All Forum Posts by: Mike M.

The PM already explained what's happening but the OP wants to see a copy of the letter sent to the tenant. That smacks of distrust or micro-management.

I have this discussion with my owners before I accept the job. If they hire me to manage a property, they hire me to manage the property. I am not going to "partner" with someone that wants to be involved in every decision, particularly when the owner has very little experience compared to me. If you want to be that involved, go find one of those hungry discount managers desperate for the work.

I’m shocked you’ve grown to such a large size with that attitude. If asking for copies of notices and documentation means that you get triggered or micromanaged that doesn’t sound like a productive partnership to me. Maintaining records and copies of documents for retention purposes for a property I own is prudent business practice, a self managed HOA with ten units even knows this. I couldn’t imagine telling my attorney that my property manager doesn’t feel comfortable sharing notices and material communication to me. Wow!

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Quote from @Russell Brazil:

No I would not expect my property manager to bother me with small repairs like a broken garage door. Thats literally why Im paying them is to deal with that stuff so I dont have to.

A new garage door today is $4,000. You don’t want to be aware of a $4,000 claim on a property you own?

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Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Quote from @Mike M.:

I'll ignore what's happening in your situation and explain how it would work in mine.

Tenant breaks the garage door. I would immediately notify the tenant - in writing - that they are responsible for the repair. I would give them suggested vendors, a consequence for failing to complete, a deadline to complete the work, and notice that I will inspect to verify the work is done to my satisfaction.

After notifying the tenant, then I would contact the owner (phone or email, depending on their personal preference and my time) and let them know what happened and how I'm addressing it.

That's it. The owner doesn't need to see my letter or listen to a recording of my phone call or get an update every day. I tell them my plan and I will update them if (a) the plan is completed, or (b) there is a deviation from the plan. For example, the tenant may tell me they can't afford to pay for a $2,500 replacement door, so I'll negotiate a payment plan (my PM Agreement authorizes me to negotiate on the owner's behalf) and then I will update the owner on that change. Because a payment plan is spread over a period of time, I would keep the owner updated regularly until the plan is complete.

Again, I operate this way because I'm detailed, everything is documented, I'm confident in my process, and my owners know I operate with their best interest in mind every time. Your mileage may vary.

Whether the landlord wants to see the letter or not should ultimately be up to the landlord not you. Granted this is your business and you can run it as you see fit.

I view a property management company as an outsourced employee, which means I should be managing them to my expectations. And if they aren’t meeting my expectations then they should be fired. No different than any other member of my team, doesn’t matter if you’re a contractor, accountant, lawyer etc.

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Quote from @Stephanie Walker:

Absolutely not. You have every right to want to be involved. This is your house. However, some PM companies aren’t as transparent - especially bigger ones. I would read your PM agreement. I personally don’t have anything written regarding repair processes because that can be pretty situational but my owners are always aware of costlier issues, myself and my team are open books and they all have access directly to me or my husband/co-owner.

You bring up really good points and I'm grateful for your feedback on this. At the end of the day, I guess what I'm trying to understand, is what I'm asking for atypical for a property manager? These are single family homes that are worth anywhere from $500k-$1.25M, rented on a long term basis to renters that are paying a lot of money so there is a standard of care that I'm expecting for myself and renters-- over what I would expect from a 1 bed / 1 bath renting for $750/month (no dig to anyone who owns these, in fact I wish I had more of these).

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Quote from @Stephanie Walker:

I recommend setting a time to chat with your PM and set expectations for communications that work for both of you.

Most of my owner clients want less communication. They hear from me once a month when they receive their statements and they hear from me if/when there is a non-emergent issue beyond $500+. I have some owners that prefer to keep in pretty constant communication and that’s okay too.

When I take over management, I treat the homes like my own. I make decisions with the owner’s best interest in mind, first and foremost. My owners get to know me in the process and most of them trust me right off the bat to handle things as I see fit. I don’t like being micro-managed but understand that some owners need that extra reassurance and I’m happy to give that to them.

Thanks Stephanie. Is wanting insight into what work orders are outstanding, documents/notices they are sending tenants about non-compliance, or trying to understand how they are going to manage the process of a broken shower glass door ($2500) by a tenant micromanaging?

I would think it’s SOP for a PM.

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Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

I'm getting conflicting messages here. You say that you want to be hands off and let the PM handle things, but then you're upset they won't give you a copy of a letter? That smacks of micro-management.

But I clearly don't know the whole picture. It's important that you schedule a time with the PM to cover expectations and boundaries. Find out how they prefer to communicate, when you can expect communication, and when they can run the operation without you bothering them. It's different with every PM and owner.

I'm a very "in charge" operation. I know how to manage rentals better than most landlords, so I have a hard conversation with owners up front that I expect them to leave me alone. I communicate with owners when there's a change in their income stream or when I need their permission to do something. Otherwise, I operate each property as if it were my own, always keeping the owner's best interests in mind. It works well because I proactively communicate in a manner that instills confidence in my owners.

@Nathan Gesner - glad you chimed in and am going to ask you to please clarify.

I have no issues with what you state regarding letting the PM run the show (that is indeed why I hired him) — but shouldn’t I have insight into what’s going on with my property?

Maybe it’s the commercial lender in me, but I think it’s good business practice to retain, or at the very least have access to, all notices and documents that were given to the tenant. After all, they are representing me and are my hired agent- and I may need these documents for legal proceedings against the tenant.

It also would be nice to see open work orders etc. What I’m asking for is pretty simple, a window into understanding what’s happening at my investment property.

If a tenant were to cause $2500 damage to a shower glass door - would you provide a noncompliance letter to the tenant and give them an opportunity to fix it, or would you take the reigns and fix it yourself and bill the tenant (to @Adam Bartomeo’s point)?

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread - let’s keep em coming!

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Hey guys,

I've been self-managing for 5 or so years now but recently turned over the PM on a couple properties to a local property management in town. I'm so use to being involved in the day-to-day business of the property management side of things so I'm struggling to understand how much the new property manager should be communicating with me and how often.

As an example, I had a tenant break a garage door recently (drove into the door on accident). Only reason i found out is because the tenant notified me, not even the property manager. In speaking with the property manager she issued the Tenant a 14 day noncompliance letter to purchase and repair the garage door on his own. At the end of the 14 day period it would be my choice to fix the door and charge him or to take other measures.

When i asked her if she would send me a copy of the noncompliance letter to the tenant, she said she wouldnt do that unless this goes to court.

Does that sound normal to you?

I totally value and want a property manager to take the day-to-day management off my hands, but on issues with tenant damage and I would like to be kept up to date on matters, as well as have copies of all notices provided to the tenants for my own record keeping.

Lastly, when i try and call them to speak to my property manager 99% of the time I wind up having to submit a note in their portal and wait for a call back.

As to to the new garage door that will be installed by the tenant, I wish they would be more involved, giving the tenant some options of companies to call, and to walk them through the repair process.

Am i wrong in any of these thoughts or concerns about my current PM---or---do i need to let the property manager do their thing and learn to take a step back?

I'd be curious to hear from you all how involved a property manager keeps you into your properties.

Many thanks!

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Hey guys,

When i asked her if she would send me a copy of the noncompliance letter to the tenant, she said she wouldnt do that unless this goes to court.

Does that sound normal to you?

Lastly, when i try and call them to speak to my property manager 99% of the time I wind up having to submit a note in their portal and wait for a call back.

Am i wrong in any of these thoughts or concerns about my current PM---or---do i need to let the property manager do their thing and learn to take a step back?

I'd be curious to hear from you all how involved a property manager keeps you into your properties.

Many thanks!

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Quote from @Nathan James:

I owned and self managed a restaurant for 10 years even though I had the chance to hire and manage out during. It was at that time that I realized in a brutal way the concept of opportunity cost.

Now I apply that to real estate. If you are stuck in the business you're not running the business as an owner, you're really a technician and employee of that business.

If you want to be an owner, great, learn to delegate. Letting go of that slice of control is hard but once you do it's quite freeing which is hard to put a price on in my opinion.

You must have read e-myth by Michael Gerber!

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Kansas City, Missouri

Any banks out there still offering helocs on investment properties in Arizona? Thanks guys (and gals)!

1 Vote

All Forum Posts by: Mike M.

Mike M. has started 27 posts and replied 67 times.

Post: How much should a PM involve Landlord?

Post: How much should a PM involve Landlord?

Post: How much should a PM involve Landlord?

Post: How much should a PM involve Landlord?

Post: How much should a PM involve Landlord?

Post: How much should a PM involve Landlord?

Post: How much should PM involve landlord?

Post: How much should a PM involve Landlord?

Post: Self Manage or Hire PM?

Post: Investment Property HELOC