog. I consider Travis a mentor and you can review his posts on this forum to see how he helps others. I should mention, Travis had great referrals for lenders, insurance agents, etc. that are hard to come by for first time out of state investors.

Nader is the owner of Upside and is one patient individual! I consider myself a very analytical individual and likely asked way too many questions before making my first investment. Nader walked me through all of my concerns. Despite being at the top of the organization, Nader is very involved in the day-to-day and will hop in to solve issues. He's based in Detroit and I feel he does a good job pushing third vendors to get his clients the best deals and turnaround time. 

Feels like you might have enough responses in this chain to feel like you should continue exploring an investing relationship with Upside. I will tell you, I spent a lot of time speaking with different agents/property management companies/gurus once I settled on Detroit as my market. I'd warn you there are some less than savory/less than qualified folks out there. I still have some of them hitting my inbox with garbage opportunities that I'm thankful I avoided. Once you're comfortable investing in Class C as a product, I think you'll feel comfortable with the team.

Anyhow, hope this was helpful in your search and please feel free to reach out to me directly.

[Travis Biziorek]

Quote from @Geoff Anfuso:

Hey @Sunny Karen,

I think a lot of my experience would echo the other positive reviews of the Upside operation. I'll do you one better than the other reviews and offer to have a call with you to walk you through what I've learned.

My situation - California-based investor looking for a team to help me invest in real estate. Knew I would have to go out of market given entry point and availability of opportunities that actually cash flow (that is, not just on the excel spreadsheet). I spent approximately three months researching various markets before meeting @Travis Biziorek through BP. 

My investments - I have purchased two properties through Upside in two different Detroit neighborhoods. 

First property has been renovated, leased, and managed in line with all timelines and expectations. I chose to refinance this property and closed a 75% LTV mortgage on an appraisal of $100k vs. $86k invested. This refinance was completed three months after purchasing the property.

Second property took a little longer to renovate due to the holidays and contractor scheduling issues. Could it have been done faster? Maybe, but I have a lot of trust in the team given the experience from my first property. We're interviewing tenants now, and are pushing rents above the modeled amount. I'm excited about this one given the particular neighborhood I'm in.

Upside team - I have worked with various members of the team. The day-to-day folks are courteous and responsive. They respond quickly to emails/calls and follow up on open items. Software used for maintaining property financials is intuitive and distributions are made timely on a monthly basis. Guides on how to deal with some of the nuanced regulatory/filing requirements specific to Detroit are provided. If you worked with property management companies before, you know that this type of service is not as common as it should be.

@Travis Biziorek was great in educating me on investing in Detroit. This wasn't done through pitching me Upside opportunities, but instead through sharing his Detroit investing experiences and goals. As mentioned by another contributor, you really should read everything posted on Travis' blog. I consider Travis a mentor and you can review his posts on this forum to see how he helps others. I should mention, Travis had great referrals for lenders, insurance agents, etc. that are hard to come by for first time out of state investors.

Nader is the owner of Upside and is one patient individual! I consider myself a very analytical individual and likely asked way too many questions before making my first investment. Nader walked me through all of my concerns. Despite being at the top of the organization, Nader is very involved in the day-to-day and will hop in to solve issues. He's based in Detroit and I feel he does a good job pushing third vendors to get his clients the best deals and turnaround time. 

Feels like you might have enough responses in this chain to feel like you should continue exploring an investing relationship with Upside. I will tell you, I spent a lot of time speaking with different agents/property management companies/gurus once I settled on Detroit as my market. I'd warn you there are some less than savory/less than qualified folks out there. I still have some of them hitting my inbox with garbage opportunities that I'm thankful I avoided. Once you're comfortable investing in Class C as a product, I think you'll feel comfortable with the team.

Anyhow, hope this was helpful in your search and please feel free to reach out to me directly.

 Thanks for sharing, Geoff!

[Sun-Li Beatteay]

Another fellow Sunny!

About your question, I've worked with Nader, Travis, and Upside. I've bought one property with them in Warren and am in the process of getting it through the CoC process. I'm also in the process of purchasing another property with them in Detroit.

Overall, the process has been seemless and I can recommend Upside. I’m fortunate in that I live in the Detroit area, but their typical clientele is out-of-state investors.

Best of luck

[Travis Biziorek]

Quote from @Sun-Li Beatteay:

Another fellow Sunny!

About your question, I've worked with Nader, Travis, and Upside. I've bought one property with them in Warren and am in the process of getting it through the CoC process. I'm also in the process of purchasing another property with them in Detroit.

Overall, the process has been seemless and I can recommend Upside. I’m fortunate in that I live in the Detroit area, but their typical clientele is out-of-state investors.

Best of luck

 Thanks, Sunny! See you late June if you're around and can come hang.

[James Wise]

Quote from @Arsen Atanasovski:

Why does Ohio always have to butt in? I know there is a few areas in Ohio that are top cash flow cities on the national list but let’s talk about football. That’s right there is only one, GO BLUE! 

 The views and opinions of all of the future Uber drivers from Columbus do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the few skilled Real Estate Brokers in Ohio.

[Rich Solano]

Quote from @Odalis Gonzalez:

I just started working with Nader about a year ago but followed his journey for years. We bought a property for $40k, put about $12k into it and will be refinancing that one appraising somewhere around $95k+. Renter in it paying what they estimated and we cash flow $855. Granted we paid cash. Second property was a flip. Bought for $60k all in including the Reno Costs. They managed and communicated everything, sold that property for $80k- all happened in about 4 months. Of course things come up, they deal with them and communicate delays or issues. We are in NY and they have allowed us to be as hands off but still involved as possible. Nader is about building relationships and keeping a long standing relationship. He has been nothing but transparent and honest throughout, even being honest about what he feels would be a good fit for whatever our long term plans are. We plan on doing more flips and adding to our hood portfolio even more over the next year. 

Are you renting to section 8 tenants or conventional ? 

[Odalis Gonzalez]

Conventional. I would like to dive into section 8 for the next couple. 

[Leonardo Chandler]

Interesting choice of market to invest in. Experience with Upside Investments, especially the Nader Shariff team, would be beneficial. As for the potential risk of Detroit home prices returning to 2008 levels, it is possible, but much depends on factors such as the economic situation, city management and strategic investments.

[Terri B.]

Hey @Chris Morris I think I recognize you from #CTFiredUp. Im an investor-focused realtor in the D. I have some off-markets and listings that might interest you. Please connect. Quote from @Chris Morris

[Chris Morris]

Quote from @Terri B.:

Hey @Chris Morris I think I recognize you from #CTFiredUp. Im an investor-focused realtor in the D. I have some off-markets and listings that might interest you. Please connect. Quote from @Chris Morris

Lets Connect! #CTFiredUp