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All Forum Posts by: Heshel Mangel

Heshel Mangel has started 25 posts and replied 198 times.

Post: Cincinnati Ohio newbie meetup?

Heshel MangelPosted
  • Posts 208
  • Votes 90

@Marti Rowland I suggest checking out @Joe Fairless meetup once a month in Deer Park. There is one just last night, it's the last Tuesday of every month. 

Post: Opinions on west price hill

Heshel MangelPosted
  • Posts 208
  • Votes 90

@Eric Harrison I have a property in West Price Hill. PM me and I'll try to give you my thoughts. 

Rule: Real Estate is the easy way to becoming financially free, buy my course for $997 and I'll show you how

Reality: Nothing is easy. It is a ton of hard work, persistence, and consistency that will get you somewhere. Don't fall in the guru trap. 

@Michael Ealy

@Anthony Hawkins Welcome to BP! Saylor park is an interesting area, it is outside the "mainland" of Cincinnati. Is your plan to sell the house or rent it out? What is the reasoning why you want to BRRR in general if your actual goal is in developing and commerical?

Post: 1st BRRRR Success(ish)

Heshel MangelPosted
  • Posts 208
  • Votes 90
Originally posted by @Michael Doherty:

Here's a recount of my first BRRRR (Buy- Renovate-Rent-Refinance-Repeat) deal with specific details/numbers. This post is long and detailed, but for those who spend the time to read through it, I hope it helps.

How did I found the deal:

I found this deal on the MLS. It was a foreclosure and soon after submitting my offer, I found out another investor outbid me. It wasn't until 2 weeks later, my agent informed me the original investors financing fell through and my offer was accepted.

The Property and Location:

The property is an oversized two family house right next to a major Hospital and University in Middletown, Ct. Unit 1 has 3BR 1B and Unit 2 has 3BR 1B with 2 large rooms in the finished attic. From a location standpoint, I was pretty familiar with the area and believed it would be sought after in 3-5 years. I have already started to see many restaurants and breweries popping up in town.

Financing:

Listing: $130k 

Purchase Price: $118k

Financing: Hard Money Lender to fund 90% of the Purchase Price, 90% of the renovations for 3pts and 11.5% interest for 12 months no prepayment penalty. I had only done 2 prior deals (no flips) so the rate was slightly higher.

Rehab Budget: $30k

ARV (estimate): $215k

Rent (estimate): $2,800

  • Scope of work: 
    Convert Unit 2 from electric to gas heat. Unit 1 had already been converted so I knew gas lines were in place.
  • Install new on demand hot water system for 2nd floor unit. 
  • Install Luxury Vinyl Plank flooring (LVP) throughout both units (Home Decorators Collection Blue Cedar Grey from Home Depot)
  • Install new counter tops and cabinets in 2nd floor kitchen
  • New Vanity/shower for 2nd floor unit
  • Install 3 new windows
  • Install Sump pump in basement
  • Update washer dryer hooks (each unit)
  • Paint all ceilings/walls/ trim ( Agreeable Grey from Sherman Williams)
  • New appliances for 2nd floor kitchen (used from Facebook Market Place)

Holding Costs: $8,271

  • 4 months of $1,284 interest only payments
  • Taxes
  • Utilities
  • 6 months Builders Risk/General Liability Premium

After all said and done I spent $28,397 (not included holding costs) and was under budget!

Rent:

I was able to rent the top unit for $1,400 and the bottom unit for $1,375 totaling $2,775.

Refinance:

Because the renovation only took 3 months, I was looking for a lender who would refinance the deal without a seasoning period. After doing some research I came across a lender (found him here on Bigger Pockets) who would do a 75% cash out refi, 30 yr fixed @5.965% for 2.5pts, No seasoning.

When I originally financed the deal with the hard money lender I received two appraisals. The first was an as is appraisal for $120k. It also included a projected appraisal (including the scope of my work) for $220k (5k higher than my ARV!!)

Unfortunately my REFI appraisal came back at $201,500- 17k under the projected appraisal.

My lender then agreed to change the terms to 80% LTV to make this work. Two days before closing they changed their mind and could no longer do the 80% LTV, only 75% LTV. They would not budge and did not let me dispute the appraisal so I ended up dropping them and starting my search over. Moreover, I ended up finding another lender who would finance 75% cash out, 1.5pts, 30 yr fixed at 6.6% no seasoning. Their appraisal it came back @ $200,500- 1k less than the original!!!! At this point I figured I was sh** out of luck and should just eat the difference. However, I ended up writing a very detailed letter to the appraiser explaining why I think certain comps should be used vs others and he ended up increasing the value to $205,000!!!.

So after all said and done here is was the numbers look like:

Hard Money Loan

Hard Money Loan Payoff: $134k

Cash into the deal: $24k (includes 10% down on loan, 10% of rehab costs, closing costs)

Refi: 75% of $205,000= $153,750

Cash out: $153,750- $135k(hard money pay off)= $18,750

Closing costs: $9k (escrowed taxes and Insurance)

Cash left in the deal= $14,250

  • Math behind it: (18,750-9k)= $9,750 (24k-9,750) = $14,250
  • In other words, I was able to walk with a check for $9,750 even though I received $18,750 cash out from the bank. After my initial investment of $24,000- $9750 (check) leaves me with $14,250 left in deal as mentioned above.
  • The house could conservatively sell for $220,000 in its current state. If you were to put a traditional 20% down you would be $44,000 out of pocket w/o closing costs instead of $14,250. THAT is the power of the BRRRR.

Monthly Debt Service

PITI= $1,501

Income: $2,775

Monthly Cash flow before expenses: $774

What did I learn?

Always, Always, Always have a conservative ARV. The appraisal part of the process is the only part that is completely out of your control. Another human is determining your properties value and it is completely subjective. It still boggles my mind that we do not have a automatized system for appraisals yet.

Don’t be scared to fire your contractor at any point in the process. I would personally rather pay a higher rate for a contractor that does not eat up my time/money and can execute the job correctly.

I will most likely use the delayed financing technique described in the forums on my next BRRRR.

Trying to find a lender who does not require seasoning and still has a competitive rate proved to be a challenge

DO NOT let you emotions get the best of you. It's a business, treat it like one. If I didn't get so angry with my REFI lender who changed his terms from 80% LTV to 75% at the last minute- I would be left with a 30 yr fixed rate @5.96% instead of 6.6%.

It still costs money to complete the BRRRR. You need working capital and should have reserves for the unexpected.

What’s next?

I plan on holding onto this asset. Since completely the BRRRR process, I honestly think it is one of the best methods in REI to scale and build wealth. It is NOT a get reach quick scheme, but a way to have a cash flowing asset with all the deferred maintenance complete without having to put the traditional 20% down. I have since partnered with someone and purchased a 3 family. Our intention was to BRRRR but the lack of comps in the area have steered us towards a flip.

Please comment with your thoughts, tips, advice and stories.

Congrats! Much better than the way my 1st BRRR went..

Originally posted by @Harvey Yergin IV:

@Heshel Mangel where in OH are you located?

 Cincinnati

I currently have a multifamily deal in the pipeline with an 20 year Option 1b HAP contract on it. I am looking to connect with property management that is proficient in managing these properties in Ohio, as well as LIHTC developers who can help guide and continue to develop the property to maximize the potential of the property. I have alot of information on the property to share with someone who can guide and advise. 

I want to give a shoutout to @Vitaly Lunev who has been a great resource on this topic already. 

Thank you!

Bam! Killer opportunity for someone with those skill sets who wants to learn REI the right way, from bottom up.

@Michael Ealy I think the videographer might need a second hand as a bodyguard. I am available, Ha!

@Ryan Slicer What area is this if I may ask? How large is the property in size and units? When you walked the property - what did you find? You will want to see the financials of the property - current and historical. You will want to know the basic components of the property, especially the big ticket items - roof, foundation, exterior, electrical, piping. Can this are attract the type of tenants you want, for the price you think? What would it take to get it there - look at comparable properties. 

Hope that helps. Feel free to connect and send a message if I can be of any value. 

Investment Info:

Large multi-family (5+ units) buy & hold investment in Cincinnati.

Purchase price: $450,000

2 buildings, with 10 units in each building, totaling 20 units. Purchased all cash by financial partner, in the process of putting financing on the property which will give us the opportunity to renovate and ultimately re-tenant the property at market rents.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

Low risk investment, as the property is pretty much already at its worst performance. This gives us the opportunity to renovate and revitalize the property - giving it a strong tenant base and increasing the value of the property.

It is located on a good street in a below average area, on a corner lot visible to many people. One property at a time we will clean up and revitalize this area.