The 5 Biggest Mistakes New Investors Are Making Here In The Forums

[Jonathan Greene]

These are here to help you make better connections in the forums. It's ok to be new, but if you consider these five tips, you will get much better responses to your questions.

1. Writing too little or too much in a post looking for answers. There is a happy medium out there. If you write a novel, most of us won't read it because it's just too much. If you write too little, we have nothing to go on. Ask one question and tell everyone what you have done up to this point to get the answers. Also, give relevant information on rates, prices, square footage, etc.

2. Asking for a mentor without having anything to give. This is running rampant. It's great to get in the forums and look to make connections, but when you only put your hand out and ask for help and have nothing to give back, you are only going to get people who are going to pitch you. A few locals may reach out (more likely local agents), but you will never hear back if you hop on that call and only want to take from them.

3. Being fragile when you don't get the responses you want. If someone doesn't give you the answer you want and you clap back, your time in the forums will be short. Not because you will get removed but because you aren't open to advice. Sometimes, you will ask one question, but pros will have other questions to see if you are even asking the right question. Open forums aren't the best option if you are prone to fragility.

4. Asking questions without researching how often the same question has been asked. See "Should I start an LLC?" as an example. If you want to get the best responses, don't ask a question that has been asked a million times. Do your due diligence in the forums, looking for other answers, and use those to frame a better question.

5. Posting the same question in multiple forums. This is a definite no-no. Please stop. Pick one forum where your question makes the most sense. If it's a good question, we will find it. If you post the same question in several forums, we all know it's spam. You know it's spam. Don't spam.

If you are an experienced commenter here, let everyone know what you think of these to help them even more. Add some of your own.

If you are new, please use these to help yourself get better answers here.

[Carlos Ptriawan]

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

@Chris Seveney hit it on the head about AI. It will not work here, it might save you a little time, but will just collect similar data which is not necessarily accurate. I don't use AI at all, for anything, and see no value in it for me. Most people who are using it are using it the wrong way in real estate. It's a measuring tool or an efficiency tool to start research. It's not the research.

 Also, anytime a computer runs a program its called "AI". AI has been around forever, how do you think sports betting lines get their spreads? They take historical data/analysis and run it through a model.... Excel has had "what-ifs" forever in their program. Now technology has progressed (just like self driving cars), but getting to 80% is easy, getting things perfected to the last 10-20% takes forever (see blockchain which a decade ago was going to change real estate forever - how has that worked?).

Its best use is for repetitive processes but as you mention jonathan, its a tool but you still need the human. This is not to say we do not use it,we use it for our business but its a tool and never used to make a specific decision.

 real AI just came out 13 months ago lol....AI (is on the path) to replacing google. 
Like google is almost dead by now lol. Most if not 80% of newbie questions (if not too specific) can be summarized by AI.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

@Chris Seveney hit it on the head about AI. It will not work here, it might save you a little time, but will just collect similar data which is not necessarily accurate. I don't use AI at all, for anything, and see no value in it for me. Most people who are using it are using it the wrong way in real estate. It's a measuring tool or an efficiency tool to start research. It's not the research.

 In my experience, AI is the only thing that would work here and greatly help newbies. The AI can summarize whether the data has a majority of strong opinion or they kind of mixed opinion.

The fact that you don't use AI is showing your opinion that you may not know what the AI can help on this specific thread.

AI can only create a synopsis, it's not real for forum purposes. For example, it would pull a ton from this thread and think it's as much about the subject of fragility as it as about what to do as a new investor and that would not highlight the correct content. Using AI for new investors is a rabbit hole that will hurt most because they want it to tell them everything and as we said, it's a great starting point, but not the end game.

[Carlos Ptriawan]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

@Chris Seveney hit it on the head about AI. It will not work here, it might save you a little time, but will just collect similar data which is not necessarily accurate. I don't use AI at all, for anything, and see no value in it for me. Most people who are using it are using it the wrong way in real estate. It's a measuring tool or an efficiency tool to start research. It's not the research.

 In my experience, AI is the only thing that would work here and greatly help newbies. The AI can summarize whether the data has a majority of strong opinion or they kind of mixed opinion.

The fact that you don't use AI is showing your opinion that you may not know what the AI can help on this specific thread.

AI can only create a synopsis, it's not real for forum purposes. For example, it would pull a ton from this thread and think it's as much about the subject of fragility as it as about what to do as a new investor and that would not highlight the correct content. Using AI for new investors is a rabbit hole that will hurt most because they want it to tell them everything and as we said, it's a great starting point, but not the end game.

AI that's specific for forum already exist, such as NLP. They can query from a bunch of forum discussion even as large as Reditt and give weight to multiple answers/opinions with all options being explained clearly. They would understand the content as well. I have been using it for a while now and I can say for knowledge transformation, the small AI company already makes google/yahoo obsolete. It's all about making knowledge transformation much quicker than before. Big forum like BP/RedItt has its own limitation where people need to read so many answers/different opinion (only to be confused later on) but it can't summarize. Lets say if you or Chris has different opinion and answer for a particular subject, the poster needs to read all 100 pages (such as this thread). But then the AI can understand its content/context and then give a proper summary. It saves a ton.

[Carlos Ptriawan]

what i am trying to emphasize is due to how biggerpocket is structured, it creates so many newbie because the technology that's used by biggerpocket is so 1992. it's just simple forum, people ask question and then people would answer.

in 2024 , the journey should be more like finding a better answer interactively, summarization and contextualization. so if someone ask "hey shall i invest for cash flow or appreciations ?" a menu/prompt can say "hey that question has been asked 93,321 times, how about if you read the answer here , here and here : if you still confuse, try to ask more question , but please add more context and your particular situation", then between BP and posters there're more interactions. Or this bot can ask "do you mean cash flow in cleveland" ? yes....and then BP can show the actual data or external URL whether it's possible to cashflowing in cleveland or not ,

[Diane Chapman]

Thank you again Angela for your post!

[Mike Lambert]

@Jonathan Greene

I found out and read your post today as David and Rob commented on it in the BP podcast 973, which I'd just listened to. I cannot agree more.

Interestingly I just got confronted with #3. I took a lot of time (that I don't have) to answer a query from a newbie on the forum because I wanted to help him avoid making big mistakes and wasting a lot of time and money if I could. I spent some extra time to carefully craft my answer to be as much positive and as less negative that I could I still got and rude and arrogant answer back suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about. And then I had to reply just because I had to prove to the community that I'm not a complete ignorant and take the extra time to do it with a bit of class (I included a link to this thread).

Since I've been in the forum, I believe I've been one of the main contributors to the international forum and this has been a big part of my contribution bucket. This situation though is the straw that breaks the camel's back and I just made the decision that I'll significantly dial back the time that I spend answering posts on the forum.

Hopefully, more people will read your post and gratitude will win the day over rudeness and arrogance!

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Mike Lambert:

@Jonathan Greene

I found out and read your post today as David and Rob commented on it in the BP podcast 973, which I'd just listened to. I cannot agree more.

Interestingly I just got confronted with #3. I took a lot of time (that I don't have) to answer a query from a newbie on the forum because I wanted to help him avoid making big mistakes and wasting a lot of time and money if I could. I spent some extra time to carefully craft my answer to be as much positive and as less negative that I could I still got and rude and arrogant answer back suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about. And then I had to reply just because I had to prove to the community that I'm not a complete ignorant and take the extra time to do it with a bit of class (I included a link to this thread).

Since I've been in the forum, I believe I've been one of the main contributors to the international forum and this has been a big part of my contribution bucket. This situation though is the straw that breaks the camel's back and I just made the decision that I'll significantly dial back the time that I spend answering posts on the forum.

Hopefully, more people will read your post and gratitude will win the day over rudeness and arrogance!

I will have to check out that episode; thank you. I have been on with them twice on the regular podcast, and now they are talking about me behind my back? LOL

I have experienced the fragility over and over for ten years here. There is another thread (look up Bro Investor) from four years ago where the same thing happened. People don't want advice; they want yeses and backpats, and that's not for me.

I appreciate you bringing this one back to life!

[Jim K.]

@Jonathan Greene

"You discouraged me...you shattered my dreams...how could you..." And it typically  goes on and on, a wall of unstructured, unedited accusatory logorrhea, and all you're thinking is that you don't have time to respond to this BS.

[Jonathan Greene]

Thanks to @Mike Lambert for informing us that this thread was featured on BP episode 973. If you scroll to 20:00 - 24:00, you can listen to David and Rob discuss all 5 points on the list and agree with them. It's funny how that works. It acknowledges that most of us are just trying to help people. Why else would I have made this post?

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Mike Lambert:

Hopefully, more people will read your post and gratitude will win the day over rudeness and arrogance!

Wouldn't that be nice? I've experienced both when giving helpful advice and I much prefer gratitude....

[Katherine Chinelli]

Pertinent and helpful as usual! Thank you for your advice. 

[Katherine Chinelli]

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

what i am trying to emphasize is due to how biggerpocket is structured, it creates so many newbie because the technology that's used by biggerpocket is so 1992. it's just simple forum, people ask question and then people would answer.

in 2024 , the journey should be more like finding a better answer interactively, summarization and contextualization. so if someone ask "hey shall i invest for cash flow or appreciations ?" a menu/prompt can say "hey that question has been asked 93,321 times, how about if you read the answer here , here and here : if you still confuse, try to ask more question , but please add more context and your particular situation", then between BP and posters there're more interactions. Or this bot can ask "do you mean cash flow in cleveland" ? yes....and then BP can show the actual data or external URL whether it's possible to cashflowing in cleveland or not ,

 This is fantastic. When are you going to write this code or set up this AI? I love it.

[Sarita Scherpereel]

We should do one for the pro members next! 

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Sarita Scherpereel:

We should do one for the pro members next! 

That could be an interesting one...

[Anderson S.]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

These are here to help you make better connections in the forums. It's ok to be new, but if you consider these five tips, you will get much better responses to your questions.

1. Writing too little or too much in a post looking for answers. There is a happy medium out there. If you write a novel, most of us won't read it because it's just too much. If you write too little, we have nothing to go on. Ask one question and tell everyone what you have done up to this point to get the answers. Also, give relevant information on rates, prices, square footage, etc.

2. Asking for a mentor without having anything to give. This is running rampant. It's great to get in the forums and look to make connections, but when you only put your hand out and ask for help and have nothing to give back, you are only going to get people who are going to pitch you. A few locals may reach out (more likely local agents), but you will never hear back if you hop on that call and only want to take from them.

3. Being fragile when you don't get the responses you want. If someone doesn't give you the answer you want and you clap back, your time in the forums will be short. Not because you will get removed but because you aren't open to advice. Sometimes, you will ask one question, but pros will have other questions to see if you are even asking the right question. Open forums aren't the best option if you are prone to fragility.

4. Asking questions without researching how often the same question has been asked. See "Should I start an LLC?" as an example. If you want to get the best responses, don't ask a question that has been asked a million times. Do your due diligence in the forums, looking for other answers, and use those to frame a better question.

5. Posting the same question in multiple forums. This is a definite no-no. Please stop. Pick one forum where your question makes the most sense. If it's a good question, we will find it. If you post the same question in several forums, we all know it's spam. You know it's spam. Don't spam.

If you are an experienced commenter here, let everyone know what you think of these to help them even more. Add some of your own.

If you are new, please use these to help yourself get better answers here.

ALL OF THIS!

BP is an incredible resource - your question has probably already been asked. As an investor you need a very different mentality from a retail purchaser. Start there!

[Joseph Gonnella]

Agree and disagree with what Jonathan and others are saying. Part of the problem is that a new person looking to get into rei is just looking for a good start. Where do I start? What questions do I ask to get me on the right track? They just don't know. So you can come up with a list of rules to follow and how to approach you questions but it will only help 10% of the people that actually find the right page to actually try to make a legitimate post and ask a question. Instead of posting ask you question this way or don't be fragile or whatever. the initial page of Bigger Pockets should direct you to here is where to start. Then let the newbie navigate through all the elementary things and then direct them introduction of the forums. That is where the rules or guidelines to sending a post should be. Bottom line - BP can be overwhelming for a newbie and you will lose them fast, which is contradictory to why BP started and is here for. I thought BP was here for newbies through advanced and specific niche REI. The people who enter the forums just want to learn with nothing to give at this moment except the willingness to learn first. No question is stupid - its just not refined to get an educated answer. Be gracious enough to direct them.

[Jim K.]

@Joseph Gonnella

Oh sure, that sounds great, but in reality, what the forums get in the end are an avalanche of newbies, all asking the same four questions. And behind those those questions there really is only one question: "Will someone here mentor me for free? PLEEEEAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE?"

The gurus never tell you that searching through the smoke and the mirrors in the game, extending yourself very uncomfortably into the unknown, being willing to invest and possibly waste your time searching for answers, actually building meaningful relationships, all of that's is a very big part, if not the biggest part, of winning in real estate.

When Hannibal was told it was impossible to get his elephants over the Alps to invade Roman territory from the north, he responded with the following:

"Aut inveniam viam aut faciam"

I WILL FIND A WAY OR MAKE ONE.

That's the attitude we need here. Not lazy grifters who ask for guidance and direction before they lift a finger to help themselves (which is the norm here, sad to say). Not entitled man-children who pout and pout when you call them on their BS. And most especially, not people looking for "a good start" in real estate.

Really, nobody who every gets anywhere in real estate ever had "a good start." You get in, you take a beating sooner or later, usually sooner, and then you get back up and go at it again. Until then, no one in this business is going to see you as anything other than someone to ignore or, worse, take advantage of. Sorry, just like everything else, everywhere else, sure, you're expected to pay your damned dues. And those dues are really financially expensive and even more expensive in terms of blood, sweat, tears, toil AND TIME.

You want a head start over the unwashed and a short cut to success (which is really what most people want)? Go to the gurus. Pay your money. Take your chances. Trust them. Sure, it's gonna be great.

So yeah, the entry process into real estate is overwhelming. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. It should be. So when you come to the forums and talk to people who have been there and done that, come correct. Don't come with your hand out and your nose up. You're the new kid. You ain't all that.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Jim K.:

@Joseph Gonnella

Oh sure, that sounds great, but in reality, what the forums get in the end are an avalanche of newbies, all asking the same four questions. And behind those those questions there really is only one question: "Will someone here mentor me for free? PLEEEEAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE?"

The gurus never tell you that searching through the smoke and the mirrors in the game, extending yourself very uncomfortably into the unknown, being willing to invest and possibly waste your time searching for answers, actually building meaningful relationships, all of that's is a very big part, if not the biggest part, of winning in real estate.

When Hannibal was told it was impossible to get his elephants over the Alps to invade Roman territory from the north, he responded with the following:

"Aut inveniam viam aut faciam"

I WILL FIND A WAY OR MAKE ONE.

That's the attitude we need here. Not lazy grifters who ask for guidance and direction before they lift a finger to help themselves (which is the norm here, sad to say). Not entitled man-children who pout and pout when you call them on their BS. And most especially, not people looking for "a good start" in real estate.

Really, nobody who every gets anywhere in real estate ever had "a good start." You get in, you take a beating sooner or later, usually sooner, and then you get back up and go at it again. Until then, no one in this business is going to see you as anything other than someone to ignore or, worse, take advantage of. Sorry, just like everything else, everywhere else, sure, you're expected to pay your damned dues. And those dues are really financially expensive and even more expensive in terms of blood, sweat, tears, toil AND TIME.

You want a head start over the unwashed and a short cut to success (which is really what most people want)? Go to the gurus. Pay your money. Take your chances. Trust them. Sure, it's gonna be great.

So yeah, the entry process into real estate is overwhelming. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. It should be. So when you come to the forums and talk to people who have been there and done that, come correct. Don't come with your hand out and your nose up. You're the new kid. You ain't all that.

PREACH!

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Joseph Gonnella:

Agree and disagree with what Jonathan and others are saying. Part of the problem is that a new person looking to get into rei is just looking for a good start. Where do I start? What questions do I ask to get me on the right track? They just don't know. So you can come up with a list of rules to follow and how to approach you questions but it will only help 10% of the people that actually find the right page to actually try to make a legitimate post and ask a question. Instead of posting ask you question this way or don't be fragile or whatever. the initial page of Bigger Pockets should direct you to here is where to start. Then let the newbie navigate through all the elementary things and then direct them introduction of the forums. That is where the rules or guidelines to sending a post should be. Bottom line - BP can be overwhelming for a newbie and you will lose them fast, which is contradictory to why BP started and is here for. I thought BP was here for newbies through advanced and specific niche REI. The people who enter the forums just want to learn with nothing to give at this moment except the willingness to learn first. No question is stupid - its just not refined to get an educated answer. Be gracious enough to direct them.

The pro of what you said is that you don't seem to be whining about it all that much, but everything else is a con. You are new so you think the best idea to build relationships here is to hop on the one of the longest threads with your first post and ask everyone to be gracious?

Let me tell you what gracious is. I've been investing for more than 30 years. I have spent 15-30 minutes a day, with some breaks, for close to 10 years just answering questions in here. Most of the time people are overjoyed to get a real response. Some babies cry about it. But I don't get paid. I don't have courses. I don't push my real estate business or my podcast. I just show up and answer questions.

The fact that the site can be overwhelming is a you thing and a BP thing. None of us, bar a couple who post, work for BP and have no control over the UI and usability of the site. We play with the cards and the deck we are given. A lot of people say the search doesn't work. I wouldn't say the search function is good, but it most certainly works. Any new person who complains like this and asks for grace is just lazy. You don't want to do the work to search and find or build real relationships. That's why everyone who whines doesn't have a photo.

[Joseph Gonnella]

I definitely see your points Jim K. And enjoyed reading it as well.  I wasn’t trying to criticize anyone’s posts.  I was really just getting at the BP forum guidance.  There is so much knowledge and really good information that it’s a shame to miss out because its hidden or a person doesn’t know how to navigate the website.  I can say, it has taken me many hours of reading through posts and searching just for the right subject to see that one tiny nugget of knowledge that sparks a creative way or angle to make my life easier in real estate.

Maybe I missed it but when a new person logs into BP, the website should automatically take them to some guidelines and how to navigate to the information you wanna read about.  This way knowledgeable people that want to help others or share good quality information don’t have to waste their time reading all the ignorant posts refereed.  I stumbled in this forum but the posts triggered my thoughts on how to improve the overall experience.

I will say it was entertaining reading tho. 

[Jim K.]

Quote from @Joseph Gonnella:

There is so much knowledge and really good information that it’s a shame to miss out because its hidden or a person doesn’t know how to navigate the website.  I can say, it has taken me many hours of reading through posts and searching just for the right subject to see that one tiny nugget of knowledge that sparks a creative way or angle to make my life easier in real estate. 

You see, Joseph, right there you've missed my point. Just how low is BP supposed to set the bar? The first tab on the screen next to the logo is "LEARN." And look, "FORUMS" is all the way over over on the other side of the screen!

I think even if BP self-published, at huge expense, "THE ULTIMATE VIDEO COURSE TO STARTING IN REAL ESTATE" and stuck it under the LEARN tab, a large number of people would still just automatically click on FORUMS and continue to do what they do now. "PLEEEEEAAAAASSSEEEE, will someone mentor me for free here? PREEETTTYYYY PLEEEEEEEASSSSEEE???"

That's just how it goes.

[Austin Bates]

As for #2. If your new and are trying to pick up knowledge from and experience individual and you have nothing to offer due to 0 experience. What should one do to become more valuable to someone that is a seasoned investor? 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Austin Bates:

As for #2. If your new and are trying to pick up knowledge from and experience individual and you have nothing to offer due to 0 experience. What should one do to become more valuable to someone that is a seasoned investor? 

There's probably nothing that you can offer that they really need. Oftentimes all that is needed is to show genuine interest, to actually do what is suggested by the mentor, and to be at least moderately grateful along the way. It can be that simple. 

you're thinking - what.....everybody does that right? But you'd be surprised how many people are looking for help do none of the above..

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Austin Bates:

As for #2. If your new and are trying to pick up knowledge from and experience individual and you have nothing to offer due to 0 experience. What should one do to become more valuable to someone that is a seasoned investor? 

Do your research and ask good questions. Investors love to tell their story and being interested instead of interesting is what will help you build relationships.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Just to add on so - that new investors understand our frustration that @Jonathan Greene talks about...

Within the past few months, I have reached out via PM to at least 2 parties that were looking for a mentor. I chose them because it seemed that they appeared worthy of some assistance. Of course, I offered my help at no charge, as I usually do.

Do you think I ever heard back? No....... No "thanks, but I already found someone", or " thanks, I changed my  mind" or anything. Zero manners.